WSL Wages

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

The Arsenal Women's coach has said that some players are struggling in the WSL on as little as £20K. 

I find this puzzling as the minimum wage for a 23 year old is £21K. So if the wages are low then that is down to the clubs. Its not a matter for the Equal Pay Commission.

[KeiranShikari 1,425]

I'm surprised it's so high, honestly. Bar 1 side attendances are Vanarama level and season tickets can be bought in the WSL for around £50.

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/womens-super-league/attendances

https://www.footballwebpages.co.uk/national-league/attendances

https://www.90min.com/posts/wsl-ticket-prices-how-you-can-watch-chelsea-arsenal-man-city-man-utd-more

If all the twitter types that come out of the woodwork when there's a women's tournament on actually attended games games I'd suggest they'd be earning a lot more money. 

[Newtopia 518]

7 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The Arsenal Women's coach has said that some players are struggling in the WSL on as little as £20K. 

I find this puzzling as the minimum wage for a 23 year old is £21K. So if the wages are low then that is down to the clubs. Its not a matter for the Equal Pay Commission.

For the minimum wage this is about right, so no legal issue.  Depends on how many hours they do, and their age - also for a full time employee over 23 doing 37 hours a week, the yearly salary is just than 20k, 

52x37x10.42=£20,048

A lot of the players are under 23, so even less.

These rates are for the National Living Wage (for those aged 23 and over) and the National Minimum Wage (for those of at least school leaving age). The rates change on 1 April every year.

	23 and over	21 to 22	18 to 20	Under 18	Apprentice
April 2023	£10.42	£10.18	£7.49	£5.28	£5.28

If the clubs use woman’s football as a separate stand alone P&L, they need to pay everyone but the very best players as little as possible to balance the books. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

Yeah, as Newtopia said, there's no way those girls work 37.5 hour weeks!

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

I'm surprised it's so high, honestly. Bar 1 side attendances are Vanarama level and season tickets can be bought in the WSL for around £50.

8 of the 12 WSL teams have a higher attendance than the average Vanarama attendance (which is about half the average WSL attendance).

On top of that, TV audiences are incomparably higher for WSL fixtures, and they enjoy an £8 million a year Sky deal as opposed to a £300,00 BT deal.

[dylanisabaddog 4,958]

50 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

8 of the 12 WSL teams have a higher attendance than the average Vanarama attendance (which is about half the average WSL attendance).

On top of that, TV audiences are incomparably higher for WSL fixtures, and they enjoy an £8 million a year Sky deal as opposed to a £300,00 BT deal.

It costs more than £20 at Kings Lynn these days so comparisons are pretty much irrelevant. 

 

 

 

 

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,757]

Can someone give me a comparison on average attendances during WSL matches and Premier League matches to see if the wages should be the same?

 

 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

The thing is that it is not really a fair or level comparison to look at the men’s vs women’s game. 

The women’s game is in a strange position, random games will sell out places like Stamford Bridge or Emirates, but picking out today’s Chelsea v Liverpool game as an example - two top 5 sides - they had 12800.  Not a bad attendance at all, but not one that could support huge salaries.  Also, the WSL only has 12 teams in it, there can’t be any sort of equivalence in a 22-game season.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Yes, its nothing to do with the men's game. I started the post because I was surprised to see that the wages could be that low. The Arsenal coach was complaining and I believe that it isn't football' problem but women's football problem. If the clubs are paying so little I assume its because they don't have the income.

[Paul101 93]

21 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The Arsenal Women's coach has said that some players are struggling in the WSL on as little as £20K. 

I find this puzzling as the minimum wage for a 23 year old is £21K. So if the wages are low then that is down to the clubs. Its not a matter for the Equal Pay Commission.

I think you will find its 20k a month

had one of the womans superleage players on radio 2 saying the average wage was 10-20k a month now and it was a stuggle for some players to cover all the travel expenses ect  I lost all interest at this point and thought she needs to live in the real world

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Paul101

[Canaries north 151]

24 minutes ago, Paul101 said:

I think you will find its 20k a month

had one of the womans superleage players on radio 2 saying the average wage was 10-20k a month now and it was a stuggle for some players to cover all the travel expenses ect  I lost all interest at this point and thought she needs to live in the real world

 

 

I would be very very surprised. 20k a year is what was quoted. My guess is the player was meaning to say year but said month by accident. 

[Canaries north 151]

In my mind the women's game has been asked to run before it could walk. The money put in by Sky and the BBC probably breaks even on the cost to produce with all that goes into covering a game compared with the viewing figures. The problem is the average gates mean at the moment most clubs are having to be funded by the men's teams. Also one of the reason the Premier league makes so much money is international tv rights. I would love to see the day when the women's game is bringing in as much money as the men's  but unless people start attending and paying the silly money we pay to see the men's game how can they pay more money. I believe 400k is the most a female footballer has been sold for. That is less than the record in the men's game in 1968.

