"Women’s football, I do not watch it. It’s of zero interest"

[Monty13 2,234]

2 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

But if there hadn't been new controversial crap it would have just resulted in more of the old controversial crap. Controversial crap is what this message board thrives on. Even if it's made up controversial crap like that posted by Komakino.

Nobody's interested in the big stuff basically because most of us understand controversial crap better.

Michael Bailey's a top journo, a top PUP and a top human being but I'd rate the interviews as 1 Paddy 2 Chris 3 Michael. But I accept as the Athletic is written word while the others are sound or sound and vision comparisons are limited.

 

What big stuff would you like to see discussed?

Personally I thought the suggestion his era had set the expectation here was bordering on outrageous considering we finished 8th on 8 more points and that was deemed a big enough failure for wholesale changes and his arrival. We’d literally had 4 PL seasons out of 6 when he arrived and there was no expectation?

But that’s just more controversy I suppose because he generates so much of it.

[Inch High aka Inchy.. 405]

I've never watched a game of women's football, never really been that interested.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

24 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

What big stuff would you like to see discussed?

Personally I thought the suggestion his era had set the expectation here was bordering on outrageous considering we finished 8th on 8 more points and that was deemed a big enough failure for wholesale changes and his arrival. We’d literally had 4 PL seasons out of 6 when he arrived and there was no expectation?

But that’s just more controversy I suppose because he generates so much of it.

I'm quite happy to keep discussing this nonsense.

But like I said earlier what I found interesting was the stuff on Paddy's interview about what's been going on in South America and how the relationship with Attanasio and the Brewers is shaping up particularly with data.

But I don't watch these interviews from the focus of disliking Webber or wanting him gone. I'm not a 'pound of flesh man'. It's obvious to me that Webber will be here next season and that he has the confidence of the owners and board. So the things happening that we don't normally hear about interest me far more than the controversial stuff.

Each to their own Monty.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

10 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Your "honest opinions" are not simple facts.

Leah Williamson is not rubbish at football. I live with a six year old, so I have have explaining basic, simple facts down to an art form.

I shouldn't have to do it to an old man though.

The terms 'rubbish' and 'not very good' are two different things. 

Leigh Williamson may be good at football relatively speaking but I'm afraid that doesn't mean she would get in the Dereham, Wroxham or Gorleston teams. 

Have another look at the warm up video from the European Champions League warm up. It shows you the players of one of the 2 best teams in Europe consistently failing to get a shot on target despite the fact they are under no pressure from opponents. That's not very good is it? 

Edited May 21, 2023 by dylanisabaddog

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

13 hours ago, hogesar said:

No, people are more than entitled to criticise it, as I said earlier.

I've only given my personal view in that I'm not offended by his comments. It has zero effect on my support for the club etc etc.

I have said before though, that Webber would find life much easier if he took the Neil Doncaster toe the party line style and f*ck honesty completely. It far easier to deflect and what happens is fans blame the owners for forcing him to be so diplomatic and the blame moves onto them instead.

If I was Webber, it's what I would do. Probably not even bother with these interviews in the first place.

Of course, should we get promoted this season I doubt his comments re Women's football will ever be raised again.

Yes, you've hit the nail on the head. There is no problem with me stating a negative view of womens football on this forum but Webber is in a different position to me. There is a sizeable group of supporters that don't like him and he's just handed them a stick to beat him with. There was a very easy diplomatic way of answering the question about the ladies team and it shows a worrying lack of judgement that he didn't take it.

I suspect though that he feels safe saying what he did because he knows his view is shared by the Board. That isn't an excuse for saying it though and the club could really do without this at the moment. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Haven’t had a chance to read through all of this just yet but surprised by those who think this is remotely okay? 

If I was anyone at the club remotely connected to the women’s side I would be pretty disgusted about it. As others have said, totally fair if you want to hold those views privately - and I know plenty of us do share it - but out loud in public when you’re in part responsible and working for the same entity - absolutely ridiculous! 

And blindly just praising his honesty is equally as ridiculous. Imagine he came out and started singling our individual players for their failings this season, or for having a bad attitude. We’ve seen how those kind of things have gone down with passive aggressive comments about players like Cantwell. But he’s never been this direct about something.

