Worse keepers than Long?...

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Get a life and grow up a bit?

A very mature come back 👍

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,797]

It seems odd that we wouldnt trust the judgement of Millwall fans who watched him last season for 35+ odd games....just because theyre Millwall fans?!

...we saw one of those games when Sorenson's shot was allowed to squirm under his body at The Den

[Branston Pickle 3,679]

31 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It seems odd that we wouldnt trust the judgement of Millwall fans who watched him last season for 35+ odd games....just because theyre Millwall fans?!

...we saw one of those games when Sorenson's shot was allowed to squirm under his body at The Den

Maybe not, but supporters are almost always dismissive of players who leave - we do it plenty, too.  I’m more interested in giving people a chance.

At least he’s never done this https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13018490/what-even-happened-wycombe-keeper-red-faced-after-comical-blunder

Edited November 29, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[sgncfc 1,253]

15 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

That’s just so far wrong- first goal he should probably get to, but can’t be blamed for the other two: the third he made a good initial save for.

And as for quoting Millwall fans, just @&!* off.

The first was (should have been) a pretty standard save; the second was a deflection but he made no effort to move his feet or claim the cross - not just his fault, mind; the third it bounced away from him - again! Goalkeepers at this level should be saving that - at least pushing it away from danger. He got away with one almost identical shot in the first half. 

I think Gunn would have stopped the first and third.

[mrdi 373]

1 hour ago, Branston Pickle said:

Maybe not, but supporters are almost always dismissive of players who leave - we do it plenty, too.  I’m more interested in giving people a chance.

At least he’s never done this https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/13018490/what-even-happened-wycombe-keeper-red-faced-after-comical-blunder

Yet.

[PurpleCanary 5,580]

For what it's worth, I think some keepers would have got a hand to the first goal. I don't blame Long for the second. The cross in was deflected and that helped throw the defenders as well as Long. The third was a shot that ducked in just as it reached Long, and in his defence he did push it out some distance wide of goal rather than into the obvious danger area. He got unlucky in that there was a player just there, which there often would not be.

Edited November 29, 2023 by PurpleCanary

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

15 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

It’s astonishing how easy some of you think it is - he’s got no protection for the third goal after making a decent save. How is it his fault?

The reactions for the save weren't bad, but he's done nothing with the parry and this is why for me - as a goalie myself - I could agree that there's a goalie error in there. It almost looked like he's tried holding it and failed, it crept out of his hands too far just to be a pat down, and not hard enough out to be difficult for the striker following up. 

If he'd tipped it around the post or banged it out hard, we'd be calling it a decent save.

Sure, it's not as obvious an error as other goalie errors, and I do agree with those saying the defenders were slower in reacting so there's an element of team culpability, but the primary fault is that weak parry/drop.

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

The reactions for the save weren't bad, but he's done nothing with the parry and this is why for me - as a goalie myself - I could agree that there's a goalie error in there. It almost looked like he's tried holding it and failed, it crept out of his hands too far just to be a pat down, and not hard enough out to be difficult for the striker following up. 

If he'd tipped it around the post or banged it out hard, we'd be calling it a decent save.

Sure, it's not as obvious an error as other goalie errors, and I do agree with those saying the defenders were slower in reacting so there's an element of team culpability, but the primary fault is that weak parry/drop.

I agree with most of this. It's not the reactions or that it's not a decent save, the error is down to not getting the ball away from danger. That is one of the first things I coach, try to hold the ball and if you can't hold it keep it away from the opposition. Long sadly did neither.

I'm not having a dig at him, he is a back up keeper, but I can 100% say that he is kicking himself and thinks he should have done better for all 3 goals. He may not be saying that to his team mates, which is fair enough, but him and the goalkeeping coaches will know. My attitude when I dropped the odd clanger was that I shouldn't have had to make a save in the first place. If a goalkeeper is being called into action at least one player in front of them has already made a mistake.

 

 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

8 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Good for you - I’ll introduce you to the ex-pro I sit next to and you can take it up with him.

Who are you sitting next to, Andy Dibble?

 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,985]

5 minutes ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

I agree with most of this. It's not the reactions or that it's not a decent save, the error is down to not getting the ball away from danger. That is one of the first things I coach, try to hold the ball and if you can't hold it keep it away from the opposition. Long sadly did neither.

I'm not having a dig at him, he is a back up keeper, but I can 100% say that he is kicking himself and thinks he should have done better for all 3 goals. He may not be saying that to his team mates, which is fair enough, but him and the goalkeeping coaches will know. My attitude when I dropped the odd clanger was that I shouldn't have had to make a save in the first place. If a goalkeeper is being called into action at least one player in front of them has already made a mistake.

 

 

Precisely. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of instinctive saves where this is much, much harder to do and as a goalie all you can do is get a big enough piece of it. This was a reasonably well-struck shot (but not whacked as hard, or dare I say it, Hwanged in like ours 😉 ) from distance that was low, so you'd think a keeper would be happy and readily able to just tip it around the post for the corner.

