Was only Bournemouth reserves..

[king canary 7,703]

What a bizarre bunch some of you are.

Just a reminder of the team we put out tonight for a cup game we don't really care that much about.

A right back who hasn't kicked a ball in weeks.

A central defender on his second appearance. 

Our 6th choice left back.

5 midfielders who'd all much rather be going forward than defending.

Hugill.

All of that and we were about 30 seconds away from winning and somehow this means that manager is awful and must go?

Get a life.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,450]

52 minutes ago, king canary said:

What a bizarre bunch some of you are.

Just a reminder of the team we put out tonight for a cup game we don't really care that much about.

A right back who hasn't kicked a ball in weeks.

A central defender on his second appearance. 

Our 6th choice left back.

5 midfielders who'd all much rather be going forward than defending.

Hugill.

All of that and we were about 30 seconds away from winning and somehow this means that manager is awful and must go?

Get a life.

But but but..... 

.HE DRINKS FROM A MUG!!!!!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...😜

[NeymarSmith 133]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

What a bizarre bunch some of you are.

Just a reminder of the team we put out tonight for a cup game we don't really care that much about.

A right back who hasn't kicked a ball in weeks.

A central defender on his second appearance. 

Our 6th choice left back.

5 midfielders who'd all much rather be going forward than defending.

Hugill.

All of that and we were about 30 seconds away from winning and somehow this means that manager is awful and must go?

Get a life.

I mean in fairness, it was hardly against a full strength Bournemouth either was it? 

But fair play, thirty seconds or so away from us being through.

 

I think most people's continued grind about DS, (certainly mine too) is that the performances and just all round aura he gives out and sends the players out (or so it seems) is just so meh. We have gone from farkeball to literally no identity or certain way of playing. We are neither a possession based side or a counter attacking side really. We are neither a team of technicians and magicians nor a group of target men and bruisers. It's coming up to nine months down the line and still there doesn't seem a clear plan on how we should play. Even in this league its the same so far, with no evidence of change.

And before you say it isn't his squad, (not you personally king) well he's now had all summer plus even if it still really isn't, does anyone really have a clue (Dean included) to the sort of players that would fit style he wants to implement? 

 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

7 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

He’s still only sub - which is astonishing given how he’s so great.  In all seriousness, I hope he gets as decent run in the side and has a good season as it benefits us. I do hope we don’t get a blow by blow account of every time he does something good, though. 

Yea, sorry was being tongue in cheek as I think GoogleB’s point was aimed at posters like me that think one game against Bournemouth a year ago doesn’t make Tzolis the second coming despite what some may feel. 
As you say, I hope he does get more minutes than the average of 10 he is getting for Twente per game but it would also be nice to have a nice reason to come back at the aggressive Tzolis worshippers if it doesn’t work out under yet another coach - it’s win win for us skeptics really 😂. 

 

[Nuff Said 5,240]

1 hour ago, NeymarSmith said:

I mean in fairness, it was hardly against a full strength Bournemouth either was it? 

But fair play, thirty seconds or so away from us being through.

 

I think most people's continued grind about DS, (certainly mine too) is that the performances and just all round aura he gives out and sends the players out (or so it seems) is just so meh. We have gone from farkeball to literally no identity or certain way of playing. We are neither a possession based side or a counter attacking side really. We are neither a team of technicians and magicians nor a group of target men and bruisers. It's coming up to nine months down the line and still there doesn't seem a clear plan on how we should play. Even in this league its the same so far, with no evidence of change.

And before you say it isn't his squad, (not you personally king) well he's now had all summer plus even if it still really isn't, does anyone really have a clue (Dean included) to the sort of players that would fit style he wants to implement? 

 

I really don’t get this apparently crucial desire for a nailed on “identity” for the way we play. It’s clear that Smith wants the team to retain possession, press more, be dynamic and play with skill, I think/hope we’ve largely shut down the ridiculous “hoofball” accusations, but just because he hasn’t implemented a Farke-style three line whip on possession, possession, possession that seems to be a bad thing.