[Yobocop 1,105]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Can someone give me a comparison on average attendances during WSL matches and Premier League matches to see if the wages should be the same?

 

 

2	Liverpool	9,278
3	Chelsea	8,635
4	Bristol City	6,849
5	Aston Villa	6,476
6	Manchester United	5,870
7	Manchester City	3,974
8	Brighton & Hove Albion	3,840
9	Leicester City	2,925
10	Tottenham Hotspur	1,893
11	Everton	1,674
12	West Ham United	1,329

look at someone like Leicester ladies for instance their average attendance is 300 people more than Forest Green Rovers men’s side and Troy Deeney is on 2,6k a week (135k a year) 

as someone else said you can’t compare it 

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, Yobocop said:

2	Liverpool	9,278
3	Chelsea	8,635
4	Bristol City	6,849
5	Aston Villa	6,476
6	Manchester United	5,870
7	Manchester City	3,974
8	Brighton & Hove Albion	3,840
9	Leicester City	2,925
10	Tottenham Hotspur	1,893
11	Everton	1,674
12	West Ham United	1,329

look at someone like Leicester ladies for instance their average attendance is 300 people more than Forest Green Rovers men’s side and Troy Deeney is on 2,6k a week (135k a year) 

as someone else said you can’t compare it 

Why'd you leave Arsenal out? Looking likely to get well over 40k, maybe even upwards of 50k, at the Emirates versus Chelsea in a few weeks time.

And Deeney is on almost three times the average WSL salary and on way more than the highest paid Leicester player. Despite playing in front of fewer supporters.

I'm not a supporter of equal pay at club level (my opinion differs when it comes to payments for international fixtures and tournaments), but I think a woman earning £20k a year playing in the top league in the country can reasonably claim to be underpaid.

[RobJames 883]

The problem is, behind the hype, this is no more than a fad, which will inevitably settle back to what it was a decade or so back.

At the moment a few teams benefit immensely by the association with a well known PL club, and I suspect those attending these games come through via the mens games. How many would a team based in Essex called the Basildon Birds attract ?  And how much revenue would they generate ?

The admission at the top game might surprise many - Chelsea, Adult £9, kids £1. Realitively cheap for a couple of hours of entertainment. What percentage of the games are watched by kids ?  There is just not the demand for this stuff. Kids will play football as nowadays it means dressing up and being part of a group. Though as much like scouts and guides, interest drops off at around age 12, especially for girls. Charge the same as the mens games and see then what the attendance figures are.

To talk of Arsenal v Chelsea is to actually back this point, rather than what I suspect the poster imagines. Olympic games will attract sell out stadiums, but is what is on offer anything that much better or different to, say, a European athletics meeting at Crystal Palace ?I doubt. It is about attending something special, as with the Queen Mums funeral that is the attraction. Much as with a final at Wembley, it is the occasion that attracts rather than the football itself.

admission

[Fen Canary 853]

7 hours ago, Yobocop said:

2	Liverpool	9,278
3	Chelsea	8,635
4	Bristol City	6,849
5	Aston Villa	6,476
6	Manchester United	5,870
7	Manchester City	3,974
8	Brighton & Hove Albion	3,840
9	Leicester City	2,925
10	Tottenham Hotspur	1,893
11	Everton	1,674
12	West Ham United	1,329

look at someone like Leicester ladies for instance their average attendance is 300 people more than Forest Green Rovers men’s side and Troy Deeney is on 2,6k a week (135k a year) 

as someone else said you can’t compare it 

So the average attendance for the league is similar to that of the men’s 4th division. The ladies also only play around half the matches the men do, and as others have pointed out admission to get in is considerably cheaper.

All this considered the ladies are probably being paid reasonably well for doing something they love

[dylanisabaddog 4,958]

47 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

So the average attendance for the league is similar to that of the men’s 4th division. The ladies also only play around half the matches the men do, and as others have pointed out admission to get in is considerably cheaper.

All this considered the ladies are probably being paid reasonably well for doing something they love

A season ticket for WSL is around £60 for adults and £30 for children. 

I think Webber said that the costs mean that Norwich would need 5,000 people to make it worth opening Carrow Road. 

The wage bill for Arsenal Ladies in 21/22 was £4.3m. League gate receipts would have been around £600k and TV income £650k.

Those figures are ridiculous. The female game is being subsidised by the mens game to a huge degree but they still want more. 

[Terminally Yellow 2,471]

7 hours ago, RobJames said:

The problem is, behind the hype, this is no more than a fad, which will inevitably settle back to what it was a decade or so back.

At the moment a few teams benefit immensely by the association with a well known PL club, and I suspect those attending these games come through via the mens games. How many would a team based in Essex called the Basildon Birds attract ?  And how much revenue would they generate ?