We can all like the honestly, but he has to be able to draw a line at anything which may be damaging to the club - and these comments aren’t exactly building a healthy positive community are they?

And it’s not like there weren’t positive comments in there. He could’ve literally just mentioned about Flo’s great work, it being great to see so many supporters there, and those players on the pitch experiencing something which will be super memorable for them - still honest clearly but not offering up any of the negativity. But no he had to throw in his own total lack of interest, the lack of quality, the fact he only does it for Flo? Not just a single comment but 3 or 4. Come on guys it’s so tone deaf! 

Imagine him coming out and saying that about the young kids teams? Or even the disabled teams? Or just any other branch of the club?

‘Yeah must admit I don’t really go for a pie before the game, the quality is so poor, but the catering staff are doing the best they can’

?????

It’s not hard to stay honest but also maybe keep some cards to your chest? We all do it in life to maintain healthy relationships with those around us. There’s nothing cathartic about this kind of negativity, it isn’t like it’s some ‘home truths’ for the women’s football team to take on board and work with. He’s just straight up insulting them. 

And to accuse MB and others of looking for a reason to be offended is just silly - not at all. I’d challenge any of those posters to find a senior member of any business who comes out and discredits an entire branch of their business like this!

If his people skills are this **** poor behind the scenes then it’s no wonder there is so much negativity at the club right now. Yeah we’ve got great infrastructure and facilities, thanks to Webber, but if the guy at the top isn’t liked by the majority I can’t see how that ever fosters a club which will all pull the same way again?? Obviously I know we have been successful in the past, but there has been much water through the bridge since then…

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

12 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

to find a senior member of any business who comes out and discredits an entire branch of their business like this!

Gerald Ratner!!! 

Edited May 21, 2023 by wcorkcanary

[Mengo 822]

22 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Gerald Ratner!!! 

Ratner joined the family business in 1966 and built up an extremely successful chain of jewellers during the 1980s, of which he was CEO. The shops shocked the formerly staid jewellery industry by displaying fluorescent orange posters advertising cut-price bargains and by offering low price ranges. The Ratners Group consisted of Ratners, H. Samuel, Ernest Jones, Leslie Davis, Watches of Switzerland and over 1,000 shops in the United States, including Kay Jewelers.

Although widely regarded as "tacky",[4] the shops and their wares were nevertheless extremely popular with the public, until Ratner made a speech addressing a conference of the Institute of Directors at the Royal Albert Hall on 23 April 1991.[5] During the speech, he commented:

We also do cut-glass sherry decanters complete with six glasses on a silver-plated tray that your butler can serve you drinks on, all for £4.95. People say, "How can you sell this for such a low price?", I say, "because it's total crap."[6]

He compounded this by going on to remark that one of the sets of earrings was "cheaper than a prawn sandwich from Marks and Spencer’s, but I have to say the sandwich will probably last longer than the earrings". Ratner made a guest appearance on UK television's BBC1 talk show Wogan, the following day after his speech, to apologise and explain his joking remark the previous day that some of his company's products were "total crap".

Ratner's comments have become textbook examples of why CEOs should choose their words carefully. In the furore that ensued, customers stayed away from Ratner shops. After the speech, the value of the Ratner group plummeted by around £500 million, which very nearly resulted in the group's collapse.[7] Ratner hired a chairman in an attempt to stabilise the situation, and was dismissed by the new company chairman in November 1992. The group changed its name to Signet Group in September 1993.[8]

Ratner's speech is famous as an example of the value of branding and image over quality. Such gaffes are now sometimes called "doing a Ratner",[9] and Ratner himself has acquired the sobriquet "The Sultan of Bling".[10] Ratner has said that his remarks were not meant to be taken seriously. He blamed what he called aggressiveness and deliberate misinterpretation by several media outlets for the severe consumer reaction.[8]

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

18 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Gerald Ratner!!! 

Fair comment 😅. I should’ve caveated - 

find a senior member of any business who comes out and discredits an entire branch of their business like this (without it causing a massive ****show)

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

9 hours ago, Yobocop said:

those who try and compare the two need to stop, the ladies are proud of their game and the woman’s game has gone from strength to strength in recent years, its never them that compare themselves against the men

I think this is one of the things that can be a bit irritating, a female pundit is on tv and the strap line underneath will be “ Karen Carey, 135 goals for England “. I think there was a point where a female player got some press because she equalled Rooneys goal scoring record. Then we had all this stuff around how the English girls brought football home. You can’t compare the two because there is such a difference in the standard of football.

