"It was a great win, a deserved win"

[Jim Smith 2,325]

1 minute ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Yeah but you're away to one of the better teams in the league. Smash and grab is fine. If that was Rotherham or Sheff Wed's then fine to complain, but it wasn't. It was a perfectly acceptable performance and a very good result bearing in mind the opposition.

I don’t agree it was an acceptable performance I’m afraid but we will have to agree to disagree. For me it was another lucky win that papers over the cracks and will allow them to carry on in denial for longer. Play that way every week (which we do) and you will lose 9 times out of 10 against any reasonable side. And Hull aren’t that great anyway. 
 

I agree it was a very good result. 

[canarybubbles 1,924]

4 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

He's literally in an impossible position. That was a good away win against a team playing well. You can't expect to turn up and dominate teams on their own patch, especially good teams like Hull. The fans are getting a bit silly with this now, I know loads want him out, but at least be fair about it. Nothing wrong with last night as an away performance and result.

First of all, let me say of course I am glad we won last night and it was a solid away performance, although a rather hairy experience for anyone watching it.

But it's not sustainable in the long term, is it? Next season Rowe will probably be gone. Also Sara may be. Even Sargent.

We need something in place that will support us and take us forward when this happens. A system, a style. Something more than backs-to-the-wall because we may no longer have any get-out-of-jail cards. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,057]

1 minute ago, canarybubbles said:

First of all, let me say of course I am glad we won last night and it was a solid away performance, although a rather hairy experience for anyone watching it.

But it's not sustainable in the long term, is it? Next season Rowe will probably be gone. Also Sara may be. Even Sargent.

We need something in place that will support us and take us forward when this happens. A system, a style. Something more than backs-to-the-wall because we may no longer have any get-out-of-jail cards. 

Worry about next season when we get there. We might have signed four top class players from nowhere by then and win the league. 

I agree it's not Farke-ball but it's not as bad as people make out.

[nu_matik 167]

7 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Ah, but - apparently, per the EDP we ‘somehow scraped to a 2-1 victory’ and ‘relied on luck’ to hold onto our lead.  And per Sky we should have had a definite red card.  For me, Dimi’s challenge was never enough for a red card, there wasn’t an ‘action’ in the elbow and had it been given it’d have been 100% rescinded. 

 

True, he was throwing his arm out to shield, a risk, but the player moved differently to how  Dimi thought he would and was lower and caught him in the head. I don't think it was malicious or overly intentional. A yellow all day.

We kicked them about, they did the same, we just looked uglier doing it. 

Glad to see us doing it to be honest.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,435]

Yup. It was cràp display with terrible substitutions and Delia was drunk. And we , sorry they (I’m so dispirited I’ve confused myself) didn’t deserve anything from the game and Jon Rowe isn’t that good anyway because he gets told to drop back and “goes missing” 

Wagner should have the guts to come out and say so and I think we should give the points back. 

[lake district canary 4,539]

21 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

This was the kind of win we wouldn't have got under Farke.

I'm not letting you get away with that. We had countless wins in the championship that showed that kind of fight and determination against the odds, especially in his first promotion season.

[TheGunnShow 5,951]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm not letting you get away with that. We had countless wins in the championship that showed that kind of fight and determination against the odds, especially in his first promotion season.

Not when we were on the back foot like that, struggling to keep the ball.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

44 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

First of all, let me say of course I am glad we won last night and it was a solid away performance, although a rather hairy experience for anyone watching it.

But it's not sustainable in the long term, is it? Next season Rowe will probably be gone. Also Sara may be. Even Sargent.

We need something in place that will support us and take us forward when this happens. A system, a style. Something more than backs-to-the-wall because we may no longer have any get-out-of-jail cards. 

This is a beautiful illustration of someone completely losing the plot as far as beliefs about style is concerned.

Style is a product of tactics and strategies that work to the skills and attributes of your players. Necessarily, that means if your players change then your style will probably have to change for them to get wins, which are the primary objective of your team in a game of football.

I suspect what you mean is we need a style that looks exactly like what we had when we had Pukki as lone striker, Buendia in midfield, and Daniel Farke at the sidelines in the two championship winning seasons, excluding their premier League season. As we have completely different people with different strengths and weaknesses, this isn't realistic.

If a backs to the wall style gives your players the best chance of a win, that's the style they should play.

Edited January 13 by littleyellowbirdie

[lake district canary 4,539]

29 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Not when we were on the back foot like that, struggling to keep the ball.

Towards the back end of that first promotion season, there were performances that we were under the cosh and not in control, but somehow managed to draw or win against the odds. Sheffield Wednesday at home - even Millwall and Forest at home we were not in control, but managed to find a way. 

[CDMullins 436]

29 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is a beautiful illustration of someone completely losing the plot as far as beliefs about style is concerned.

