Mark Attanasio

[Robert N. LiM 4,429]

29 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I think the real question is how many free season tickets he gets for that level of shareholding. Surely it must stretch to third cousins once removed?

I heard they'd introduced a new tier of Premium Associate Directors, a key benefit of which is that your 'seat for life' passes to your descendents on your demise. 

The delay in announcing this is down to NCFC getting confirmation from the Ombudsman that this new tier does not affect the status of existing ADs.

[Midlands Yellow 4,018]

31 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

January 26th 2026!

I think you’re being a tad optimistic there. 

[shefcanary 2,435]

24 minutes ago, Soldier on said:

Just voting in cohort until then ?

Yes, on votes that result in a major change in the corporate structure (shares & loans etc.) of the club.  Attanasio can vote against Smith & Jones on business as usual stuff at Board meetings however, although to win any vote if he doesn't take advantage of the right to appoint his own additional director, in theory he would not win a vote on anything he alone wanted to effect. As others have said earlier on this thread and as Paddy has said many times, with his money now bankrolling the club, would Smith & Jones now risk antagonising him and thus risk withdrawal of his loans? So as of today Attanasio is now formally effectively running things. You could argue now that Smith & Jones are merely marking his territory / protecting their own investment / providing checks and balances on behalf of the supporters of the club?

[Soldier on 160]

10 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Yes, on votes that result in a major change in the corporate structure (shares & loans etc.) of the club.  Attanasio can vote against Smith & Jones on business as usual stuff at Board meetings however, although to win any vote if he doesn't take advantage of the right to appoint his own additional director, in theory he would not win a vote on anything he alone wanted to effect. As others have said earlier on this thread and as Paddy has said many times, with his money now bankrolling the club, would Smith & Jones now risk antagonising him and thus risk withdrawal of his loans? So as of today Attanasio is now formally effectively running things. You could argue now that Smith & Jones are merely marking his territory / protecting their own investment / providing checks and balances on behalf of the supporters of the club?

Thanks will be interesting to see what the impact of his involvement will be in the short term. Wonder if Richard Ressler or one of his sons will now come on to the board.

[shefcanary 2,435]

13 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

Attanasio's group have now formally been allotted 195,012 shares, which will see his shareholding rise from 21.5pc to 40pc. The American has spent £5m ($6.02m) on the shares. The agreement also saw Attanasio's group provide the club with a £33.64m debt payment package that has helped to ease the burden on their financial situation

so he has paid around 25 pound a share 

18.5 pc only cost 5 million is only about 25  / 30 million for the club seems cheap to me ? the debt of 33.64 mil must be a loan that will be wiped off unless he is going to get the club very cheaply ? 

i know i am thick  it seems i am missing something 

 

That £33m debt package (or letter of credit) also included the £5m for the share allotment, so now it has been reduced in theory to £28m, although until we see the next financial statements whether the full letter of credit is still being utilised I don't know. We have discussed earlier in this thread that the existing majority shareholders were keen that this transaction was based on the same figure as the majority of other shares were originally paid for, which was £25 (from the public issue of shares in early 2000's that lead to the current corporate structure of the club), rather than a true market value (the Canaries Trust are advertising asking prices of £70-80 per share as evidence of this).

And yes, given Smith & Jones public statement that they are not seen to benefit from their disposal of their shares (i.e. sold at or above £25 per share), the most likely way to effect the transfer of their shareholding to Attanasio is for him to buy their shares at that £25 per share (total c. £11m) and by some legal means / slight of hand, write-off (rather than converting) Norfolk's loans in part but non-monetary consideration, for those shares. However that is very complicated to achieve, will involve tax implications for all parties and may yet require further reviews by EPL if Norwich are in it at that stage. I'm sceptical it could ever achieve the complete write-off of the loans however so if it happens there will be a fudge as always. 

[Indy 3,307]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Have you every boiled cabbage in the way described in there? It's worth doing... once.