I think it’s great that girls play football,but don’t compare it with men’s.

[Harry53 209]

I agree entirely with Webber, unless it's the England team.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,753]

17 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think this is one of the things that can be a bit irritating, a female pundit is on tv and the strap line underneath will be “ Karen Carey, 135 goals for England “. I think there was a point where a female player got some press because she equalled Rooneys goal scoring record. Then we had all this stuff around how the English girls brought football home. You can’t compare the two because there is such a difference in the standard of football.

I think it’s great that girls play football,but don’t compare it with men’s.

The agenda partuculatly by Sky is to promote womens football in what is a disproportionate measure against its actual popularity.

Where this affects the paying subscriber/customer is at what cost it comes at?

Only is the last couple of seasons Sky have lost Spanish football, MLS and now theyve unbelievably lost International European Championship qualifiers and previously the nations league to Premier Sports/ViPlay

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

I'm sure if Webber had come out and said he loves women's football and watches loads of it, there would be a load of people complaining that he should be spending that time scouting men's football.

He's not said he's against women's football, or he doesn't support the growth and integration of the NCFC women's team. The whole point of integrating them into the club is that they can grow their own infrastructure and specialisms.

Agree it's pretty inflammatory of The Athletic to lead with it, though.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

I see Leah Williamson is getting a runout on this thread. 
 

My daughter played in the same team as  Leah. Leah was an outstanding athlete and captained the side playing up at least a year. A great talent , very bright and had a great family who we spent some time with. 
 

I haven’t seen Leah in person for several years. If I do , I’ll be sure to mention that some old blokes from Norfolk don’t rate her, because she couldn’t get in the Gorleston team. I’m sure as an England International and Olympian , probably a multi millionaire due to her associations with Nike and Pepsi amongst others , she will be absolutely devastated. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

I'm sure if Webber had come out and said he loves women's football and watches loads of it, there would be a load of people complaining that he should be spending that time scouting men's football.

Sorry but not for me.

There is a clear middle ground between your extreme and what he actually said.

He could’ve said the exact same thing as he did but redacted all the negative comments and it would’ve been perfectly fair and no criticism would’ve followed!

He’s the kind of bloke who’d tell his son his drawing is **** and not put it on the fridge for any length of time… I guess some on here admire that he ‘tells it like it is’, bud for me there’s honesty and then there’s just being rude and disrespectful, and there’s absolutely nothing positive to come from these comments. If you were in the women’s team what would you think at it? It’s just so unnecessary. 

I don’t have an anti-Webber agenda and thought his 40 minute with the club was mostly really positive. But defending these comments is ridiculous, they’re absolutely tone deaf. 

[Kenny Foggo 1,116]

12 hours ago, Yobocop said:

Cards on the table, I run a ladies football team and have on and off for the last 20 years or so 

I know at least one of the ladies who plays for norwich city as I work with her 

webbers comments were misguided but in true style the team are laughing it off. 

those who try and compare the two need to stop, the ladies are proud of their game and the woman’s game has gone from strength to strength in recent years, its never them that compare themselves against the men.

went to knebworth fc presentation today and there were more girls teams there than boys, it’s a growing sport 

long May it continue 

That's fantastic and fair play.

All our SD had to do was show support and be positive.. he turned in to a story about himself. Just thought it was unprofessional and a bit childish to be honest.

[Yobocop 1,099]

3 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

I think this is one of the things that can be a bit irritating, a female pundit is on tv and the strap line underneath will be “ Karen Carey, 135 goals for England “. I think there was a point where a female player got some press because she equalled Rooneys goal scoring record. Then we had all this stuff around how the English girls brought football home. You can’t compare the two because there is such a difference in the standard of football.

I think it’s great that girls play football,but don’t compare it with men’s.

Agree with this, doesn’t happen in other sports 

[nutty nigel 7,535]

As long as I've ever watched it there's been women's and men's tennis side by side with much the same interest. I think now it's recognised that the women got a poor deal and there's probably more equality in the prize money.

