Wagners post match interview on Sky

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

Blaming everyone but himself for this 

[mrdi 373]

“It wasn’t about the tactics or the shape”.

Good grief. 

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

1 minute ago, mrdi said:

“It wasn’t about the tactics or the shape”.

Good grief. 

Clueless, utterly clueless isnt he? 

[mrdi 373]

1 minute ago, Ken Hairy said:

Clueless, utterly clueless isnt he? 

Also, “I think our players were shocked when Ui-Jo went off”

I think they were probably more shocked you let Onel stay on, David.

[Branston Pickle 3,683]

7 minutes ago, mrdi said:

“It wasn’t about the tactics or the shape”.

Good grief. 

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[S_81 840]

1 minute ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

Well if he did nothing to change it up then the tactics are at fault aren’t they?

[Branston Pickle 3,683]

Just now, S_81 said:

Well if he did nothing to change it up then the tactics are at fault aren’t they?

You can read, you don’t appear to understand.

[Indy 3,315]

3 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

I have to agree and I believe we’re averaging conceding nearly 2 goals a game! Only Rotherham are worse! That’s dreadful and the one constant is Duffy & McLean, Duffy is done, he’s lost his game and McLean isn’t a holding midfielder! We get overrun through midfield, we really do miss a good CDM!

[Ian 1,136]

12 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

So you're saying the tactics were wrong then?

[mastoola 185]

11 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

who's fault is that    switch to plan b and cover your own half and play counter attack

[Helsinki canary 243]

Blamed it on Hwang goin off saying we were good the first 30min but hwang went off after 16min, the team folds on any pressing, Jamal nearly scored on 29min with their first attempt and that rattled the team and they collapsed in 3 minutes to 2-2 , second half, nothing you can say other than utter rubbish, Wagner and his fellow clowns had no idea what to do  - yes the players are poor but the coaches are even worse

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

14 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well, maybe it wasn’t - to be fair we were going ok at 2-0, but after that were totally Incapable of passing to our own players and let Watford have the ball far too readily in dangerous areas. There’s no formation that can cope with half a team playing like rank amateurs, and he did nothing to change it up.

The obvious answer when Hwang went off was solidifying the midfield with either Nunez or Gibbs, absolutely bonkers to stick on another striker and one he admitted pre match was not up to 2 games in 3 days yet. That in itself should be enough to issue his P45 in the morning.

[Mr Tea 105]

I’m no football genius but even my poor knowledge of football showed a very disjointed team in that second half .

so I waited to see what he would say and to me he looked and sounded void of ideas , thoughts and tbh looked like he knows what’s coming in the next x weeks.

 

[Ian 1,136]

I was quite positive we might turn the corner tonight, given previous wins and perhaps a little momentum.

I don't think anybody can justify how bad that actually was. There was a huge sense of inevitability even before Watford's first goal, and it was clear to literally everyone watching except our coaching staff that we were getting obliterated.

It is really, really very concerning we kept things the same for so long even though we had so many warning shots. 

The fact that Fassnacht stayed on despite contributing nothing defensively makes me wonder if Wagner has actually lost the dressing room and is playing those who show a sense of loyalty, because I cannot for the life of me work out why he and Hernandez stayed on as long as they did otherwise.

We really looked like we had no idea or game plan despite being 2-0 up after 20 minutes.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ian

[Mason 47 1,395]

Looks a bit like a man who is short-circuiting. I don't think he really knows what he can do to stop this rot and at this point probably knows he won't.

I can see that Hwang going off might knock us for a few minutes but how is it every time a striker gets injured our entire concept of football collapses?

[CardiffCanary 131]

Fassnacht was utterly woeful tonight 

as was onel

everyone could see it bar him

Holding out for 2-2 was embarrassing 

[rock bus 854]

He has clearly lost the plot and probably knows he has no future at the club.

Weird the way he kept saying individual mistakes cost us the goals…that’s been true in many games but not todays. We were just very poor in every aspect and his tactics and subs didn’t help.

Trying to pin it on the shock of Hwang having to go off was just bizarre.

He really needs to go.

[mastoola 185]

Just now, rock bus said:

He has clearly lost the plot and probably knows he has no future at the club.