Not yet, I haven’t noticed the cabbage, but then being half Czech cooking cabbage is one of our specialties, especially with ham, Road duck, red cabbage & dumplings….

I’ll dig that book out and take a look.

[PurpleCanary 5,575]

2 hours ago, GMF said:

Maybe some of the pant wetting will now cease? 😉

Oh you innocent!

[Indy 3,307]

14 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Oh you innocent!

Argh the old pant wetters, I suppose we have a lot of very elderly supporters so it comes with the territory! 

[GMF 756]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

The pant wetting may cease but i am sure a certain someone will have an awful lot of nonsense to say on the matter.

As sure as night follows day…

[In my blood 37]

53 minutes ago, Indy said:

Argh the old pant wetters, I suppose we have a lot of very elderly supporters so it comes with the territory! 

Shouldn't it be pad wetters then?

[Soldier on 160]

Pant wetting aside I’m glad this is done . Excited to see what’s next .

[Bobzilla 150]

3 hours ago, norfolkngood said:

Attanasio's group have now formally been allotted 195,012 shares, which will see his shareholding rise from 21.5pc to 40pc. The American has spent £5m ($6.02m) on the shares. The agreement also saw Attanasio's group provide the 

18.5 pc only cost 5 million is only about 25  / 30 million for the club seems cheap to me ? the debt of 33.64 mil must be a loan that will be wiped off unless he is going to get the club very cheaply ? 

i know i am thick  it seems i am missing something 

 

Without him, the club is basically insolvent.  We're not a premiership side, the deal was probably already at an agreed value when agreements were signed subject to EFL approval, when we were nowhere near the prem.  

There will be some hope value from our current position in the league, but that is more likely to stall a deal than bump up the price by a significant amount, unless the price uplift is very well hedged.

I think he's getting this slice cheaply.  Let's hope that the next slice isn't so cheap, because if it is, we're still in a mess.

[Bobzilla 150]

2 hours ago, Soldier on said:

Thanks will be interesting to see what the impact of his involvement will be in the short term. Wonder if Richard Ressler or one of his sons will now come on to the board.

He'll certainly appoint his director.  His backers will require it.

[MC_NCFC 67]

2 hours ago, shefcanary said:

That £33m debt package (or letter of credit) also included the £5m for the share allotment, so now it has been reduced in theory to £28m, although until we see the next financial statements whether the full letter of credit is still being utilised I don't know. We have discussed earlier in this thread that the existing majority shareholders were keen that this transaction was based on the same figure as the majority of other shares were originally paid for, which was £25 (from the public issue of shares in early 2000's that lead to the current corporate structure of the club), rather than a true market value (the Canaries Trust are advertising asking prices of £70-80 per share as evidence of this).

And yes, given Smith & Jones public statement that they are not seen to benefit from their disposal of their shares (i.e. sold at or above £25 per share), the most likely way to effect the transfer of their shareholding to Attanasio is for him to buy their shares at that £25 per share (total c. £11m) and by some legal means / slight of hand, write-off (rather than converting) Norfolk's loans in part but non-monetary consideration, for those shares. However that is very complicated to achieve, will involve tax implications for all parties and may yet require further reviews by EPL if Norwich are in it at that stage. I'm sceptical it could ever achieve the complete write-off of the loans however so if it happens there will be a fudge as always. 

He also has some unusual arrangement with individual investor player ownership.

The Sara purchase was financed by him and some investors into his group. It’s a complex arrangement but essential to simplify it, a few people own Sara’s commercials. Any money made on a sale to another club provides them in dividends. MA’s plan is to create several of these deals going forward, he/his investors will finance future prospects to provide a return in a certain timeframe. It’s a new way for investors to make money in a quicker timeframe than stocks/shares/funds in which they are tied in for significant periods before being able to redraw any increase in value.