 

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at, if I had a pound for every “FFS, where are the subs?” post during his tenure here, I could probably pay my next electricity bill. Just because Smith hasn’t implemented a rigid “my way or the highway” philosophy to playing, people are up in arms. An intelligent, flexible approach is not a bad thing.

 

(For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not saying everything Smith does is intelligent, I don’t think he’s cracked it yet, the signs are good but the jury is still out, so please don’t reply to this as if I’m some sort of Smith groupie.)

Edited August 24, 2022 by Nuff Said

[cambridgeshire canary 6,867]

2 hours ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

But but but..... 

.HE DRINKS FROM A MUG!!!!!!!! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...😜

He puts his hands in his pocket! HE PUTS HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKET! 😲

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,450]

9 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

He puts his hands in his pocket! HE PUTS HIS HANDS IN HIS POCKET! 😲

WONT SOMEBODY PLLLEEEAAASSSEEE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!

[Robert N. LiM 4,656]

31 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at, if I had a pound for every “FFS, where are the subs?” post during his tenure here, I could probably pay my next electricity bill. Just because Smith hasn’t implemented a rigid “my way or the highway” philosophy to playing, people are up in arms. An intelligent, flexible approach is not a bad thing.

Yes. Thank you. 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,450]

35 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I really don’t get this apparently crucial desire for a nailed on “identity” for the way we play. It’s clear that Smith wants the team to retain possession, press more, be dynamic and play with skill, I think/hope we’ve largely shut down the ridiculous “hoofball” accusations, but just because he hasn’t implemented a Farke-style three line whip on possession, possession, possession that seems to be a bad thing.

 

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at, if I had a pound for every “FFS, where are the subs?” post during his tenure here, I could probably pay my next electricity bill. Just because Smith hasn’t implemented a rigid “my way or the highway” philosophy to playing, people are up in arms. An intelligent, flexible approach is not a bad thing.

 

(For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not saying everything Smith does is intelligent, I don’t think he’s cracked it yet, the signs are good but the jury is still out, so please don’t reply to this as if I’m some sort of Smith groupie.)

This, this, and more of this. 

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

40 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I really don’t get this apparently crucial desire for a nailed on “identity” for the way we play. It’s clear that Smith wants the team to retain possession, press more, be dynamic and play with skill, I think/hope we’ve largely shut down the ridiculous “hoofball” accusations, but just because he hasn’t implemented a Farke-style three line whip on possession, possession, possession that seems to be a bad thing.

 

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at, if I had a pound for every “FFS, where are the subs?” post during his tenure here, I could probably pay my next electricity bill. Just because Smith hasn’t implemented a rigid “my way or the highway” philosophy to playing, people are up in arms. An intelligent, flexible approach is not a bad thing.

 

(For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not saying everything Smith does is intelligent, I don’t think he’s cracked it yet, the signs are good but the jury is still out, so please don’t reply to this as if I’m some sort of Smith groupie.)

You're doing it again Nuffo!!!  

We don't want balanced appraisals of anything. Have you never heard of hyperbole? You must be more partizan.

[Petriix 2,856]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

What a bizarre bunch some of you are.

Just a reminder of the team we put out tonight for a cup game we don't really care that much about.

A right back who hasn't kicked a ball in weeks.

A central defender on his second appearance. 

Our 6th choice left back.

5 midfielders who'd all much rather be going forward than defending.

Hugill.

All of that and we were about 30 seconds away from winning and somehow this means that manager is awful and must go?

Get a life.

On the other hand, we've gone from our B team beating their B team 6-0 to what would have been a highly fortunate victory very much against the balance of play.

It's totally reasonable to look at the comparison between how a Farke team tore them apart and a Smith team struggled. 

[Google Bot 3,387]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at

That's where my mind is with him, too.  He's providing players more freedom and space to grow, whereas Farke was more about defining a unit that operated under more strict instruction... And thus unable to adapt so well.