Weird the way he kept saying individual mistakes cost us the goals…that’s been true in many games but not todays. We were just very poor in every aspect and his tactics and subs didn’t help.

Trying to pin it on the shock of Hwang having to go off was just bizarre.

He really needs to go.

you would think so but with our board .........

[Branston Pickle 3,683]

9 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Looks a bit like a man who is short-circuiting. I don't think he really knows what he can do to stop this rot and at this point probably knows he won't.

I can see that Hwang going off might knock us for a few minutes but how is it every time a striker gets injured our entire concept of football collapses?

Hwang going off did seem to be  the defining moment of the game, weird as that may be.  But we’re (meant to be) a professional outfit, and as you say we ought to be able to cope. 

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

8 minutes ago, Ian said:

 

The fact that Fassnacht stayed on despite contributing nothing defensively makes me wonder if Wagner has actually lost the dressing room and is playing those who show a sense of loyalty

Right, I've deliberated posting this on here as people will just accuse me of lieing etc (not that im bothered about that), and I won't mention which player as that breaks a confidence but I know quite well the dad of one of our players and was talking to him about a month ago, he said there is a split dressing room right now, with accusations of Wagner having favourites and also concerns at the quality of some of the new players with special emphasis of that point being a rant about Shane Duffy. 

Bare in mind though that's just me talking to the players dad not the player himself, but it didn't surprise me one bit.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

16 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

The obvious answer when Hwang went off was solidifying the midfield with either Nunez or Gibbs, absolutely bonkers to stick on another striker and one he admitted pre match was not up to 2 games in 3 days yet. That in itself should be enough to issue his P45 in the morning.

Hwang's injury was the turning point of the game but only because he got the replacement horribly wrong.

I have no confidence in any of our coaching team if they did not at least challenge that decision. There's not a cats chance in hell Barnes was the answer.

Did you notice the strapping on his knee? Utter lunacy bringing him on.

[Ian 1,136]

6 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Right, I've deliberated posting this on here as people will just accuse me of lieing etc (not that im bothered about that), and I won't mention which player as that breaks a confidence but I know quite well the dad of one of our players and was talking to him about a month ago, he said there is a split dressing room right now, with accusations of Wagner having favourites and also concerns at the quality of some of the new players with special emphasis of that point being a rant about Shane Duffy. 

Bare in mind though that's just me talking to the players dad not the player himself, but it didn't surprise me one bit.

Very interesting. It is very difficult to find another logical argument as to why Fassnacht was kept on tonight.

The guy has good quality, but the game was crying out for someone capable of pressing and breaking fast tonight, particularly after we went 2-0 up. The fact he stayed on the pitch despite looking totally shot and providing zero cover (and I mean absolutely zero) down our right, when we did have options off the bench, is very very odd.

Wagner is clearly not an idiot so there has to be a strategic reason he kept Fassnacht on despite Watford having an absolute pile-on on Stacey 2v1 for the majority of the first half. I don't consider myself a football tactician but this was so glaringly obvious things must be less than harmonious behind the scenes.

[Branston Pickle 3,683]

12 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Right, I've deliberated posting this on here as people will just accuse me of lieing etc (not that im bothered about that), and I won't mention which player as that breaks a confidence but I know quite well the dad of one of our players and was talking to him about a month ago, he said there is a split dressing room right now, with accusations of Wagner having favourites and also concerns at the quality of some of the new players with special emphasis of that point being a rant about Shane Duffy. 

Bear in mind though that's just me talking to the players dad not the player himself, but it didn't surprise me one bit.

 To be fair when you’re on a poor run like we have been on, there’s always likely to be a degree of unrest in the squad - so this doesn’t sound that unlikely.  Those not playing will be saying “give us a go” and shouldn’t be happy when they aren’t given a chance.

[Ken Hairy 3,780]

4 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

 To be fair when you’re on a poor run like we have been on, there’s always likely to be a degree of unrest in the squad - so this doesn’t sound that unlikely.  Those not playing will be saying “give us a go” and shouldn’t be happy when they aren’t given a chance.

Oh I totally agree with that,  could also be his dad giving more his views than his sons, but the more this season goes on, the more I'm inclined to believe there's more than a tinge of truth to it. I was slightly surprised how full in he went about Duffy though.

