The Officially Not Official Summer Transfer Thread 2023

[Branston Pickle 3,690]

15 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Think we need one definitely but the suggestion was Sara was earmarked for that role with Kenny and sorenson 

We actually had some of our better performances last season with Kenny/Sara alternating in dropping back…indeed, people waxed lyrical about Kenny’s new lease of life up to his injury.

[Mason 47 1,403]

I think as a fanbase we need to evolve from this ardent belief in the single all-conquering defensive midfielder.

I don't disagree that the midfield needs more structure + strength, but it doesn't always have to be a Tettey/ Skipp to make that happen.

[norfolkngood 1,090]

33 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

I think as a fanbase we need to evolve from this ardent belief in the single all-conquering defensive midfielder.

I don't disagree that the midfield needs more structure + strength, but it doesn't always have to be a Tettey/ Skipp to make that happen.

Very True !! but i do not think the Players we have can do both ( if you get me )

Better midfielders can do both but i think with the quality we have there a super fit tackling CDM in there and let Mclean Sara etc do the damage further up the pitch , also the cdm can drop just in front of the CB's so they do not get pulled out of position which we see quite a bit etc 

we need a tough / real engine in that midfield to drive us up the pitch and to defend 

[norfolkngood 1,090]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

That doesn't sound at all sensible. Have we not learned from that shambolic end to last season when injuries meant we had a powderpuff midfield?

Hayden was virtually our first signing last season. Are we now saying 12 mths on we no longer need a DCM?

Sounds Crazy i thought it would be top of the list , soft centre lets us down so badly in the midfield 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,807]

Talking about midfielders.. Another Brazillian linked

https://pinkun.com/news/23611083.norwich-city-transfer-news-sao-paulo-midfielder-rodriguinho-radar/

 

[Mason 47 1,403]

15 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Very True !! but i do not think the Players we have can do both ( if you get me )

Better midfielders can do both but i think with the quality we have there a super fit tackling CDM in there and let Mclean Sara etc do the damage further up the pitch , also the cdm can drop just in front of the CB's so they do not get pulled out of position which we see quite a bit etc 

we need a tough / real engine in that midfield to drive us up the pitch and to defend 

It's definitely a massive issue in the current group but I see it as a lesser part in a bigger whole.

For example the addition of Barnes should also help the midfield problems as we couldn't retain the ball centrally up top, leading to repeated counters. This was something Stiepermann did for the Farke side very well.

I still think we will recruit in midfield but we don't want to just add a number. It is still June after all.

[chicken 2,645]

1 hour ago, Mason 47 said:

I think as a fanbase we need to evolve from this ardent belief in the single all-conquering defensive midfielder.

I don't disagree that the midfield needs more structure + strength, but it doesn't always have to be a Tettey/ Skipp to make that happen.

Yup, Fox at the base of the diamond wasn't exactly a physically dominant player was he?

[Conrad 178]

13 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I was thinking of replacing him with an experienced free agent to sit on the bench and provide cover for Gunn, because there are always ones knocking about at this time of year. I can't see anyone paying money for Krul, but he's said to be on about £2m a year in wages, so even if we sign a backup for a small fee and a £10k per week in wages it's still cheaper anyway.

If, as suggested, we need to sell to generate income to strengthen the team then sell Gunn (worth more) and keep Krull. We have two good goalkeepers and the need to strengthen other areas of the team is greater.

[Conrad 178]

2 hours ago, Soldier on said:

Think we need one definitely but the suggestion was Sara was earmarked for that role with Kenny and sorenson 

I don't think that Sara has the mindset or ability to play in a predominantly defensive role. He struggled enough last season to fulfill his defensive duties. The times that he 'lost' the player that he was supposed to marking emphasised the amount that he still has to learn before being considered a complete midfield player. Focus on his good points (attacking) and get someone else in to do the defensive bit.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,807]

20 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I don't think that Sara has the mindset or ability to play in a predominantly defensive role. He struggled enough last season to fulfill his defensive duties. The times that he 'lost' the player that he was supposed to marking emphasised the amount that he still has to learn before being considered a complete midfield player. Focus on his good points (attacking) and get someone else in to do the defensive bit.

Agreed always felt he was better off higher up the pitch.

[tricky974 61]

Now that the points system has changed allowing clubs to have two players that do not meet the points requirement do you think some of our targets will change.