Style is a product of tactics and strategies that work to the skills and attributes of your players. Necessarily, that means if your players change then your style will probably have to change for them to get wins, which are the primary objective of your team in a game of football.

I suspect what you mean is we need a style that looks exactly like what we had when we had Pukki as lone striker, Buendia in midfield, and Daniel Farke at the sidelines, excluding their premier League season. As we have completely different people with different strengths and weaknesses, this isn't realistic.

I think we just want some sort of attacking strategy, some philosophy, an identity and something to believe in, 

It's not like we don't have the players to do it, Stacy/Dimi are great at getting forward, when playing higher Nunez/Sara are great passers of the ball, Rowe's a class act, Sainz as shown glimpses of what he can do and Sarge is capable.

Last night we had no appetite to attack, no strategy to attack, we didn't cross the halfway line in the 2nd the and the game turned into a game of attack v defence.

Getting Hernandez on was key, he only knows one direction and that's forward, with him we travelled up the pitch, even if only for a short time he eleivated immediate danger.

Edited January 13 by CDMullins

[TheGunnShow 5,951]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

Towards the back end of that first promotion season, there were performances that we were under the cosh and not in control, but somehow managed to draw or win against the odds. Sheffield Wednesday at home - even Millwall and Forest at home we were not in control, but managed to find a way. 

We were generally on the front foot in those games though IIRC. The 4-3 against Millwall was a fighting win but crikey, we shot ourselves in the foot on occasion during that game whilst still putting them under a lot of pressure. And as for the 3-3 against Forest that was a game where on another day, as Pantilimon had a splendid game in goal for them, we could easily have won that about 8-4.

I'd actually argue the closest Farke got to this sort of win was the 2-1 against Brentford in his last game but even then, we dominated early on and were under the cosh in the second.

[CDMullins 436]

9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Towards the back end of that first promotion season, there were performances that we were under the cosh and not in control, but somehow managed to draw or win against the odds. Sheffield Wednesday at home - even Millwall and Forest at home we were not in control, but managed to find a way. 

What nonsense.

There's a difference between taking time to break a team down and being under the cosh.

Wednesday scored early and from memory Foristeri scored a worldie, we were on top all game, it just took a while to break them down.

Millwall we had 61% possession and 21 shots, they scored with 3 of their 4 shots on target.

Forest 61% possession and 27 shots

[lake district canary 4,539]

I don't think you can really compare Farkeball with Wagner's style.

36 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

We were generally on the front foot in those games though IIRC. The 4-3 against Millwall was a fighting win but crikey, we shot ourselves in the foot on occasion during that game whilst still putting them under a lot of pressure. And as for the 3-3 against Forest that was a game where on another day, as Pantilimon had a splendid game in goal for them, we could easily have won that about 8-4.

I'd actually argue the closest Farke got to this sort of win was the 2-1 against Brentford in his last game but even then, we dominated early on and were under the cosh in the second.

I'd accept that. My memory is that we were behind in both games and therefore obviously not in control. What stood out from those games was the determination, desire and togetherness to get over the line. I had that feeling watching last night, more than any game since the Farke era.  For me last night is a season changer.

[CDMullins 436]

7 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I don't think you can really compare Farkeball with Wagner's style.

I'd accept that. My memory is that we were behind in both games and therefore obviously not in control. What stood out from those games was the determination, desire and togetherness to get over the line. I had that feeling watching last night, more than any game since the Farke era.  For me last night is a season changer.

Some things never change.

Pure, blind optimism.

[hogesar 9,704]

We created the three best chances of the game and despite their possession we actually dealt with things well. I'm surprised they crossed high balls in so often as it really does play into Duffys strengths.

So it's a deserved win.

[Cowboy 197]

9 hours ago, CDMullins said:

K'in hell lads, your expectations and standards have slipped.

We were awful, couldn't get the ball, couldn't keep the ball, couldn't string 5 passes together. Couldn't transition from defence to attack. In the 2nd half we barley passed the half way line. It was essentially a game of attack v defence.

Had this of been Pep's City, and we'd scrapped a win I'd be all for it, but this is Hull City.

33% Possession. Half as many passes. 10 less shots. Goalkeeper MOM.

Shout out to Kenny and Angus, who were awesome.

But it certainly wasn't a great win to watch and we definitely didn't deserve to win.

I'd have to agree with that. The inability to keep possession time after time and the panicked defending were extraordinary - a standout performance for all the wrong reasons, somehow glossed over by a result. Fluking wins like that at a time when a new manager is the main priority is counter-productive, imho.

[canarybubbles 1,924]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

This is a beautiful illustration of someone completely losing the plot as far as beliefs about style is concerned.

Style is a product of tactics and strategies that work to the skills and attributes of your players. Necessarily, that means if your players change then your style will probably have to change for them to get wins, which are the primary objective of your team in a game of football.

