Kenny McLean Most Under appreciated player of recent Times

[BigFish 1,988]

8 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Nailed it. Fine for the Champs in a good team but in an average team he isn't going to drag you over the line. Get rid.

I think you miss @shefcanary's point, it is not that we should get rid but we should keep because it will help usget promotion. He is a classic inbetweener, only when we are in the EPL is it worth signing an upgrade in his position. Even then he is probably worth keeping for the squad.

[Worthy Nigelton 1,080]

28 minutes ago, BigFish said:

I think you miss @shefcanary's point, it is not that we should get rid but we should keep because it will help usget promotion. He is a classic inbetweener, only when we are in the EPL is it worth signing an upgrade in his position. Even then he is probably worth keeping for the squad.

I didn't miss the point. I just elaborated on it.

[hogesar 9,772]

12 hours ago, Number9 said:

Tbf he always apologises when he gives the ball away.

He's always apologising. 

This is another one who's never been able to admit he's wrong 😅😅

[LaUnionCanary 86]

On 23/08/2023 at 04:23, hogesar said:

Four managers and their collective coaching teams,  so bordering on 12 professional coaches with experience watching players week in week out and different levels, many of them Premier League, deemed Kenny our most reliable option in midfield.

Hes now been made captain too.

But ignoring two title wins and the above you must remember the amount of experts on here who've said for 5 years or so that no midfield with Kenny in can expect to get playoffs at this level.

Remember all those posters, as they might well need reminding for a third time after this season.

In which they'll make every excuse imaginable and rinse and repeat.

To be fair we have never got into the playoffs with Kenny in the team, but we have got auto promotion twice.

[repman 636]

Kenny is fine, he's a good player at this level when we are the side that usually has most of the ball. The fact some people moan about him leads to others lauding over him, the truth is ultimately somewhere in the middle. 

I think it's fair to say that his current role isn't the best role for him, but he might be the best option for the team there. Last season we were far too easy to play through and that no doubt left him with problems but even still I think he has a tendency to jump out at players and as a result get beaten pretty easily.

This year he has alongside him a player who has looked completely dominant in every phase of the game so far, that should in turn make Kenny's job a bit easier.

[Indy 3,323]

Like others I don’t rate McLean anywhere near as highly as others, I’ve always said consistency is always questionable, he’s prone to mistakes which ultimately lead to goals or chances to the opposition.

On his day he can be outstanding and he’s definitely a good utility player to have I the squad. His attitude has never been questioned but to say he’s underrated is not true!

This season we have pretty much played a system which has suited all the players and it’s so noticeable that Sara has stepped his game up to take the pressure off McLean, it’s easier to look good in a confident team which everyone is performing really well.

He’s decent enough but in my view Sorensen or Gibbs when fit could step into McLean position and probably play as well given the current squads level of performance. It’s a good place to be and long May it continue!

[shefcanary 2,492]

Wagner's view of Kenny from today's presser:

"A lot of people doubted if Kenny can play as a 6, but he has done great since I came in. He is a proper leader, he does exactly what’s needed. Very emotional as well, but he’s improved massively."

Wagner must be reading this thread in his spare time?

[jonnyace1 27]

Hopefully the new Brazilian we have can get up to speed quick. He is a DM who can fill the role required and we can then use Kenny as a utility player( from the bench!).

[Unthink road 132]

Really good player. For me one of the players that are a dead cert. Last couple of seasons covering frailties in other areas. Adds drive to our game. 

[Mutley 79]

4 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Wagner's view of Kenny from today's presser:

"A lot of people doubted if Kenny can play as a 6, but he has done great since I came in. He is a proper leader, he does exactly what’s needed. Very emotional as well, but he’s improved massively."

Wagner must be reading this thread in his spare time?

And this is impressive as well. 

And three of our players in the top eight. 
 

[hogesar 9,772]

11 hours ago, Indy said:

Like others I don’t rate McLean anywhere near as highly as others, I’ve always said consistency is always questionable, he’s prone to mistakes which ultimately lead to goals or chances to the opposition.

On his day he can be outstanding and he’s definitely a good utility player to have I the squad. His attitude has never been questioned but to say he’s underrated is not true!

This season we have pretty much played a system which has suited all the players and it’s so noticeable that Sara has stepped his game up to take the pressure off McLean, it’s easier to look good in a confident team which everyone is performing really well.

He’s decent enough but in my view Sorensen or Gibbs when fit could step into McLean position and probably play as well given the current squads level of performance. It’s a good place to be and long May it continue!

