Do you actually want promotion?

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,292]

10 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Who knows. It's all conjecture. What isn't conjecture is that I want us to win every game. Another thing that isn't conjecture is that if you don't dwell on the disappointments our club has progressed markedly since 2015. The future will be what the future will be. We might not even be here to see it.

Back to tonight...

We're 3 points off 4th so to be safe would a draw be better than winning😉

Or..... If you ignore the failures then we've constantly succeeded 😜🤣

[Helsinki canary 242]

Not without new owners and serious cash investment combined with a new head coach and sporting director 

[nutty nigel 7,528]

10 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

Or..... If you ignore the failures then we've constantly succeeded 😜🤣

No, if you don't dwell on the disappointments. If you ignore the failures we wont ever progress.

[Mr Angry 1,554]

How can you enjoy a game of football if you don’t want your team to win? In fact, how can you support your team if you don’t want them to win? We’d have to change the lyrics to OTBC-“Oh $h!t, we’ve scored a goal” 🤣🤣🤣

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

44 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Who knows. It's all conjecture. What isn't conjecture is that I want us to win every game. Another thing that isn't conjecture is that if you don't dwell on the disappointments our club has progressed markedly since 2015. The future will be what the future will be. We might not even be here to see it.

Back to tonight...

We're 3 points off 4th so to be safe would a draw be better than winning😉

You have the draw. I always look for five or six goals. Playoffs seems a way off after 4 games. Lets just do as the coaches say. Don't look beyond the game you are playing.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

How can you enjoy a game of football if you don’t want your team to win? In fact, how can you support your team if you don’t want them to win? We’d have to change the lyrics to OTBC-“Oh $h!t, we’ve scored a goal” 🤣🤣🤣

Nobody has said that. Some have said they would be happy with a SUCCESSFUL season in the Championship. What do you say is success? I think seventh is a good season. If it isn't bad then it must be good.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

32 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

No, if you don't dwell on the disappointments. If you ignore the failures we wont ever progress.

Surely the failures are an important thing too, so that lessons can be learned?

[Mr Angry 1,554]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Nobody has said that. Some have said they would be happy with a SUCCESSFUL season in the Championship. What do you say is success? I think seventh is a good season. If it isn't bad then it must be good.

20% have said they don’t want us to be promoted so by default they don’t want us to win every game

And with the squad we have, 7th would be a bad season for me.

[Parma Ham's gone mouldy 2,219]

The Great Mass Debater     958

•  
  •  

Posted 4 hours ago

   6 hours ago,  Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: 

I cannot conceivably vote no, so the answer is - and must always be - yes. 

The players are professional sportsmen, highly competitive, with other teams, with each other, with themselves. Any hint of a no mentality makes success virtually impossible. 
 

As the very well paid golf psychologist Dr Bob Rotella likes to (wisely) say:

’..positive thinking is not 100% successful, but negative thinking always is..!…’

Parma 

 

You're talking about the players. Im talking about the fans. Fans whose investment is the entertainment value of the sport, the feelgood factor of seeing the club progress. Premier League football at this club is the antithesis of this. There is no feelgood factor. I was heartbroken when Worthy's team got relegated, because right up until the final day it was in our hands to bravely escape. Relegations like that, thought they hurt, offer hope.

Our relegations just offer misery and futility. There is nothing to get out of it as a fan.

Relegations where we give it a damn good fight are not what we have endured these last two times. Because we are hopelessly out-gunned. And I dont want any more seasons of that. Remember, this season we were supposed to have some bazookas etc and we were even worse.

The players of course have to have ambition - Im not talking about them. Im talking about us, the fans, and our experience.
 

———————————

No. I wasn’t. 

I was taking about sporting mindset. The fans must believe, must strive, must endure beyond any reasonable analysis. 
 

@lake district canary predicted huge success for us in the first Farke glory year. This was following Maddison’s sale and near financial fire sale of players.

That year’s success was beyond rational analysis and visible logic. And so it happened. 

That does not mean I endorse Polyanna blindness to the actualité of errors, sporting miscalculations, negative tendencies and poor judgments of players, management, sporting hierarchy or owners. I do not. 

Though dreaming is sometimes all that players, managers, owners and fans have. It is why the timing of selling Buendia and hitting our apparent financial ceiling so clearly is such a disaster. It concretises negativity in the minds of players, fans and all. 

And yet. And yet. @lake district canary was right wasn’t he?

Parma 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Parma Ham's gone mouldy
*the timing of. Not selling Buendia per se at some given point

[lake district canary 4,531]

28 minutes ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

I was taking about sporting mindset. The fans must believe, must strive, must endure beyond any reasonable analysis.

@lake district canary predicted huge success for us in the first Farke glory year. This was following Maddison’s sale and near financial fire sale of players.

That year’s success was beyond rational analysis and visible logic. And so it happened. 

That does not mean I endorse Polyanna blindness to the actualité of errors, sporting miscalculations, negative tendencies and poor judgments of players, management, sporting hierarchy or owners. I do not. 