I suspect what you mean is we need a style that looks exactly like what we had when we had Pukki as lone striker, Buendia in midfield, and Daniel Farke at the sidelines in the two championship winning seasons, excluding their premier League season. As we have completely different people with different strengths and weaknesses, this isn't realistic.

If a backs to the wall style gives your players the best chance of a win, that's the style they should play.

You seem to be assuming that those of us who are critical of what has happened/is happening to the club are simply hankering after the days of Farke, Buendia and Pukki, and do not recognise that with almost a totally different set of players, strategy and tactics must change.

No, we know those days are gone. What I think many of us are saying is that we have not found a style which brings out the best in the players we now have, or, alternatively, that we have not bought the right players to fit the style that we want to play. For example, if we are going to base our desired style on a hard pressing game that depends on being fitter that most other sides in this league, hiring a large number of older players and sending out teams with an average age of 29 does not seem very logical. Similarly, backs to the wall does not seem to make a great deal of sense if we feel that we have one of the best squads in the league on paper, including two of the best forwards (Sargent, Rowe), and one of the most creative midfielders (Sara).

My overall argument is that we have failed to find an effective structure since we abandoned 'Farkeball', or at least a structure which matches the squad we currently have, and we have relied, and are still relying, on the individual talent of players like Sara and Rowe to compensate for that lack of a structure, or perhaps, under Wagner, a structure which is inappropriate.

   

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

11 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

He probably said something different in the EADT where he can be even more negative.

I'm past caring what they say. The Pink Un was once a great publication with a rich history remembered fondly at Duncan's Club and SOTB. Now it's just clickbait.

Used to be written by sports journalists. Now it's kids at keyboards 

[Branston Pickle 3,665]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Used to be written by sports journalists. Now it's kids at keyboards 

This is the first paragraph of the EDP “match report”.  Quite unbelievable - you might often expect a modicum of bias towards the local side being reported on, but certainly not from the plank writing there.  There was no more “luck” involved than any other game. 

“Norwich City somehow scraped a 2-1 victory against play-off chasing Hull City at the MKM Stadium, relieving some pressure on head coach David Wagner but thanks significantly to luck.”

This is the Hull Daily Mail report - actually far more realistic. And, oddly, no mention of “luck”.  Seems our dreadful “reporters” could learn something from them but then they don’t have the same agenda.  
“Hull City's inconsistent - and frustrating - form continued on Friday night with a 2-1 home loss to Norwich City in front of a packed-out MKM Stadium. Jonathan Rowe's fine solo goal in the first half condemned the Tigers to a second consecutive Championship defeat, before Christian Fassnacht stepped off the bench to add a second a minute from time, and though Tyler Morton crashed in to give the hosts hope, it was too late.  Aaron Connolly was forced off early on after taking a clattering from goalkeeper Angus Gunn, and a terrific effort from Rowe again had the Canaries in front 10 minutes from half-time, though City's defending left a lot to be desired in the build-up.  City dominated much of the contest again, but it was a familiar tale of plenty of possession without really creating much in the way of shots on target against a Norwich side struggling for consistency of their own. Even with Liverpool loanee Fabio Carvalho in the starting XI, the Tigers lacked that cutting edge.”

 

 

Edited January 13 by Branston Pickle

[Capt. Pants 4,260]

If we had played how Hull did our manager would have been ripped to shreds. No quality in the final third, speculative crosses right on Duffy's head.

There was a brief spell in the 2nd half when they played through but as I said in the matchthread they ran out of ideas.

We scored 2 good goals and Idah really should have scored late on and Kenny was free at a near post corner which he should have done better with before that.

Hull really can't complain they lost but we often have the reverse argument on here when we lose a game we should have won.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,562]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

My overall argument is that we have failed to find an effective structure since we abandoned 'Farkeball', or at least a structure which matches the squad we currently have, and we have relied, and are still relying, on the individual talent of players like Sara and Rowe to compensate for that lack of a structure, or perhaps, under Wagner, a structure which is inappropriate.

   

More and more, I think that style was simply a reflection of a handful of players with particularly outstanding abilities well beyond what's normal for the Championship. If your players are comparable abilities to their peers in the league, then I think it figures that the approach, or style, will have to change according to what you're facing. To put it bluntly, putting style before results is putting the cart before the horse.

[The Bunny 310]

@littleyellowbirdie gets to the nub of it. People complaining about how fans "standards have slipped" because we applaud a battling away win need a dose of reality. This simply isn't the squad which conquered the championship so easily. If you haven't adjusted your expectations by now then you haven't been paying attention. 

There's been a huge regression in player quality started in summer '21 to this day. We've sacked two managers since then and it hasn't made the blindest bit of difference to the direction of travel. 

Farke was a great manager at this level, but he needed those players to be successful. Look at his win record without Buendia in the team for evidence of that.