It sounds crude, but now we're at this level, it was clear at Cardiff that we're waiting for that Grealish equivalent to pop their head above the others and make the difference. 

Luckily we've got a lot of potential creators, such as Cantwell, Nunez, Rashica, Sara & Dowell.  And now establishing 3 goal scorers in the squad, whereas previously we had the one.   

Logically, he's doing great with such a transformation.  But we're still in that foundation stage, waiting for the cream to rise, but he's so incredibly bland with it and after being romanced by candlelight for the past few seasons it's hard to adapt.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Google Bot

[TheGunnShow 6,083]

We look much livelier out of possession under Smith than we ever did with Farke. Farke seemed to try to control the spaces in which teams played, but you need players bolting backwards and getting behind the ball at a rate of knots to pull that off consistently. Or a couple of Skipps who are great at picking off balls or turning them over.

The downside is that after chasing like hell to get back, it's harder to be ultra-fluid and Farke-like when back in possession again. But that was partially why Farke's teams were quite easy to play against if your team had the physicality and enough tekkers.

Edited August 24, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[shefcanary 2,503]

If we are looking back to past managers to compare Smith with, isn't Worthington the nearest one? And didn't even good ole Worthy get us promoted once we had Hucks in the pack? 

Given that experience as long as we sack Smith when we get back to the EPL, surely all fans will be more than happy with that? 😉 

[OTT - I do wish there was a tongue in cheek emoji, but I guess that would probably mean we'd have to exclude all under 16 year olds on here, which at times seems to be the majority even if the birth certificate says otherwise?]

[king canary 7,703]

24 minutes ago, Petriix said:

On the other hand, we've gone from our B team beating their B team 6-0 to what would have been a highly fortunate victory very much against the balance of play.

It's totally reasonable to look at the comparison between how a Farke team tore them apart and a Smith team struggled. 

Not really because the circumstances are totally different.

Our 'reserves' that night looked like this...

Nobody out of position only one 'youngster (Mumba) in the starting XI and £25m spread across 3 new signings in that XI (Gunn, Tzolis, Sargent). Nothing like the makeshift side that was put out last night.

[astro 372]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Not really because the circumstances are totally different.

Our 'reserves' that night looked like this...

Nobody out of position only one 'youngster (Mumba) in the starting XI and £25m spread across 3 new signings in that XI (Gunn, Tzolis, Sargent). Nothing like the makeshift side that was put out last night.

Except that several of those players were getting up to speed with the English game and hadn’t played much together before….

[king canary 7,703]

Just now, astro said:

Except that several of those players were getting up to speed with the English game and hadn’t played much together before….

Several? I think you mean two.

I don't think anyone can with good faith argue that the team Smith had to put out last night is anything comparable to the 'b team' Farke played last season.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

56 minutes ago, Petriix said:

On the other hand, we've gone from our B team beating their B team 6-0 to what would have been a highly fortunate victory very much against the balance of play.

It's totally reasonable to look at the comparison between how a Farke team tore them apart and a Smith team struggled. 

It's also totally reasonable to put FAR FAR more emphasis on the league games when we actually play our preferred 11 and try and get the results we need to reach our ultimate goal for the season. But funnily enough, the majority of posters on this thread didn't give Smith any credit for the wins this past week, or the clear vision and identity that is apparent, the identity that, incredibly, some are still insistent is missing 🤣 they also don't praise the recruitment this summer and how Smith has integrated new signings (not just from a different country, but a different continent) relatively quickly.

If anything goes well it's in spite of Smith. Any hint of troubles (and narrowly losing a carabao cup game playing our second string is REALLY scraping the barrel of finding something to whinge about) and Smith is a fat, tea drinking, tired old school manager with no charisma.

This forum really is pathetic at times.

[Google Bot 3,387]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Nobody out of position only one 'youngster (Mumba) in the starting XI and £25m spread across 3 new signings in that XI (Gunn, Tzolis, Sargent). Nothing like the makeshift side that was put out last night.