[Ian 1,136]

8 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

 To be fair when you’re on a poor run like we have been on, there’s always likely to be a degree of unrest in the squad - so this doesn’t sound that unlikely.  Those not playing will be saying “give us a go” and shouldn’t be happy when they aren’t given a chance.

You've got to admit it's bizarre that Onel and Fassnacht were kept on as long as they were today though, and really difficult to justify from a sporting perspective.

It isn't unusual for someone who has lost the dressing room to play those who show loyalty and "buy-in" as opposed to those who could do the best job for the squad.

[zema abbey football genius 36]

2 minutes ago, Ian said:

You've got to admit it's bizarre that Onel and Fassnacht were kept on as long as they were today though, and really difficult to justify from a sporting perspective.

It isn't unusual for someone who has lost the dressing room to play those who show loyalty and "buy-in" as opposed to those who could do the best job for the squad.

Onel was truly woeful. You can never say he’s not giving his all, but he had an absolute stinker…

Not that anyone covered themselves in glory…he was just glaringly bad. 

[Ian 1,136]

1 minute ago, zema abbey football genius said:

Onel was truly woeful. You can never say he’s not giving his all, but he had an absolute stinker…

Not that anyone covered themselves in glory…he was just glaringly bad. 

Honestly think Fassnacht was worse. Marginally perhaps, but Watford couldn't believe their luck down that side.

[zema abbey football genius 36]

Just now, Ian said:

Honestly think Fassnacht was worse. Marginally perhaps, but Watford couldn't believe their luck down that side.

It was a close run thing between the 2 of them…ahaha

I’d like to see the pass success rates of the two of them - all I remember from the second half was Onel either ‘passing’ the ball off the pitch or to a Watford player…

Admittedly I have tried to delete most of the second half from memory.

 

[RobJames 890]

49 minutes ago, Indy said:

I have to agree and I believe we’re averaging conceding nearly 2 goals a game! Only Rotherham are worse! That’s dreadful and the one constant is Duffy & McLean, Duffy is done, he’s lost his game and McLean isn’t a holding midfielder! We get overrun through midfield, we really do miss a good CDM!

We get over run' not through the quality of play, but the way they play. So many commentators point this out. Failing to mark players allow them the space to move the ball forward, unhindered.

A competent manager would sit the players down to watch the game, and stop the play everytime they had the ball and ask the mid pitch shufflers what they were doing. Why were you staring at the Watford player with the ball, h's going to pass to the player you are supposed to be marking.

This is not some cunning plan, just the very basics of the game. And yes they are following his instructions as you will have seen tonight, with defenders simply hoofing the ball clear rather than tip tap their way out of danger. The rights and wrongs of that are another disicussion - the point is they were doing that under instruction, just as the attempt to utlise Idahs limited ability was to hoof it past the defence for him to run on to.

We lost Venables a day ot so ago. He understood football and could instruct/motivate players at different levels. Wagner appears not to be able to do either. I suspect when Wagner took over and we had two great away wins it was because he had not imposed his ideas on the team at that point. Once he started to get players following his instructions disaster struck and we saw some of the appalling consequences....Blackpool (H), Plymouth(A).

Open attacking football which avoided tight marking saw us two goals up. It should have seen us play as Boro in the play off final. Tthere was no need to score another, just get in their faces and give them no opportunities. Instead the players who should have been on at half time, or starting in fact, came on too late.

Unfortunately we are having changes forced upon us rather than as steps forward. Webber - Knapper, Wagner - anyone. I cannot believe Annastasio of Knapper will not see why it is going so badly,

[hogesar 9,736]

1 hour ago, Ken Hairy said:

Right, I've deliberated posting this on here as people will just accuse me of lieing etc (not that im bothered about that), and I won't mention which player as that breaks a confidence but I know quite well the dad of one of our players and was talking to him about a month ago, he said there is a split dressing room right now, with accusations of Wagner having favourites and also concerns at the quality of some of the new players with special emphasis of that point being a rant about Shane Duffy. 

Bare in mind though that's just me talking to the players dad not the player himself, but it didn't surprise me one bit.

They heard me in Wymondham?!?