There is zero evidence of this. There is however, considerable evidence to the contrary. One which includes the fact that several managers have disagreed with this view.

Even your post, trying to be "fair" in your eyes, comes across as if the whole team is playing well in spite of Mclean.

Yes, Sara has started the season excellently. But that's because he has a midfielder next to him in Mclean who's currently covered more distance than any other player in the league, whilst still maintaining the same pass success % etc as Sara.

Wagner now has us playing well in a system where he's deemed Kenny the best midfielder for that 6-ish role, and even made him captain. Is he wrong? Is this the one decision that's holding us back?

I don't even rate Kenny as a premier league midfielder

But I get accused of going OTT in favour of Kenny because I point out the ridiculous bias in peoples posts, like this one baove.

 

[Indy 3,323]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

There is zero evidence of this. There is however, considerable evidence to the contrary. One which includes the fact that several managers have disagreed with this view.

Even your post, trying to be "fair" in your eyes, comes across as if the whole team is playing well in spite of Mclean.

Yes, Sara has started the season excellently. But that's because he has a midfielder next to him in Mclean who's currently covered more distance than any other player in the league, whilst still maintaining the same pass success % etc as Sara.

Wagner now has us playing well in a system where he's deemed Kenny the best midfielder for that 6-ish role, and even made him captain. Is he wrong? Is this the one decision that's holding us back?

I don't even rate Kenny as a premier league midfielder

But I get accused of going OTT in favour of Kenny because I point out the ridiculous bias in peoples posts, like this one baove.

 

Rubbish, when Sorensen had a run of games and got going he was playing really well, both at left back and midfield, his only undoing was getting injured a couple seasons ago! 
 

Gibbs has shown he’s a good player, one who with time and games again can do that job! It’s people’s opinions and mine is based on when players get in and stay fit! Not on an occasional game!

Still it’s ok not to overlook the weaknesses in one player but ok in others….in a poor team with poor management McLean looked pretty poor as any other. Attitude is one thing which too many love over talent at times! This team is playing well and of course any player will slot into a team playing with confidence easier. Never mind just because some of us don’t share the same view you go throwing bias ****e which isn’t there in my post, I just accept that both Sorensen and Gibbs are decent players and in the current set up and confident squad would look as good! My view!

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

5 seasons ago, we won the league with Tettey as the anchor in midfield, 3 seasons ago it was Skipp. Last season without a proper defensive midfielder/ McLean being asked to perform that role , we were a million miles away

Hayden was obviously identified for the job last season but was crocked from the start, the club unbelievably didnt think it needed to rectify the issue in January and thought we could muddle on with what we had.

Time will tell if we will get away without properly addressing it this season...

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Indy 3,323]

12 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

5 seasons ago, we won the league with Tettey as the anchor in midfield, 3 seasons ago it was Skipp. Last season without a proper defensive midfielder/ McLean being asked to perform that role , we were a million miles away

Hayden was obviously identified for the job last season but was crocked from the start, the club unbelievably didnt think it needed to rectify the issue in January and thought we could muddle on with what we had.

Time will tell if we will get away without properly addressing it this season...

 

It’s an interesting point, as well as McLean and others are playing, we have only really played Southampton who on paper are a top 6 team, we conceded 4 goals.

It’s definitely a great start and confidence is high, we look solid at the back, strong at the sides but it’s up front where we look like scoring goals every attack which is where we have improved ten fold on last season! 

[Walcombe canary 69]

How much did Kenny cost us ?

Well - He's well over and above Value for Money

Consistency & Personality

[BigFish 1,988]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Rubbish, when Sorensen had a run of games and got going he was playing really well, both at left back and midfield, his only undoing was getting injured a couple seasons ago! 
 

Gibbs has shown he’s a good player, one who with time and games again can do that job! It’s people’s opinions and mine is based on when players get in and stay fit! Not on an occasional game!

 

2 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

5 seasons ago, we won the league with Tettey as the anchor in midfield, 3 seasons ago it was Skipp. Last season without a proper defensive midfielder/ McLean being asked to perform that role , we were a million miles away

Hayden was obviously identified for the job last season but was crocked from the start, the club unbelievably didnt think it needed to rectify the issue in January and thought we could muddle on with what we had.

Time will tell if we will get away without properly addressing it this season...

There is nothing to address because Wagner has already addressed the issue.

With Tettey and and to a lesser extent Skipp in the team under Farke it was like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It didn't fix the issue (that we were too open and conceded too many goals), Farke accepted it, tried to mitigate it and relied on outscoring the opposition. I am confident that that the new system has addressed the issue, that we are less open, that we will concede fewer goals and that McLean is a key component of that. Neither Sorenson or Gibbs has the ability to put in the hard yards in what that position requires and the positional acumen necessary. We better hope McLean stays fit because the issue now is lack of cover unless the Brazilian guy can be brought up to speed.