The admission at the top game might surprise many - Chelsea, Adult £9, kids £1. Realitively cheap for a couple of hours of entertainment. What percentage of the games are watched by kids ?  There is just not the demand for this stuff. Kids will play football as nowadays it means dressing up and being part of a group. Though as much like scouts and guides, interest drops off at around age 12, especially for girls. Charge the same as the mens games and see then what the attendance figures are.

To talk of Arsenal v Chelsea is to actually back this point, rather than what I suspect the poster imagines. Olympic games will attract sell out stadiums, but is what is on offer anything that much better or different to, say, a European athletics meeting at Crystal Palace ?I doubt. It is about attending something special, as with the Queen Mums funeral that is the attraction. Much as with a final at Wembley, it is the occasion that attracts rather than the football itself.

admission

What an absolute load of nonsense. And "Basildon Birds" is sexist. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Those figures are ridiculous. The female game is being subsidised by the mens game to a huge degree but they still want more. 

The men's game is being subsidised by human rights abusers and/or oil barons to a huge degree but they still want more.

[canarydan23 4,060]

It's still so weird how triggered people get at women's football becoming increasingly successful.

[dylanisabaddog 4,958]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's still so weird how triggered people get at women's football becoming increasingly successful.

People aren't "triggered", whatever that's supposed to mean. If anything, it's you that seems incapable of dealing with some quite straightforward facts. 

[Fen Canary 853]

32 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

It's still so weird how triggered people get at women's football becoming increasingly successful.

What a childish response. Nobody is triggered by it, they’re merely responding to those who imply that the women earn less than the men due to sexism rather than simple economics. Constantly wailing how hard done by the female players are, when in reality if the game had to stand on its own two feet they’d all be part time at best gets rather tiresome

[Midlands Yellow 4,019]

5 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

A season ticket for WSL is around £60 for adults and £30 for children. 

I think Webber said that the costs mean that Norwich would need 5,000 people to make it worth opening Carrow Road. 

The wage bill for Arsenal Ladies in 21/22 was £4.3m. League gate receipts would have been around £600k and TV income £650k.

Those figures are ridiculous. The female game is being subsidised by the mens game to a huge degree but they still want more. 

I’ve just checked the prices for Leicester Ladies. Every home match at the KingPower and £42 for an adult season ticket. I paid a quid more than that to watch Norwich play Leicester at CR in 2015. I’m surprised attendances are so low when they practically give tickets away. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Midlands Yellow

[Ulfotto 640]

Back to the original point anyone would struggle to live on 21k a year and live in and around the Arsenal stadium and training ground. Particularly if said contract forbids you from having a second job.

As for post game rants it’s a lot better than Arteta blaming the officials for doing there jobs.

[Yobocop 1,105]

12 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Why'd you leave Arsenal out? Looking likely to get well over 40k, maybe even upwards of 50k, at the Emirates versus Chelsea in a few weeks time.

And Deeney is on almost three times the average WSL salary and on way more than the highest paid Leicester player. Despite playing in front of fewer supporters.

I'm not a supporter of equal pay at club level (my opinion differs when it comes to payments for international fixtures and tournaments), but I think a woman earning £20k a year playing in the top league in the country can reasonably claim to be underpaid.

Looked like an anomaly so left it but as I said in my closing gambit you can’t compare the two, as others have pointed out it costs a lot less to get in a WSL game 

[Yobocop 1,105]

3 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

What an absolute load of nonsense. And "Basildon Birds" is sexist. 

Absolutely agree Cambridge, there have been some examples of teams not associated with mainstream teams doing really well in the higher echelons of the female game 

[Branston Pickle 3,669]

8 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Absolutely agree Cambridge, there have been some examples of teams not associated with mainstream teams doing really well in the higher echelons of the female game 

Not so much recently - the sides attached to bigger PL teams have started to take over, which is a shame.  The second tier does have Durham and Lewes in it. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Yobocop 1,105]

9 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Not so much recently - the sides attached to bigger PL teams have started to take over, which is a shame.  The second tier does have Durham and Lewes in it. 

Yes again agreed - who could forget notts county’s forced relegation to accommodate Man City (I think) - politics 

[alex_ncfc 662]

2 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I’ve just checked the prices for Leicester Ladies. Every home match at the KingPower and £42 for an adult season ticket. I paid a quid more than that to watch Norwich play Leicester at CR in 2015. I’m surprised attendances are so low when they practically give tickets away. 

Lots of the time they DO give the tickets away - and people still don't want them. 

Despite what the Sky's and BBCs of the world (who now insist on covering the bbc.co.uk/football homepage with more stories about the women's game than the men's) tell you all, no one gives a damn about women's football - the "quality" is diabolical, the way they try and play it like mens game is cringe worthy and any arguments about equal pay with the mens game when you consider the abysmal money their game brings in automatically fall flat on their face. 

Come on, let's be real here. 

[canarydan23 4,060]

3 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

People aren't "triggered", whatever that's supposed to mean. If anything, it's you that seems incapable of dealing with some quite straightforward facts. 

Eh? What facts would those be? I think you're getting a little confused.