Edited June 23, 2023 by tricky974

[mastoola 185]

24 minutes ago, tricky974 said:

Now that the points system has changed allowing clubs to have two players that do not meet the points requirement do you think some of our targets will change.

interesting question

[cambridgeshire canary 6,807]

Unrelated to us but gave me a laugh.. He's gone from playing at a beautiful sold out 72,000 stadium known for it's fantastic atompshere to playing for around 8000 OAP's at a bus stop in Boscombe. Does he look happy about it to you?

 

[Barham Blitz 664]

4 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

I think as a fanbase we need to evolve from this ardent belief in the single all-conquering defensive midfielder.

I don't disagree that the midfield needs more structure + strength, but it doesn't always have to be a Tettey/ Skipp to make that happen.

Given the way that Wagner has been setting up I don't think he has an out and out CDM in mind as a role.  I think the Kenny "quarterback" position is his version of that coupled with a high press. I suspect the pressing organisation will be the number one tactical priority in the close season as we were noticeably terrible at coordinating it last season and it leaves gaping holes it if it isn't done well.

Which I don't necessarily think is a good idea mind you given who we have as central midfield options - I agree with Conrad that Sara is not suited to that role - although I agree with your comment regarding the need for more midfield structure if we do go down that route. It can work, but it needs complete buy in and understanding from the whole team as well as exceptional levels of fitness and discipline and is something of a paradigm shift for this squad.

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

A more defensive set of full-backs would also alleviate the defensive midfield issue.

[mastoola 185]

33 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

A more defensive set of full-backs would also alleviate the defensive midfield issue.

No   a defensive mid that can cover that would allow the full backs to attack would be great

Edited June 23, 2023 by mastoola

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

1 minute ago, mastoola said:

No   a defensive mid that can cover that would allow the full backs to attack would be great

I would agree, but we still seem wedded to the idea of playing with wingers. So in that case I'd rather the wingers overlap and the full-backs play far more inverted.

[chicken 2,645]

2 hours ago, tricky974 said:

Now that the points system has changed allowing clubs to have two players that do not meet the points requirement do you think some of our targets will change.

I don't think this will have been much of a surprise and suspect clubs will have known about the coming changes. So I'm not sure the targets will change as I'd guess they were already looking with that in mind.

[Terminally Yellow 2,480]

The defensive midfielder is the key position in the Wagner philosophy though.

He has to have presence of mind to be able to cover gaps left by the full backs bombing forward and central defenders moving a little wider to cover the channels left by them.

He then has to find the space and position himself in such a way ready not just to receive the ball back when possession is turned over, but to then himself be able to get the ball moving forwards again to facilitate an attack. This can mean playing long balls with great accuracy to make up for the fact that he's had to drop deep to cover the defence.

He then also has to be aware what's going on further up the field to allow himself the chance to move forwards and affect play further up. I doubt there's another role in Championship football that demands so much.

You look at Huddersfield when they were successful under Wagner and they had Jonathan Hogg playing that role. He's a player who (IMO) is a defensive minded player first, with the playmaking responsibilities a second. He also benefitted from having Phillip Billing next to him who had the stamina and strength to be all over the shop.

For me, McLean should be our Phillip Billing. The player who gets back and helps out as an anchor when needed, but is more involved going forward. Right now, this position is taken by Sara. In competition with McLean should be Gibbs, who I think has the ability to do this role, but may need a bit more polishing when it comes to positioning and general defensive abilities. It will come with time and experience though.

Sara should, in my view, be pushed further forward and left to be an offensive talent. He should compete with Nunez for that particular role. 

A new defensive midfielder should then be brought in to fill the roll that Hogg did at Huddersfield, a much more defensively inclined player. Sorenson can be back up, not that I think he has the defensive nous for this role, but he is a player with good instinct and ball skills. 

For me, if we are pushing McLean into this position again, it's another example of Wagner trying to fill round holes with square pegs. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[Danke bitte 967]

35 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

The defensive midfielder is the key position in the Wagner philosophy though.

He has to have presence of mind to be able to cover gaps left by the full backs bombing forward and central defenders moving a little wider to cover the channels left by them.

He then has to find the space and position himself in such a way ready not just to receive the ball back when possession is turned over, but to then himself be able to get the ball moving forwards again to facilitate an attack. This can mean playing long balls with great accuracy to make up for the fact that he's had to drop deep to cover the defence.

He then also has to be aware what's going on further up the field to allow himself the chance to move forwards and affect play further up. I doubt there's another role in Championship football that demands so much.