Edited August 25, 2023 by BigFish

[hogesar 9,772]

10 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

There is nothing to address because Wagner has already addressed the issue.

With Tettey and Skipp in the team under Farke it was like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It didn't fix the issue (that we were too open and conceded too may goals), Farke accepted it, tried to mitigate it and relied on outscoring the opposition. I am confident that that the new system has addressed the issue, that we are less open, that we will concede fewer goals and that McLean is a key component of that. Neither Sorenson or Gibbs has the ability to put in the hard yards in what that position requires and the positional acumen necessary. We better hope McLean stays fit because the issue now is lack of cover unless the Brazilian guy can be brought up to speed.

I think Gibbs has the engine for it so it's if the rest can be coached into him.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

Can see Gibbs as a natural McLean replacement - I think McLean's solid, but he does have a knack of charging for things that aren't on and compromising the shape of the team in the process. That makes him pretty damn useful in a team that has a good press though, as McLean's best attribute is his gas tank.

10 minutes ago, BigFish said:

 

There is nothing to address because Wagner has already addressed the issue.

With Tettey and Skipp in the team under Farke it was like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It didn't fix the issue (that we were too open and conceded too may goals), Farke accepted it, tried to mitigate it and relied on outscoring the opposition. I am confident that that the new system has addressed the issue, that we are less open, that we will concede fewer goals and that McLean is a key component of that. Neither Sorenson or Gibbs has the ability to put in the hard yards in what that position requires and the positional acumen necessary. We better hope McLean stays fit because the issue now is lack of cover unless the Brazilian guy can be brought up to speed.

Not sure about the bit underlined. Gibbs was the one who played all two hours of a pre-season friendly this time out. Lungi might not have the pace to pull it off but Gibbs and McLean are two players who, for me, have the gas tank as their biggest strength.

[BigFish 1,988]

2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think Gibbs has the engine for it so it's if the rest can be coached into him.

 

2 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Can see Gibbs as a natural McLean replacement - I think McLean's solid, but he does have a knack of charging for things that aren't on and compromising the shape of the team in the process. That makes him pretty damn useful in a team that has a good press though, as McLean's best attribute is his gas tank.

Not sure about the bit underlined. Gibbs was the one who played all two hours of a pre-season friendly this time out. Lungi might not have the pace to pull it off but Gibbs and McLean are two players who, for me, have the gas tank as their biggest strength.

I'll give you both that Gibbs is both young and energetic so he may well grow into the role. It is just last season he looked a bit lost when asked to play it while McLean took to it straight away.

[TheGunnShow 6,027]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

 

I'll give you both that Gibbs is both young and energetic so he may well grow into the role. It is just last season he looked a bit lost when asked to play it while McLean took to it straight away.

Not wrong, but still a bit harsh - McLean's an established player at this level, Gibbs is a youngster making his way. But agree with you that he could grow into the role.

I'd argue his athleticism gives him every chance of doing so.

[Indy 3,323]

And it’s all opinions! McLean has the position and rightly so on his performance but to write off both Gibbs and Sorensen when both have in the past had a run and looked more than cat of matching McLean.

Certainly this start, Barnes tying up the defenders along with Sargent hard work then Sara has pretty much been the top performing midfielder it’s easy Ro see a big difference in the team! To measure Gibbs and Sorensen fairly they need to play in this Wagner team! As long as McLean stays fit and keeps it up it’s his spot!

But the measure of the past seasons McLean was as rubbish as the rest! My point is that he’s not underrated at all most posters and fans love him! I’m not one of those! He’s just a decent player who does a good job at this level and a model pro!

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

 

There is nothing to address because Wagner has already addressed the issue.

With Tettey and and to a lesser extent Skipp in the team under Farke it was like a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. It didn't fix the issue (that we were too open and conceded too many goals), Farke accepted it, tried to mitigate it and relied on outscoring the opposition. I am confident that that the new system has addressed the issue, that we are less open, that we will concede fewer goals and that McLean is a key component of that. Neither Sorenson or Gibbs has the ability to put in the hard yards in what that position requires and the positional acumen necessary. We better hope McLean stays fit because the issue now is lack of cover unless the Brazilian guy can be brought up to speed.