Hugill, Rashica, Cantwell, McLean, Sara, Gibson, Gunn & Byram aren't makeshift.  At 1-1 we then bring on Aarons, Pukki & Idah. 

Point of the thread is that Tzolis, who hadn't kicked a ball for us, pulled the strings in last years 6-0 and it was used as many to discredit his ability on the basis of it being "only" Bournemouth reserves.

The comparisons should be between himself and Rashica/Cantwell who didn't show up anywhere near that level last night. In fact, the more I've seen of Rashica this season i'm starting to think that we've kept the wrong man.

Those wide positions are going to be critical in our success this season, so it's an important focus at this point as we wait for individuals to nail their places.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Google Bot

[hogesar 9,811]

12 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Hugill, Rashica, Cantwell, McLean, Sara, Gibson, Gunn & Byram aren't makeshift.  At 1-1 we then bring on Aarons, Pukki & Idah. 

Point of the thread is that Tzolis, who hadn't kicked a ball for us, pulled the strings in last years 6-0 and it was used as many to discredit his ability on the basis of it being "only" Bournemouth reserves.

The comparisons should be between himself and Rashica/Cantwell who didn't show up anywhere near that level last night. In fact, the more I've seen of Rashica this season i'm starting to think that we've kept the wrong man.

Those wide positions are going to be critical in our success this season, so it's an important focus at this point as we wait for individuals to nail their places.

Tzolis was up against a full-back who now plays in the National League or something though. And he had better players around him, playing in their natural positions. Beyond that game Tzolis has been dismal and he's struggling to get game time at his loan club now, which is sad but not surprising. Taking a one game sample is a complete waste of time anyway. I've seen more from Cantwell this season already than I saw from Tzolis at any point last season.

[hogesar 9,811]

6 hours ago, king canary said:

What a bizarre bunch some of you are.

Just a reminder of the team we put out tonight for a cup game we don't really care that much about.

A right back who hasn't kicked a ball in weeks.

A central defender on his second appearance. 

Our 6th choice left back.

5 midfielders who'd all much rather be going forward than defending.

Hugill.

All of that and we were about 30 seconds away from winning and somehow this means that manager is awful and must go?

Get a life.

If fans aren't careful, Farke will end up being a bad thing for NCFC. Grown men crying for a manager with more 'charisma'. I really don't get it. You don't have to sleep with the bloke, or wine and dine him. He just has to manage the football team.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Hugill, Rashica, Cantwell, McLean, Sara, Gibson, Gunn & Byram aren't makeshift.  At 1-1 we then bring on Aarons, Pukki & Idah. 

Point of the thread is that Tzolis, who hadn't kicked a ball for us, pulled the strings in last years 6-0 and it was used as many to discredit his ability on the basis of it being "only" Bournemouth reserves.

The comparisons should be between himself and Rashica/Cantwell who didn't show up anywhere near that level last night. In fact, the more I've seen of Rashica this season i'm starting to think that we've kept the wrong man.

Those wide positions are going to be critical in our success this season, so it's an important focus at this point when it appears that we're waiting for individuals to nail their places.

I agree that Rashica is not showing he is good enough. Cantwell despite not being the league tear up some think he should be is a good squad player and decent enough to bring on at this level to give you some possible threat, but what this season has Tzolis given you to suggest he has hit the heights of Bournemouth performance? Are Bournemouth above or below the standard of the Serbian league? Why after that game have Twente only brought him on for cameo late sub appearances? 
He may come good, he may not. At present he hasn’t come good. I’m context of it a cup game vs Bournemouth means as much now as it did then. Essentially nothing because of how the rest of the season unfolded. When a 6-0 win is followed by Leicester and Arsenal it is tougher than when a 2-2 draw is followed by Sunderland and Birmingham. It’s also critical to manage injuries this season so last night was minutes for Byram, Idah and fringe players that could be key for us later. Tzolis isn’t part of that this year at least, maybe if he does get more games and can play well then he can come in January but I’m not holding my breath 

 

[Kenny Foggo 1,122]

Why don't you obsessed Farke fans go and support his new club and leave us to enjoy this season ... two wins, 7th from bottom. exciting p young players in Nunez, Gibbs, Big Andy, Sara etc. .. Sargeant looking a real player through the middle, Cantwell getting back to his best, new investment... screw Farke he's gone.😜

[Google Bot 3,387]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I've seen more from Cantwell this season already than I saw from Tzolis at any point last season.

