Where’s all the money gone?

[essex canary 504]

The football authorities are moving towards a financial control of Wages plus Amortisation with the latter being the allocation of transfer fees over seasons.

How would we have done with this measure over recent seasons? 

Compared to Burnley we have spent more on Wages in 10 seasons despite them staying in the PL 5 times versus our 0. They have invested more in transfer fees typically a net £15 million per season in cash terms relative to our 0 over the past 8 years.

On average their efficiency and success ratio is greater. The Webbers were happy to gamble to boost Stu's chances elsewhere whilst maintaining their high incomes whilst here. Where has been D&M's restraint and control? Now we are in bailout mode. Quite simple in reality.

Edited September 26, 2023 by essex canary

[Mengo 825]

4 hours ago, essex canary said:

The football authorities are moving towards a financial control of Wages plus Amortisation with the latter being the allocation of transfer fees over seasons.

How would we have done with this measure over recent seasons? 

Compared to Burnley we have spent more on Wages in 10 seasons despite them staying in the PL 5 times versus our 0. They have invested more in transfer fees typically a net £15 million per season in cash terms relative to our 0 over the past 8 years.

On average their efficiency and success ratio is greater. The Webbers were happy to gamble to boost Stu's chances elsewhere whilst maintaining their high incomes whilst here. Where has been D&M's restraint and control? Now we are in bailout mode. Quite simple in reality.

The Webbers were happy to gamble to boost Stu's chances elsewhere whilst maintaining their high incomes whilst here. Where has been D&M's restraint and control? Now we are in bailout mode. Quite simple in reality.

 

IMPOSTERS RULED WITHOUT ANY CONTROL   CALL IT GOVERNANCE. CALL IT WHAT YOU LIKE. BONNIE AND CLYDE. 

You know I truly believe that well, it’s not the hardest thing in the world to get promoted. QUOTE. STU BOY.

“So I can do it again somewhere else.”

He later added: “I won’t go in there to survive in the Premier League and you know, win a few favours and a few people slap you on the back.”🤣🤣🤣.yer a chancer big boy an utter chancer.

Referencing Delia Smith and Michael Wynn-Jones’ influence on his switch, the Norwich Sporting Director admitted: “When the opportunity came up here, my wife said you need to speak to these people, as in the owners, because she thought I would just like it. YEP, COULDN'T BELIEVE THEIR LUCK. 

CHARLATANS. 

Edited September 26, 2023 by Mengo

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

5 hours ago, chicken said:

And again, you are wrong.

Reason and passion are not mutually exclussive. Equally, 'facts' rarely line up 100% with 'passion' because relying purely upon emotion means you introduce an element that is unpredicatble and somtimes, because we are human, illogical.

What I can do is seperate the two.

If you say the club is badly run, you are talking about the whole kit and caboodle. That is evidentially incorrect when you take into account our model and what we have achieved with it.

I don't think you'll find we are any less passionate about football and on the footballing front we have, and will continue to agree on many aspects.

It's just being mature enough to understand that we don't have to agree on all of the aspects yet we can still agree on where we want the club to be.

Often the issue with some tools on here, and you know I don't mean you kg, is that if you don't agree with them 100% you don't agree with them at all.

Hence accusations of being pro-Delia or a happy clapper despite evidence to the contrary etc. 

Fair enough

[essex canary 504]

45 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Fair enough

Is it? At least the mutually exclusive bit is right but the rest?

[chicken 2,640]

On 26/09/2023 at 19:09, essex canary said:

Is it? At least the mutually exclusive bit is right but the rest?

Of course you wouldn't think it's fair would you? You're currently one of the most devisive characters on here, spreading dissonence andvtrying to turn member against member to suit your own very personal, selfish agenda. 

[Mello Yello 2,298]

[Nuff Said 5,156]

On 23/09/2023 at 18:35, TheGunnShow said:

Drink something with a high riboflavin content like an energy drink or indeed most decent soluble multi-vitamin tablets. Turns your pee fluorescent yellow.

That’s because you’re just excreting the vitamins as the dose is so ridiculously high your body can’t absorb them. Most vitamin tablets are a con.