You look at Huddersfield when they were successful under Wagner and they had Jonathan Hogg playing that role. He's a player who (IMO) is a defensive minded player first, with the playmaking responsibilities a second. He also benefitted from having Phillip Billing next to him who had the stamina and strength to be all over the shop.

For me, McLean should be our Phillip Billing. The player who gets back and helps out as an anchor when needed, but is more involved going forward. Right now, this position is taken by Sara. In competition with McLean should be Gibbs, who I think has the ability to do this role, but may need a bit more polishing when it comes to positioning and general defensive abilities. It will come with time and experience though.

Sara should, in my view, be pushed further forward and left to be an offensive talent. He should compete with Nunez for that particular role. 

A new defensive midfielder should then be brought in to fill the roll that Hogg did at Huddersfield, a much more defensively inclined player. Sorenson can be back up, not that I think he has the defensive nous for this role, but he is a player with good instinct and ball skills. 

For me, if we are pushing McLean into this position again, it's another example of Wagner trying to fill round holes with square pegs. 

Really good post and good observation. I think there’s a degree of Total Defensive Football thinking to the philosophy too though, defending from the top end, which I don’t think we did well with Pukki and the creatives behind him last season. We certainly didn’t press well, which is why Barnes was signed. Additionally as @TheGunnShow points out, more defensively minded full backs should add to this. 

Equally I don’t know if this DM unicorn exists out there in our budget. If they did I think they’d be in the building by now instead of this reliance of players that simply aren’t DM’s by trade (Normann) or players with an injury history (Hayden).

[Capt. Pants 4,278]

Both Sara and McLean are better further forward. I'd be particularly concerned if we take away Sara’s goal scoring threat by playing him deep having already lost Dowell.

Still, we're only in June but pre season training is imminent and Wagner needs to have that midfield sorted as the next priority in my opinion.

[Samwam27 532]

We never bought Sara as a defensive cdm. He needs to be let loose

[Google Bot 3,326]

I see pinkun have put out a "What can Norwich fans expect from Borja Sanz" video:

I guess that pretty much confirms his incoming.

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I see pinkun have put out a "What can Norwich fans expect from Borja Sanz" video:

I guess that pretty much confirms his incoming.

Said it before and I'll say it again, I reckon he's gonna break out singing the Stutter Rap with that 'tache.

[Mason 47 1,403]

Tzolis' little mate he did his interview with seems to think we're having a hard look at Tasos Bakasetas, available for 6-8m

Central midfielder but more of an attacking, creative presence than the defensive snapper everyone craves.

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

2 minutes ago, Mason 47 said:

Tzolis' little mate he did his interview with seems to think we're having a hard look at Tasos Bakasetas, available for 6-8m

Central midfielder but more of an attacking, creative presence than the defensive snapper everyone craves.

Soon to be 30 as well. Not sure he fits the template.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,807]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Soon to be 30 as well. Not sure he fits the template.

Does Ashley Barnes fit the template?

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

4 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Does Ashley Barnes fit the template?

Tons of proven experience in the Championship and Premier League, a proven fighter/sh*thouse for a team that badly needs one or two, as an attacker demonstrated to have decent touch, excellent workrate and an ability to get other players into the game at our level, in our league.

Bakasetas looks like another attacking midfielder. We've already got Sara, Nunez, to a lesser extent Gibbs... and Bakasetas has only played in the Greek and Turkish leagues. 

If we're going to get veterans, we might as well get battle-hardened pros who are used to the British game so the adaptation is simply to how we choose to play, not a whole different culture where we all know it generally takes far longer.

Edited June 24, 2023 by TheGunnShow

[Danke bitte 967]

48 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Tons of proven experience in the Championship and Premier League, a proven fighter/sh*thouse for a team that badly needs one or two, as an attacker demonstrated to have decent touch, excellent workrate and an ability to get other players into the game at our level, in our league.

Bakasetas looks like another attacking midfielder. We've already got Sara, Nunez, to a lesser extent Gibbs... and Bakasetas has only played in the Greek and Turkish leagues. 

If we're going to get veterans, we might as well get battle-hardened pros who are used to the British game so the adaptation is simply to how we choose to play, not a whole different culture where we all know it generally takes far longer.

I tagged you in a post on this thread earlier and you subsequently ignored it.. I’m not angry GunnShow.. merely disappointed… :  D

[TheGunnShow 6,015]

5 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I tagged you in a post on this thread earlier and you subsequently ignored it.. I’m not angry GunnShow.. merely disappointed… :  D

I saw it, just didn't need to repeat as I agreed. 😉