My understanding is we are the first club of our kind to create this innovative model. It should fund significant signings but we won’t see them for long before they are shipped off for a profit to please the investors. Furthermore, the plan I believe is after proving the concept is to then create a fund/group several players into an investment. They plan to buy another club in Europe to do something similar but also to allow them to move players around that aren’t quite working out in the UK. 
 

Overall I think it brings us benefits but changes the playground sufficiently for us and European football. I can’t remember which football association/group he’s applying to become president for but he’s trying to move the goal post diffidently at the top.

its also interesting in how he’s trying to reshape golf with the PGA. As well as what he’s done in Baseball. He’s a big character with huge ambition in sport but there is no doubt about it, this is about making money out of money for MA. I think it’ll be good for us for where we are as a club and allows us to step up as a significant player in shaping finances in football.

[shefcanary 2,435]

38 minutes ago, MC_NCFC said:

The Sara purchase was financed by him and some investors into his group. It’s a complex arrangement but essential to simplify it, a few people own Sara’s commercials.

Wow, I didn't know that! Puts a slightly different view on things, we are in fact being used as a testing ground then? Can I ask where you have gained this knowledge? 

[MC_NCFC 67]

2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Wow, I didn't know that! Puts a slightly different view on things, we are in fact being used as a testing ground then? Can I ask where you have gained this knowledge? 

A few conversations I have had and some interviews have indicated it historically. There was one where MA talks about Stuart Webber bringing a Brazilian player in and to see how he performs and if he creates a return. About a year after that interview stuart or Delia (can’t remember) talked about how Mark funded the Sara deal additional to initial investment and I think in the same one it was mentioned how Mark is getting investor interest together and how they want to invest in players. If I had some time I’d get the various interviews together and cut them together so it would highlight the strategy.

[The Raptor 1,225]

The Sara stuff is news to me. Interesting stuff. At our level thinking outside the box like that could give us a good advantage.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

6 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Wow, I didn't know that! Puts a slightly different view on things, we are in fact being used as a testing ground then? Can I ask where you have gained this knowledge? 

This is quite a significant development! One thing is for sure, it is no vanity project for a wealthy man.

[shefcanary 2,435]

If we get promoted, then the next transfer window will be busier than any of us thought and might increase the profile of players we can sign!! 😃

Edited April 24 by shefcanary

[PurpleCanary 5,575]

51 minutes ago, MC_NCFC said:

He also has some unusual arrangement with individual investor player ownership. The Sara purchase was financed by him and some investors into his group. It’s a complex arrangement but essential to simplify it, a few people own Sara’s commercials. Any money made on a sale to another club provides them in dividends.

 

One would very much need to know the detail, but I think care needs to be taken with that kind of arrangement to avoid it falling into the third-party-ownership trap. There is also the obvious potential conflict of interests with what are in effect outside or at-a-distance investors demanding player sales purely for their own benefit.

[MC_NCFC 67]

1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

If we get promoted, then the next transfer window will be busier than any of us thought and might increase the profile of players we can sign!! 😃

I think so, but I also hear even if we are in the championship now his joint ownership has gone through he will ramp things up in the championship too.

We attracted Ben Knapper because of this innovative model and are bringing in a significant academy manager to manage the next lot of talent. I believe first players will be bought and academy prospects with a tiered investment model for investors. Short, medium and long term players with different payouts the longer investors keep money in the club. The true benefit of this is as we look at financial FairPlay issues that are hitting clubs, this gets around this. Investors money essential are recorded as money coming in/earnings essentially as the accounting uses dividends to pay returns. That enables us to purchase players and spend more than a typical club in our situation that has limited incoming revenue.

Its pretty radical and innovative.

[Mr Angry 1,570]

4 hours ago, jaberry2 said:

Sara 10 year contract incoming. Gunn 10 year contract incoming. Rowe 10 year contract incoming. Sarge 10 year contract incoming. 