Yeah Cantwell has been great, it's Rashica where the question marks are. Last night was a great match for him to step and show what he's capable of - as Tzolis did.  

But he fluffed it, again.

[king canary 7,703]

18 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Hugill, Rashica, Cantwell, McLean, Sara, Gibson, Gunn & Byram aren't makeshift.  At 1-1 we then bring on Aarons, Pukki & Idah. 

Point of the thread is that Tzolis, who hadn't kicked a ball for us, pulled the strings in last years 6-0 and it was used as many to discredit his ability on the basis of it being "only" Bournemouth reserves.

The comparisons should be between himself and Rashica/Cantwell who didn't show up anywhere near that level last night. In fact, the more I've seen of Rashica this season i'm starting to think that we've kept the wrong man.

Those wide positions are going to be critical in our success this season, so it's an important focus at this point as we wait for individuals to nail their places.

Rashica I agree- he's not taken any of his chances and now if you asked would I rather have Tzolis or him I'd probably say Tzolis. 

Saying that I believe a loan out and a fresh start is probably best for Christos in the short term. 

[Google Bot 3,387]

4 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

He may come good, he may not. At present he hasn’t come good.

 

Looks awful doesn't he.

[Google Bot 3,387]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Saying that I believe a loan out and a fresh start is probably best for Christos in the short term. 

I would've taken Rashica staying and Tzolis going out on loan at the start of the season for sure.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing but i'm not losing touch that I'm with the club in that decision.

It's just an annoyance when you can see Smith laying the foundations for players to rise up and in hindsight Tzolis just seems to have more fire and determination to take that opportunity.

I'm sure Rashica will eventually come good.... Or sold.... one of the two!

[king canary 7,703]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

I really don’t get this apparently crucial desire for a nailed on “identity” for the way we play. It’s clear that Smith wants the team to retain possession, press more, be dynamic and play with skill, I think/hope we’ve largely shut down the ridiculous “hoofball” accusations, but just because he hasn’t implemented a Farke-style three line whip on possession, possession, possession that seems to be a bad thing.

 

He is a modern manager who has a basic way he wants the team to play, but is adaptable, wants flexible players (god knows we need them to play at left back) and will change tactics to suit the opposition and the way the game is going. Which is not something Farke was good at, if I had a pound for every “FFS, where are the subs?” post during his tenure here, I could probably pay my next electricity bill. Just because Smith hasn’t implemented a rigid “my way or the highway” philosophy to playing, people are up in arms. An intelligent, flexible approach is not a bad thing.

 

(For the avoidance of doubt, I’m not saying everything Smith does is intelligent, I don’t think he’s cracked it yet, the signs are good but the jury is still out, so please don’t reply to this as if I’m some sort of Smith groupie.)

Totally agree.

Pragmatism in a manager is underrated. A footballing 'philosophy' is all well and good when it works but painful when it doesn't. 

 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,450]

Everyone crying over tzolis being loaned out, how do you know that he didn't ask for it? How do you know that in his sit down with smith (the same as every player) he didn't say "boss, I'd like to have a season away to really find myself again and hopefully come back better for it" 

 

Now not saying it did go down that way, but there's absolutely nothing to say it didn't either.

I hope the lad comes back and is something very special, I really really do, but I just have no faith in that at all. 

[astro 372]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

Several? I think you mean two.

I don't think anyone can with good faith argue that the team Smith had to put out last night is anything comparable to the 'b team' Farke played last season.

Williams, Tzolis, Sargent - new, that’s three, then factor in Mumba and Omo had not had much first teams experience - that’s five…….I think you’re just making excuses for a poor performance.