However I never remember all this squit about the different standard. It was never the aim to have a universal standard. The aim was to be the best man or the best woman. Same sport though. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

As long as I've ever watched it there's been women's and men's tennis side by side with much the same interest. I think now it's recognised that the women got a poor deal and there's probably more equality in the prize money.

However I never remember all this squit about the different standard. It was never the aim to have a universal standard. The aim was to be the best man or the best woman. Same sport though. 

Correct Nutty . No one in their right mind would compare them? Would you rather watch Serena or Federer? As a tennis fan the answer is both. Comparison doesn’t come into it . The guy hits harder. So what? 
 

Bolt or Fraser-Pryce? 

I’d pay decent money to watch them both. 

[Yobocop 1,099]

4 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

As long as I've ever watched it there's been women's and men's tennis side by side with much the same interest. I think now it's recognised that the women got a poor deal and there's probably more equality in the prize money.

However I never remember all this squit about the different standard. It was never the aim to have a universal standard. The aim was to be the best man or the best woman. Same sport though. 

Point is they don’t compare the stats from the two genders, or at least I’ve never seen it 

Eg serena Williams has 490 aces v Djokovic’s 5662

 

[kingsway 94]

Webber certainly says what he thinks and if he doesn't have any interest in it then thats his choice!

 

Lets be honest, most of us don't have any or little interest in the womens game, although naturally I want Norwich City women and the National womens team to do well!

 

My stance on womens football is that its great that females have an organised football set up they can play in and are encouraged to play football and any sport for that matter (as anyone regardless of sex should be of course!) but I'm not going to pretend to follow it or pretend its at a similar level to mens football. We've had it rather rammed down our throats in recent times with all the media reporting and women being used as pundits. I think the popularity increase of womens football is one of the greatest marketing campaigns ever, cause like I hinted on in my previous sentence if you talk about something enough and put it out on media outlets extensively people will jump on the bandwagon especially when the equal rights issue is part of it! - Although in fairness you can't argue against a sport that can sell out Wembley!

 

For the record I've seen England ladies play at Carrow Road against Spain and went to the Nest to watch Norwich ladies play Cambridge United. The England game was a decent standard, the players are coached well and are very fit but they were over coached to the point where they were afraid to shoot and were trying to pass the ball into the net - Sounds familiar with a certain Championship mens team that plays in yellow and green! - But in reality a good Eastern Counties men team would outmuscle an international womens team. The Norwich V Cambridge game was a much lower standard than the England game. Again the outfield players were well coached and had good levels of fitness but what I did notice was the low standard of the goalkeepers who I suspect you only had hit the ball hard at the goal to score a goal. - In the reality stakes again a good Sunday League mens team would outmuscle them.

 

Back to Webber in saying what he thinks and being focused and driven, when he came to Norwich City he was a career enhancer who openly admitted he saw his Norwich job as a stepping stone to a job at a bigger club. After two seasons of poor results, poor signings and turgid play hes rather backtracked so the stepping stone mantra has gone and so has the career enhancing as hes now happy to tread water, picking up a decent wage at a club whos hierarchy seem to treat him as the gospel and his wife is part of the higher management! - Webbers past his sell by date at Carrow Road!

 

 

Edited May 21, 2023 by kingsway

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

27 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

As long as I've ever watched it there's been women's and men's tennis side by side with much the same interest. I think now it's recognised that the women got a poor deal and there's probably more equality in the prize money.

However I never remember all this squit about the different standard. It was never the aim to have a universal standard. The aim was to be the best man or the best woman. Same sport though. 

There is a Hollywood film called Battle of the Sexes, which is literally about the way women's tennis was denigrated, diminished and unfavourablely compared to men's tennis.

It's based on real events and follows Billie Jean King's battle to get proper recognition for women's tennis.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/battle-of-the-sexes-emma-stone-steve-carell-review

[nutty nigel 7,535]

6 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

There is a Hollywood film called Battle of the Sexes, which is literally about the way women's tennis was denigrated, diminished and unfavourablely compared to men's tennis.

It's based on real events and follows Billie Jean King's battle to get proper recognition for women's tennis.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/nov/26/battle-of-the-sexes-emma-stone-steve-carell-review

Yes I know. But that doesn't affect me and my experience in happily watching women's and men's tennis without wanting to compare them or trying to create a mythical universal standard.