The phrase "modern day slavery" comes to mind 😀

[shefcanary 2,435]

The model is interesting but Purps is right to question how close it is to breaching 3rd party rules! It does perhaps answer a question behind of Weaver's departure; dealing with this model is going to be burdensome and require new skills.

[MC_NCFC 67]

3 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

The model is interesting but Purps is right to question how close it is to breaching 3rd party rules! It does perhaps answer a question behind of Weaver's departure; dealing with this model is going to be burdensome and require new skills.

You have to assume a lot of due diligence has been done. I assume this is a loophole and MA getting himself onto whatever board it was that governs football enables him to influence those that pull the strings on legalities. He’s a smart bloke and those that win in life like him usually find ways to do things others haven’t been able to before

[MC_NCFC 67]

One things I’m not sure about is existing players. Could we see a situation where investors invest in players already under contract? That brings in income but we share the profits club, MA and investor

[Canario 207]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Not yet, I haven’t noticed the cabbage, but then being half Czech cooking cabbage is one of our specialties, especially with ham, Road duck, red cabbage & dumplings….

I’ll dig that book out and take a look.

Blimey. Is that a duck that's been run over by a van??

[Bobzilla 150]

Very curious.  I'm wondering whether it has something to do with his investment vehicle - it's not a third party acquiring control, it's an owner and director exercising their proper powers.  Perhaps.

Which is perhaps why everyone needed ownership approval.

[Mr Angry 1,570]

1 hour ago, MC_NCFC said:

He also has some unusual arrangement with individual investor player ownership.

The Sara purchase was financed by him and some investors into his group. It’s a complex arrangement but essential to simplify it, a few people own Sara’s commercials. Any money made on a sale to another club provides them in dividends. MA’s plan is to create several of these deals going forward, he/his investors will finance future prospects to provide a return in a certain timeframe. It’s a new way for investors to make money in a quicker timeframe than stocks/shares/funds in which they are tied in for significant periods before being able to redraw any increase in value.

My understanding is we are the first club of our kind to create this innovative model. It should fund significant signings but we won’t see them for long before they are shipped off for a profit to please the investors. Furthermore, the plan I believe is after proving the concept is to then create a fund/group several players into an investment. They plan to buy another club in Europe to do something similar but also to allow them to move players around that aren’t quite working out in the UK. 
 

Overall I think it brings us benefits but changes the playground sufficiently for us and European football. I can’t remember which football association/group he’s applying to become president for but he’s trying to move the goal post diffidently at the top.

its also interesting in how he’s trying to reshape golf with the PGA. As well as what he’s done in Baseball. He’s a big character with huge ambition in sport but there is no doubt about it, this is about making money out of money for MA. I think it’ll be good for us for where we are as a club and allows us to step up as a significant player in shaping finances in football.

An interesting strategy, but it seems to rely heavily on being able to identify the talent. This was the Pozzos' business model in their Watford-Udinese-Granada empire, and this worked well thanks to their excellent scouting network. It seems to have ultimately failed however, due in no small part to their interference in the day to day footballing side of the business.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

1 hour ago, MC_NCFC said:

He also has some unusual arrangement with individual investor player ownership.

The Sara purchase was financed by him and some investors into his group. It’s a complex arrangement but essential to simplify it, a few people own Sara’s commercials. Any money made on a sale to another club provides them in dividends. MA’s plan is to create several of these deals going forward, he/his investors will finance future prospects to provide a return in a certain timeframe. It’s a new way for investors to make money in a quicker timeframe than stocks/shares/funds in which they are tied in for significant periods before being able to redraw any increase in value.

 

seems as if it is sort of sailing close to the 3rd party ownership that used to happen with players from south America ? 

[MC_NCFC 67]

1 minute ago, norfolkngood said:

seems as if it is sort of sailing close to the 3rd party ownership that used to happen with players from south America ? 

Yeah I’m not sure of the exact technical aspects but the club remain as owners of players it’s nearer to speculation than anything and MA investment vehicle as the poster above mentioned is the mechanism to enable this.