Do you actually want promotion?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Wonder how much this splits the fans. Premier League football these last two times has been utterly depressing. The club has been slagged off, the football has been turgid. We got to play with the top clubs, but really we werent ever competing. I dont enjoy football like that. Watching inept, ineffective play resulting in poor results. Without a change in ownership and therefore financial power, I do not see how that ever changes in the Premier League, so personally I dont long for it's return.

Id prefer for us to be a successful club in the championship until something changes that means we have a hope of competing in the Premier League. Id like us to be in and around the play-offs, without necessarily being too fussed if we go up or not, like Premier League football is everything.

What about you? Promotion and Premier League football no matter what? Or successful entertaining football at an appropriate level for our club?

Right now I dont think the Premier League is our level, or ever really can be with our ownership model. If we acquired the finances to be able to compete however, bring it on.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

Unless we get a massive injection of cash or taken over then no, as it would be yet another embarrassment I fear!

[TIL 1010 4,746]

Only with about 15 new players and a new head coach so a no from me.

[Greavsy 2,413]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

Only with about 15 new players and a new head coach so a no from me.

It's a nil from Til!  😊 

[Monty13 2,234]

People who don’t want promotion will be the same complaining about mid table obscurity in a few years time I’d be willing to bet.

You play the game that’s in front of you. Yes it would suck to be humbled again at PL level but this idea we can build a more competitive PL team by staying in the Championship a few seasons on a Championship mid table budget is fantasy.

We only progress by promotion otherwise you can kiss Pukki, Nunez, Aaarons and the other PL looking players goodbye when we fail to bounce back and this squad goes one way, backwards.

[Mr Angry 1,561]

I still think we’ve got the strongest first XI in this league-more so if Joao Pedro leaves Watford-so I’m not sure how I’d feel watching that team not get promoted. 

[Newtopia 517]

Without chasing promotion and the dream of getting ourselves into the epl, I can’t see players like Nunez or Sara joining us.  

[TIL 1010 4,746]

1 minute ago, Monty13 said:

 

We only progress by promotion otherwise you can kiss Pukki, Nunez, Aaarons and the other PL looking players goodbye when we fail to bounce back and this squad goes one way, backwards.

Monty you must remind me how we have progressed in our last three promotions going back to 2015 and the Play Off Final.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

We can only do what we do on the day. And if we win more points than others we will be promoted again. But we are nowhere near enough equipped to mount another EPL campaign with any hope of progress. Have seen the money being spent so far in the EPL? This one must be the highest already and there is still a fortnight to go before the panic buys.

So yes I want us to achieve promotion but no tears if we just have a decent season without promotion and just wait for new owners. And we have to face facts that with 26K attendances and the owner with the least money in near enough all divisions, trying to be self sufficient and relying on producing and selling, we don't even have the right mentality for EPL.

[Monty13 2,234]

2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Monty you must remind me how we have progressed in our last three promotions going back to 2015 and the Play Off Final.

I forget when Webber/Farke arrived did we have the facilities we have now, the stable finances and were we buying Chilean internationals and 10+ million Brazilians?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Without chasing promotion and the dream of getting ourselves into the epl, I can’t see players like Nunez or Sara joining us.  

But are these players good enough? We don't know yet. £12M for a player is Championship level in most cases nowadays. And how ambitious are they? We don't know what wages they were on. £20K a week might be double what they were earning and a nice little four year contract in the UK might set them up for life. Ambition comes after money at the moment or Jesse Lingard would be at WHU.

[Mr Angry 1,561]

I also don’t see how you could have a successful championship team if it didn’t get promoted?

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

We know our place.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I forget when Webber/Farke arrived did we have the facilities we have now, the stable finances and were we buying Chilean internationals and 10+ million Brazilians?

Alex Neil managed to spend a lot of money on poor players. Naismith, Wildschut, Pritchard

[Branston Pickle 3,657]

Well, this is the thing - all supporters want to be doing as well as possible, which by definition means being on the PL.  But the PL is a horribly double-edged thing, as we have found out…look at Forest, they’ve gone up with a group of players, bought an entirely new team (15 and counting) at £150m+ and are still favourites for the drop.

Tbh it does make you wonder whether Championship players will soon see it as a poisoned chalice  - other than for the money - as 80% will be almost certainly binned and barely kick a ball in the PL. That’s not their ‘dream’ and what they were playing for, but it is what the PL has become.

 

[Newtopia 517]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

But are these players good enough? We don't know yet. £12M for a player is Championship level in most cases nowadays. And how ambitious are they? We don't know what wages they were on. £20K a week might be double what they were earning and a nice little four year contract in the UK might set them up for life. Ambition comes after money at the moment or Jesse Lingard would be at WHU.

True, but without the cash or opportunities these players would choose to use Portugal or Spain as their stepping stone, those are much more cultural familiar.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Just now, Newtopia said:

True, but without the cash or opportunities these players would choose to use Portugal or Spain as their stepping stone, those are much more cultural familiar.