 

 

 

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

Yes I know. But that doesn't affect me and my experience in happily watching women's and men's tennis without wanting to compare them or trying to create a mythical universal standard

But the only reason the two sports now exist in parallel is because Billie Jean King organised women's tennis move away from the establishment, founding the WTA.

At the time, like in football today, men said women's tennis was rubbish and women shouldn't be paid the same.

Billie Jean King said, we'll see about that.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Just now, Pyro Pete said:

But the only reason the two sports now exist in parallel is because Billie Jean King organised women's tennis move away from the establishment, founding the WTA.

At the time, like in football today, men said women's tennis was rubbish and women shouldn't be paid the same.

Billie Jean King said, we'll see about that.

Yes I know. I don't watch tennis now but growing up in the 60s Wimbledon was a big part of the sporting calendar with great coverage on TV. (Black & white). I had a lot of time off school and watched it with my grandmother. She loved it. She enjoyed the men's and women's games the same as did I. We never would have thought to pretend there was a universal standard. We enjoyed the best players from each sport. We never considered the idea that Manuel Santana would beat Billie Jean King or that the ladies game was somehow inferior never crossed our minds.

Although my Nan would say something like BJK could probably beat some of the men! But then she also thought she could handle Mick McManus with just a swinging handbag.

I guess now folk watch sport to see who wins the prize money and which football club has the richest owner. That was never a reason to watch when I was growing up.

 

 

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Yes I know. I don't watch tennis now but growing up in the 60s Wimbledon was a big part of the sporting calendar with great coverage on TV. (Black & white). I had a lot of time off school and watched it with my grandmother. She loved it. She enjoyed the men's and women's games the same as did I. We never would have thought to pretend there was a universal standard. We enjoyed the best players from each sport. We never considered the idea that Manuel Santana would beat Billie Jean King or that the ladies game was somehow inferior never crossed our minds.

Although my Nan would say something like BJK could probably beat some of the men! But then she also thought she could handle Mick McManus with just a swinging handbag.

I guess now folk watch sport to see who wins the prize money and which football club has the richest owner. That was never a reason to watch when I was growing up.

It sounds like you had a great nan.

Sadly, out in wider society women have had to fight for equality.

I feel we shouldn't take that for granted.

Us blokes, me included, sometimes need reminding of that.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

5 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

It sounds like you had a great nan.

Sadly, out in wider society women have had to fight for equality.

I feel we shouldn't take that for granted.

Us blokes, me included, sometimes need reminding of that.

Massive leap there buddy. My Nan was all for equality as am I. I didn't think this thread was about equality. I thought it was about Webber not enjoying the women's game. Do you think Webber is like me and my Nan in supporting struggles for equality?

Edited May 21, 2023 by nutty nigel

[Barham Blitz 653]

It was.unnecessary point of contention when even a bland comment along the lines of 'I'm not really involved but Flo is doing.a great job of developing that side of the club' would probably have sufficed.

More concerning is establishing the dangerous precedent of not going to watch a Norwich side based on a perceived lack of quality ...  Needs to be careful with that line of reasoning based on the last couple of seasons...😉

[Pyro Pete 1,897]

1 minute ago, nutty nigel said:

Massive leap there buddy. My Nan was all for equality as am I. I didn't think this thread was about equality. I thought it was about Webber not enjoying the women's game. Do you think Webber is like me and my Nan in supporting struggles for equality?

This thread can be whatever we talk about.

Webber's words were ill-considered and inappropriate for an employee, as Sporting Director, overseeing men's and women's football at a professional football club.

He was specifically asked how the club could build on the success of the women's team this season.

Why he ended up talking about how he isn't interested and considers it poor standard, only he will know.

[nutty nigel 7,535]

Just now, Pyro Pete said:

This thread can be whatever we talk about.

Webber's words were ill-considered and inappropriate for an employee, as Sporting Director, overseeing men's and women's football at a professional football club.

He was specifically asked how the club could build on the success of the women's team this season.

Why he ended up talking about how he isn't interested and considers it poor standard, only he will know.

Well, I could reply with my experiences about enjoying both women's and men's tennis equally. But it would be boring to do it yet again. 

As for Webber's opinion, he was answering a question. I'd now be interested to know whether he'd enjoy the women's game more if they were all married or if a few divorcees is what spoils it for him...