You can only say if the issue has been 'addressed' or not at the end of the season ,where we can see if this approach has been succesful..or not

At the moment 3 games (2 of which vs poor Hull and Millwall teams) is too early to say. We did also concede 4 vs one of the better teams

We need to see a larger sample.

If it turns out that Hull and Millwall are standard run of the mill (or better still, two of the better sides on this league)  then all well and good.

If however this approach is nulified and punished by the better teams then there is every chance it would certainly cost a top 2 spot and possibly top 6. That's not 'addressing'

Edited August 25, 2023 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[BigFish 1,988]

On 25/08/2023 at 09:35, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

You can only say if the issue has been 'addressed' or not at the end of the season ,where we can see if this approach has been succesful..or not

At the moment 3 games (2 of which vs poor Hull and Millwall teams) is too early to say. We did also concede 4 vs one of the better teams

We need to see a larger sample.

If it turns out that Hull and Millwall are standard run of the mill (or better still, two of the better sides on this league)  then all well and good.

If however this approach is nulified and punished by the better teams then there is every chance it would certainly cost a top 2 spot and possibly top 6. That's not 'addressing'

So another comfortable win, a £4m bid for McLean and the bid rejected. Even for you it must be getting increasingly untenable to hold to this position. Throw a goal and an assist for Idah into the mix and your head must be pretty close to exploding.

Edited August 29, 2023 by BigFish

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,805]

22 minutes ago, BigFish said:

So another comfortable win, a £4m bid for McLean and the bid rejected. Even for you it must be getting increasingly untenable to hold to this position. Throw a goal and an assist for Idah into the mix and your head must be pretty close to exploding.

...leeds wouldnt play him as a defensive mid with Ampadu there..

...and by the way, despite your claims that ,that area of thd pitch didnt need 'addressing' with extra CDM cover..what do you know?...we since went and signed Forshaw !!

[Canarywary 110]

On 25/08/2023 at 09:29, Indy said:

But the measure of the past seasons McLean was as rubbish as the rest! My point is that he’s not underrated at all most posters and fans love him! I’m not one of those! He’s just a decent player who does a good job at this level and a model pro!

 

The fact that you suggest that 1. the only reason he's looked good this season is because Sara is so good, and 2. Sorensen and Gibbs are just as good, is the epitome of underrating him! Maybe Sara has looked so good this season because Kenny is playing so well? And if Gibbs and Sorensen are just as good I image we'd probably accept £4m for either of them wouldn't we? But there are no such bids, or even interest, that I've heard of.

[wcorkcanary 4,352]

On 23/08/2023 at 15:38, Barham Blitz said:

No - the Panda goes behind.  It famously eats shoots and leaves as well.

In this case isnt it.... Eats, shoots, and leaves. ? 

[Commonsense 652]

On 25/08/2023 at 05:40, Indy said:

Rubbish, when Sorensen had a run of games and got going he was playing really well, both at left back and midfield, his only undoing was getting injured a couple seasons ago! 
 

Gibbs has shown he’s a good player, one who with time and games again can do that job! It’s people’s opinions and mine is based on when players get in and stay fit! Not on an occasional game!

Still it’s ok not to overlook the weaknesses in one player but ok in others….in a poor team with poor management McLean looked pretty poor as any other. Attitude is one thing which too many love over talent at times! This team is playing well and of course any player will slot into a team playing with confidence easier. Never mind just because some of us don’t share the same view you go throwing bias ****e which isn’t there in my post, I just accept that both Sorensen and Gibbs are decent players and in the current set up and confident squad would look as good! My view!

A view not shared by the manager who doesn’t regularly pick Gibbs. However it’s your view, nobody can deny it -it’s just that you are wrong.

[Barham Blitz 664]

31 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

In this case isnt it.... Eats, shoots, and leaves. ? 

No.  I was merely providing some additional dietary facts relating to Pandas ...  

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...leeds wouldnt play him as a defensive mid with Ampadu there..

...and by the way, despite your claims that ,that area of thd pitch didnt need 'addressing' with extra CDM cover..what do you know?...we since went and signed Forshaw !!

I don't think anyone thinks that Forshaw is anything other than a squad player. It would be surprising if he starts more than 10 times in this years Champs, very much cover for McLean. Even if he does start very unlikely that he will be playing the CDM role - in case you haven't noticed Wagner doesn't use one in the system that has so far carried us into the automatics.

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, Canarywary said:

And if Gibbs and Sorensen are just as good I image we'd probably accept £4m for either of them wouldn't we? But there are no such bids, or even interest, that I've heard of.

By the sound of things Gibbs is more likely to play up front!

Clearly, Wagner doesn't rate Sorensen.