Indeed they are but the money isn't there in those countries for clubs our size. And we have to face it, if we want to buy anyone next season without promotion, we are going to have to do it the same way as all the other clubs lower than the EPL.

Too many supporters talk of selling on. What attitude is that? Yes if you bring in a youngster from another club like Maddison it will be a consideration. But that means we don't think we are in any way capable of retaining our star players.

I don't know exactly what the Emi situation was but just how hard was the desire to keep him rather than cash in?

[TIL 1010 4,746]

15 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I forget when Webber/Farke arrived did we have the facilities we have now, the stable finances and were we buying Chilean internationals and 10+ million Brazilians?

Monty i was talking about progressing from a Championship club upon promotion into a club making a good fist of it in the PL which we have failed to do three times in a row now. Fur coat and no knickers comes to mind.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

28 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

this idea we can build a more competitive PL team by staying in the Championship a few seasons on a Championship mid table budget is fantasy.

This may be an argument from some but not from me. I dont think our prospects at Premier League level will ever change unless the club's finances do - and this means wealthy owners unfortunately. Whilst we dont have that, I'd rather we stayed at our level. This is not a lack of ambition, merely it's suspension whilst things remain the same.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

29 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

Without chasing promotion and the dream of getting ourselves into the epl, I can’t see players like Nunez or Sara joining us.  

The point for me though, as fan is that this is no longer a dream, in fact it's a nightmare.

Before, the prospect of promotion was exciting - the possibility of establishing ourselves as a Premier League force, better players, giving the big boys a bloody nose.

The reality is far from that, and we've had enough of a reality check over the last couple of seasons for a number of us to lose any excitement about the prospect of promotion.

 

[Gibbo 131]

Premier league has been pretty depressing... but never would I want to have not experienced the 2 promotion seasons under Farke.  Would 100% rather have a great season followed by a really poor season, over constant mediocrity.  I remember just how dry those 9 or so years were between getting relegated for the first time and the promotion season under Worthy!

[pete 319]

Pity we can't get promoted and sell it for the £120m, do that a couple of times we could build a team to launch a decent chance of staying on a long term basis i.e. over 3 years.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

23 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

I also don’t see how you could have a successful championship team if it didn’t get promoted?

Successful for me means winning more games than you lose. 

Id argue that it feels more successful to finish 3rd in the championship having won most games and not go up, than to finish 20th in the Premier League having been pummelled every week, but finishing higher in the pyramid

[Gibbo 131]

1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Successful for me means winning more games than you lose. 

Id argue that it feels more successful to finish 3rd in the championship having won most games and not go up, than to finish 20th in the Premier League having been pummelled every week, but finishing higher in the pyramid

Ask all the fans of teams who lose in the championship playoffs if they feel it was a successful season or crushing disappointment 😄.  I know a Derby fan I could ask...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

24 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Tbh it does make you wonder whether Championship players will soon see it as a poisoned chalice  - other than for the money - as 80% will be almost certainly binned and barely kick a ball in the PL. That’s not their ‘dream’ and what they were playing for, but it is what the PL has become.

 

I grew up in Derby and at the time Derby were a bit of a yoyo club. I did go to the occasional game, though I never really liked the club.

You'd have players like Sturridge and Van Der Laan busting a gut to get the club promoted, but then you knew they'd all be binned off next season. I suppose that shows things havent changed that much...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

14 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Fur coat and no knickers comes to mind.

I guess that's supposed to be a bad thing? But will have to suggest that to the Missus...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

3 minutes ago, Gibbo said:

Ask all the fans of teams who lose in the championship playoffs if they feel it was a successful season or crushing disappointment 😄.  I know a Derby fan I could ask...

Yes but that's because they're all still clinging onto the dream of getting to the Premier League.

As the most relegated club from the Premier League (I think that's true) we're a little further along on our journey than them. They still believe promotion can herald the glory years. That's why its a crushing defeat for them, all their hopes and dreams depend on victory. I think we are a bit more enlightened now

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,309]

Meh

Edited August 19, 2022 by GodlyOtsemobor

[Mr Angry 1,561]

14 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Successful for me means winning more games than you lose. 

Id argue that it feels more successful to finish 3rd in the championship having won most games and not go up, than to finish 20th in the Premier League having been pummelled every week, but finishing higher in the pyramid

Imagine the reaction of the media if that happened-they despise us anyway but they’d be ripping the p!$$ forever 😳😳😳

[Robert N. LiM 4,344]

50 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

You play the game that’s in front of you. Yes it would suck to be humbled again at PL level but this idea we can build a more competitive PL team by staying in the Championship a few seasons on a Championship mid table budget is fantasy.

 

Absolutely take this point. But on the other hand I do think you can get promoted too soon. 18-19 was an absolute dream, but I do sometimes wonder what would have happened if we'd not had so many last-minute winners that season, and Aarons, Godfrey, Lewis, Emi etc had had another year to mature. In that alternative reality I can see us winning the league at a canter the following season, then going into the Prem with those players having a bit more experience. We'd have had a much better chance of staying up. Imagine if we'd then signed Skipp at that point...

Obviously a lot of conjecture here.