[Big Vince 318]

On 26/09/2023 at 12:45, chicken said:

And again, you are wrong.

Reason and passion are not mutually exclussive. Equally, 'facts' rarely line up 100% with 'passion' because relying purely upon emotion means you introduce an element that is unpredicatble and somtimes, because we are human, illogical.

What I can do is seperate the two.

If you say the club is badly run, you are talking about the whole kit and caboodle. That is evidentially incorrect when you take into account our model and what we have achieved with it.

I don't think you'll find we are any less passionate about football and on the footballing front we have, and will continue to agree on many aspects.

It's just being mature enough to understand that we don't have to agree on all of the aspects yet we can still agree on where we want the club to be.

Often the issue with some tools on here, and you know I don't mean you kg, is that if you don't agree with them 100% you don't agree with them at all.

Hence accusations of being pro-Delia or a happy clapper despite evidence to the contrary etc. 

"Our model" hasn't achieved anything. Only ridicule from the national media every time we are promoted to get relegated. The model only serves the narrow interests of the owners and excludes the fans. We would have liked a cup run now and again, but as shown again last night, the owners are very happy for the club to be the valiant loser, whether it be early cup exits or prompt relegations from the EPL. Very little testosterone in and around Carrow Road these last 27 years.

[chicken 2,640]

4 hours ago, Big Vince said:

"Our model" hasn't achieved anything. Only ridicule from the national media every time we are promoted to get relegated. The model only serves the narrow interests of the owners and excludes the fans. We would have liked a cup run now and again, but as shown again last night, the owners are very happy for the club to be the valiant loser, whether it be early cup exits or prompt relegations from the EPL. Very little testosterone in and around Carrow Road these last 27 years.

As usual, much of your drivel is demonstrably false. 

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

7 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

That’s because you’re just excreting the vitamins as the dose is so ridiculously high your body can’t absorb them. Most vitamin tablets are a con.

Nothing wrong with a multi as an insurance policy, I'd say. Besides, the poster I responded to said he wanted his pee to be orange, and high riboflavin content gets it close enough.

[Nuff Said 5,156]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nothing wrong with a multi as an insurance policy, I'd say. Besides, the poster I responded to said he wanted his pee to be orange, and high riboflavin content gets it close enough.

Or you could eat properly instead, and make sure you get the benefits of things like fibre and a healthy microbiome. (My god, I sound like a joyless ****er).

[TheGunnShow 5,983]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

Or you could eat properly instead, and make sure you get the benefits of things like fibre and a healthy microbiome. (My god, I sound like a joyless ****er).

Meh, it's not joyless at all, it's sensible. I still maintain that a multivitamin as an insurance policy (rather than a replacement, which is where lots of folk go wrong IMO) is a cheap and useful back-up.

That said, I'll always go hard on magnesium as I know from experience I'm vulnerable to cramps, and if I'm training hard for races then my body will always need a bit of extra help.

[......and Smith must score. 1,355]

10 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

That’s because you’re just excreting the vitamins as the dose is so ridiculously high your body can’t absorb them. Most vitamin tablets are a con.

They may be a con but if you think they help where’s the harm ?

[essex canary 504]

7 hours ago, chicken said:

As usual, much of your drivel is demonstrably false. 

Delighted to note that many people are running in straight lines and catching up. Then again others are headless chickens running in circles.

[Badger 2,407]

On 26/09/2023 at 14:11, essex canary said:

The football authorities are moving towards a financial control of Wages plus Amortisation with the latter being the allocation of transfer fees over seasons.

How would we have done with this measure over recent seasons? 

Compared to Burnley we have spent more on Wages in 10 seasons despite them staying in the PL 5 times versus our 0. They have invested more in transfer fees typically a net £15 million per season in cash terms relative to our 0 over the past 8 years.

On average their efficiency and success ratio is greater. The Webbers were happy to gamble to boost Stu's chances elsewhere whilst maintaining their high incomes whilst here. Where has been D&M's restraint and control? Now we are in bailout mode. Quite simple in reality.

I'm not sure that we are in "bailout mode" and tbh, none of us can be until we see the accounts.