I don't agree with any notion that Long was at fault for the second though. The deflection off the cross - which was very much on at the back stick anyway - made it difficult to calibrate and as it happened Long still couldn't quite get across anyway. Long played around the first goal somewhat, a classic case of a goalie's reach exceeding his grasp, and his parrying let him down for the third. Small errors in the grand scheme of things, but still there

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Precisely. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of instinctive saves where this is much, much harder to do and as a goalie all you can do is get a big enough piece of it. This was a reasonably well-struck shot (but not whacked as hard, or dare I say it, Hwanged in like ours 😉 ) from distance that was low, so you'd think a keeper would be happy and readily able to just tip it around the post for the corner.

I don't agree with any notion that Long was at fault for the second though. The deflection off the cross - which was very much on at the back stick anyway - made it difficult to calibrate and as it happened Long still couldn't quite get across anyway. Long played around the first goal somewhat, a classic case of a goalie's reach exceeding his grasp, and his parrying let him down for the third. Small errors in the grand scheme of things, but still there

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying he was at fault for the second, it was a horrible deflection. However, I think even without the deflection the ball is still dinked over his head and Watford's number 9 is still heading into an empty net. Slightly better positioning was required, half a yard further back. It would have still take a Banks vs Pele or Seaman vs Peschisolido type save, but he would have given himself a better chance. Although from what I've seen of Long, he is not the best shot stopper, he's unlikely to pull of that "worldy".

[norfolkngood 1,087]

jon Sheffield would win worst hair cut 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

3 hours ago, Iwans Big Toe said:

Who are you sitting next to, Andy Dibble?

 

 

@Ken Hairy Thanks. You've made my day. I knew my dad would have found this funny but he's not been with us for 12 years. 💓

 

 

[HazzaJet 256]

I agree Long has been poor but you can’t blame the keeper for every goal conceded. I mean if a player gets one on one with the keeper and scores or a defender fouls an opponent in the box and the penalty is converted can you really blame the keeper for that? Personally I wouldn’t blame the opposition keepers for the goals Hwang scored last night and against QPR, I would blame the defenders

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

Just now, HazzaJet said:

I agree Long has been poor but you can’t blame the keeper for every goal conceded. I mean if a player gets one on one with the keeper and scores or a defender fouls an opponent in the box and the penalty is converted can you really blame the keeper for that? Personally I wouldn’t blame the opposition keepers for the goals Hwang scored last night and against QPR, I would blame the defenders

As I have said, the goalkeeper is the last line of defence. If he is called into action, one or more of the 10 players in front of him have made a mistake. When you are the last line of defence though you have to be perfect. None of us are, I get that and I'm not singling Long out, he has been sold a bad bill of goods, just like the previously mentioned Jon Sheffield. Neither were terrible goalies though, but both were slightly out of their depth as replacements for a Gunn.

 

 

[Six Pack 94]

23 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Listen to them all you want - I prefer to trust my own judgement and not a kneejerk reaction. The guy I sit next to at FCR is an ex keeper and he reckons Long has done little wrong. I’ll trust him over you lot any day. 

We could have either won or drew the game yesterday if we had a better keeper. Yes Watford had a lot of the play but the 3 goals they scored were all from long range, although we were 2nd best to the ball the team keep them at arms length. Long didn't make an unforce error or a massive blunder as such so didn't do anything wrong ! Problem is he's a "B" grade keeper and a decent keeper could have saved most if not all 3 goals. 1st goal the Watford player struck it well, Long reached the ball but didn't have his hands in the right place to save the shot; 2nd goal a case of not being able to command his 6 yard box (a pre-requisite for any  professional goal keepers) with the high looping ball into the area; 3rd goal once again any keeper with any ability would have pushed the ball wide - I know it was hit hard and was moving in the air but the decent keepers would have prevented the goal. His shortcomings resulting in all three goals - his lack of natural goalkeeper instinct was highlighted for all to see.

The inability of our keeper lost us the game. 

[alex_ncfc 664]

Yet again people making Gunn out to be some sort of class act when he is in fact bang average. Having Gunn in goal instead of Long wouldn't have changed much at all, if anything, in recent weeks. 

What we are really missing at the moment is a keeper in the Krul mould, someone with presence and a bit of character, something the aforementioned keepers severely lack. 

[Walcombe canary 69]

Onana - £48 million ?

[Segura 84]

My initial reaction to Watford's first goal was 'what a strike', but when you saw it in slow motion Long does get something on it and like many have said, I think he will be disappointed not to have kept it out - it wasn't right in the corner.

The second goal is just a rum'un, Stacey should do a bit better but once the cross gets deflected it's just sods law where it lands, no blame for Long there from me.

As for the third, there is nothing wrong with parrying the ball as long as you get it out danger and he simply doesn't do this.

In summary, I've seen nothing from Long to suggest he's anything more than a half decent LG1 keeper and a Champs backup, so we are where we are, I suppose.

[hogesar 9,722]

13 hours ago, alex_ncfc said:

Yet again people making Gunn out to be some sort of class act when he is in fact bang average. Having Gunn in goal instead of Long wouldn't have changed much at all, if anything, in recent weeks. 

What we are really missing at the moment is a keeper in the Krul mould, someone with presence and a bit of character, something the aforementioned keepers severely lack. 

This is demonstrably untrue and easily proven by every stat that shows Gunn is one of the best shot-stoppers at this level of football. He has other weaknesses but he's in a completely different league to Long.

[Midlands Yellow 4,044]

Billy Casper perhaps?