Other than that I agree with most of what you say although, I suspect we may have different conclusions. To my mind the comparison with Burnley (and others) demonstrates that "the model" per se is not the cause of instant relegation when we reach the PL: the fact that others have stayed up with lower expenditure is pretty good evidence for this. 

If this is accepted, we need to look elsewhere for the cause of our painful and embarrassing PL performance in recent seasons. My belief is that it is a playing style issue: we need to be far more pragmatic, defensive, physical and direct to stay up. If this is correct, the next question would be, "is this a price worth paying?"

[Midlands Yellow 4,033]

Can we all please just get on and be respectful for crying out loud. 

[......and Smith must score. 1,355]

6 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Can we all please just get on and be respectful for crying out loud. 

**** off ( wink )

[chicken 2,640]

8 hours ago, essex canary said:

Delighted to note that many people are running in straight lines and catching up. Then again others are headless chickens running in circles.

Right, sure, yeah. The one who runs around in a circle screaming about his shares on every thread is the one actually running in a straight line because he believes in conspiracy theories too. No surprise to me, not after attacking Zoe Webber for daring to be in a position where she might get paid money AND be a woman - whatever next. 

I think it is becoming evidently clear why absolutely no one at the club, or other groups related to the club, actually want to deal with you. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,033]

Keep it friendly lads.

[Corbs1 90]

Nothing as nasty as a a civil war. I’ve never sensed any real mutual respect between supporters of our club, and have often wondered if other clubs have more solidarity; maybe not. It’s something that’s bothered me over the years; I’ve tended to put it down to a subtle feeling of inferiority that people have in outlying regions. 

[chicken 2,640]

8 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Can we all please just get on and be respectful for crying out loud. 

Apparently not because now someone is kicking off that two other forum posters actually behaved like respectable humans and came to a reasonable conclusion. So upset are they that they wanted to reignite the discussion even though they weren't involved in it.

Even a box of frogs are staring at this madness in disbelief. 

We can't even get decent trolls anymore. What happened to Smudger? 

[Midlands Yellow 4,033]

9 minutes ago, chicken said:

Apparently not because now someone is kicking off that two other forum posters actually behaved like respectable humans and came to a reasonable conclusion. So upset are they that they wanted to reignite the discussion even though they weren't involved in it.

Even a box of frogs are staring at this madness in disbelief. 

We can't even get decent trolls anymore. What happened to Smudger? 

I remember him from over a dozen years ago. Was he a moderator on here? 

[chicken 2,640]

7 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I remember him from over a dozen years ago. Was he a moderator on here? 

No, he was an staunch Delia Out protagonist and would go to the ground before games and stand there on his own shouting stuff and then go home at kick off.

He'd attack anyone on here that didn't agree 100% with his views. Which were often amusing for the level of conspiracy belief needed for them all to add up.

[essex canary 504]

54 minutes ago, chicken said:

Right, sure, yeah. The one who runs around in a circle screaming about his shares on every thread is the one actually running in a straight line because he believes in conspiracy theories too. No surprise to me, not after attacking Zoe Webber for daring to be in a position where she might get paid money AND be a woman - whatever next. 

I think it is becoming evidently clear why absolutely no one at the club, or other groups related to the club, actually want to deal with you. 

'Right, Sure, Yeah' comes across as a better first line than telling someone that they are wrong. After all this is a debating medium.

And Yes the Club did operate much better with a Chairperson than under the current arrangement and there is nothing misogynistic about that freedom of expression.

[Big Vince 318]

23 hours ago, Badger said:

I'm not sure that we are in "bailout mode" and tbh, none of us can be until we see the accounts.

Other than that I agree with most of what you say although, I suspect we may have different conclusions. To my mind the comparison with Burnley (and others) demonstrates that "the model" per se is not the cause of instant relegation when we reach the PL: the fact that others have stayed up with lower expenditure is pretty good evidence for this. 

If this is accepted, we need to look elsewhere for the cause of our painful and embarrassing PL performance in recent seasons. My belief is that it is a playing style issue: we need to be far more pragmatic, defensive, physical and direct to stay up. If this is correct, the next question would be, "is this a price worth paying?"

This is a very, very pertinent point as it drives to the heart of the issue, which is that Norwich fans don't want to watch the kind of football that is required in order to stay in the EPL. So, unless we have a new owner who is going to bounce fans around because he knows what he is doing compared to the numpties who don't, then the EPL will always be a forlorn aspiration.

It just goes to prove that fans should neither get anywhere close to running football clubs, nor have any influence whatsoever.

The model Norwich ought to be aiming for is therefore Palace. A similar sized club that has found a playing style that works in the EPL. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Big Vince

[essex canary 504]

1 hour ago, Big Vince said:

This is a very, very pertinent point as it drives to the heart of the issue, which is that Norwich fans don't want to watch the kind of football that is required in order to stay in the EPL. So, unless we have a new owner who is going to bounce fans around because he knows what he is doing compared to the numpties who don't, then the EPL will always be a forlorn aspiration.

It just goes to prove that fans should neither get anywhere close to running football clubs, nor have any influence whatsoever.

The model Norwich ought to be aiming for is therefore Palace. A similar sized club that has found a playing style that works in the EPL. 

The Ebbsfleet example comes into play here. At one point they had an arrangement that involved the fans contributing to team selection. Totally barmy. Nonetheless just recently they have increased attendances by 50% or so by showing the value of proper fan engagement on the more pragmatic level that we seemed to be promoting 20 or so years ago. In that sense, and that sense only, fans should very much have influence on such issues as matchday environment, pricing strategy etc.

[TIL 1010 4,779]

30 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The Ebbsfleet example comes into play here. At one point they had an arrangement that involved the fans contributing to team selection. Totally barmy. Nonetheless just recently they have increased attendances by 50% or so by showing the value of proper fan engagement on the more pragmatic level that we seemed to be promoting 20 or so years ago. In that sense, and that sense only, fans should very much have influence on such issues as matchday environment, pricing strategy etc.

Is that the same Ebbsfleet that have played 6 home games this season with attendances between 1304 and 2063 that you wish to gauge their fan engagement against Norwich with regular crowds around 26K ?

That is a whole new level of stick right there. I assume that 50% increase in attendances is reflected in those most recent games this season.

Edited September 30, 2023 by TIL 1010

[nutty nigel 7,566]

16 hours ago, essex canary said:

 

And Yes the Club did operate much better with a Chairperson than under the current arrangement and there is nothing misogynistic about that freedom of expression.

So was that one particular chairperson or all of them?

[essex canary 504]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Is that the same Ebbsfleet that have played 6 home games this season with attendances between 1304 and 2063 that you wish to gauge their fan engagement against Norwich with regular crowds around 26K ?

That is a whole new level of stick right there. I assume that 50% increase in attendances is reflected in those most recent games this season.

Pre pandemic around 900.

The AGM question? How about why do we have so many empty seats on matchdays alongside a season ticket waiting list? Can look to Schalke04 average attendance 61,320 for the answer to that one. Sell all the tickets at the start of the season then create a supporter swap shop 2 weeks before. Should be enough extra revenue in that to guarantee say £2 value per season per share for minorities to compensate them for the lack of share rise over 21 years. Otherwise just dock it from the over-inflated ED salary which costs around 10% of Plymouth's costs for employing around 350 people last season and which today will doubtless result in another set of programme notes which will merely echo those of the Head Coach.

Where is the money gone? Why does anyone have to ask? One of Baldrick's Cunning Plans could work a treat.  

        

[Midlands Yellow 4,033]

7 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Pre pandemic around 900.

The AGM question? How about why do we have so many empty seats on matchdays alongside a season ticket waiting list? Can look to Schalke04 average attendance 61,320 for the answer to that one. Sell all the tickets at the start of the season then create a supporter swap shop 2 weeks before. Should be enough extra revenue in that to guarantee say £2 value per season per share for minorities to compensate them for the lack of share rise over 21 years. Otherwise just dock it from the over-inflated ED salary which costs around 10% of Plymouth's costs for employing around 350 people last season and which today will doubtless result in another set of programme notes which will merely echo those of the Head Coach.

Where is the money gone? Why does anyone have to ask? One of Baldrick's Cunning Plans could work a treat.  

        

You could get eight seats together in the River End this morning. So easy to get tickets in recent seasons.