Though dreaming is sometimes all that players, managers, owners and fans have. It is why selling Buendia and hitting our apparent financial ceiling so clearly is such a disaster. It concretises negativity in the minds of players, fans and all. 

And yet. And yet. @lake district canary was right wasn’t he?

Parma 

That first promotion season was strange to me, I saw so much hope and potential in the team and it's new players - Krul, Pukki, Buendia to name three - yet fans seemed to be losing the plot in the early games that season and I couldn't understand it. My question is always "how can people be so negative when everything is to play for"? 

One game that haunts me is the home game against Huddersfield under Alex Neil when we were 2-1 down and needed full support and there were very audible chants of "you don't know what you're doing".  A game with everything to play for and yet fans were not helping - doing the opposite actually. 

To me it's a kind of collective insanity - fans want things to be so good, but then for whatever reason will sometimes do the very thing that will make it hard to achieve that.  That is what started that first promotion season with Farke - fans turning when the season had hardly started.

I will always try to be positive about our chances, even when things look bleak - to me that is what supporting a club should be about - belief. Logic, reason, stats, bad results, all irrelevant in some ways - you have to believe.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,810]

So we're into the Playoff places. 

21.54% of this forum must be hoping we slip up against Sunderland.

[Herman 9,754]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

So we're into the Playoff places. 

21.54% of this forum must be hoping we slip up against Sunderland.

28 gutted City fans tonight.😉

[nutty nigel 7,528]

5 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Surely the failures are an important thing too, so that lessons can be learned?

I think you may have trouble reading🤓

I said "No, if you don't dwell on the disappointments. If you ignore the failures we wont ever progress." You even quoted it.🙃

Anyway, the second goal was a killer for those of you hoping for a draw😉

[kenfoggo 247]

Not sure why anyone would vote NO ? Surely a negative, losing mindset cannot be a healthy one? A football club must always be trying to improve, otherwise what is the point? To accept Championship mid-table? I want to see promotion because along with that comes hope. Hope that we can do better than in the last two relegation seasons. We have to believe that we can do better, surely?

[Ken Hairy 3,771]

1 hour ago, kenfoggo said:

Not sure why anyone would vote NO ? Surely a negative, losing mindset cannot be a healthy one? A football club must always be trying to improve, otherwise what is the point? To accept Championship mid-table? I want to see promotion because along with that comes hope. Hope that we can do better than in the last two relegation seasons. We have to believe that we can do better, surely?

I think it's just the concern of we'll go up,  stink the place out again so what's the point?  I've said if myself before,  deep down though with the exception of the few binners who infiltrate these votes all of the "no" votes will be buzzing again next May should we go up. 

Guarantee all of us want promotion,  it's just at the time of this vote many are still in that negative cycle,  but we're a fickle beast football fans if we're being honest. 

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

4 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I think it's just the concern of we'll go up,  stink the place out again so what's the point?  I've said if myself before,  deep down though with the exception of the few binners who infiltrate these votes all of the "no" votes will be buzzing again next May should we go up. 

Guarantee all of us want promotion,  it's just at the time of this vote many are still in that negative cycle,  but we're a fickle beast football fans if we're being honest. 

More than a few. They infest this forum in numbers.

I just cannot believe that (currently) twenty-nine City supporters do not want us to get promoted to the world's top league. In fact, it is so illogical that I have difficulty accepting that there is even one, tbh. 

[Ken Hairy 3,771]

1 minute ago, BroadstairsR said:

More than a few. They infest this forum in numbers.

I just cannot believe that (currently) twenty-nine City supporters do not want us to get promoted to the world's top league. In fact, it is so illogical that I have difficulty accepting that there is even one, tbh. 

I'll categorically state for the record, I voted 'yes', I know I'm a moaning **** at times (need to stop posting after defeats 😂),  but I'll never not want the best possibly result for us. 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Promotion! Promotion! Promotion!.....Even if it's just to p!ss off Gary Linelicker's Match of the Day and its pretentious punters....

Oh....and on their current form, I don't want to play our Suffolk neighbours next season....We're the Pride o' East Anglia, and long may it continue.....

[BroadstairsR 2,159]

3 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

I'll categorically state for the record, I voted 'yes', I know I'm a moaning **** at times (need to stop posting after defeats 😂),  but I'll never not want the best possibly result for us. 

Mentioning the Binners. If the same poll was to be presented to them on TDWT (or whatever they call it) then it would likely be 200% in the affirmative. 

So desperate are they for some inkling of success after so many years in the wilderness that I'm sure they would all contrive a way to vote twice.

Now at littleoldnorwich.com many see things differently it seems. Perhaps they would prefer a decade or so in the wilderness?

[Bradwell canary 109]

Most would agree, there was very little pleasure in watching our last two fleeting visits to the PL, then the Champs is better to watch.

However if promotion meant by some fluke we had new owners, and buy like Notts Forest, it would only ever be another fleeting visit.

But a new director being appointed, who knows what that may lead to?

[Mason 47 1,376]

Finishing as high up the table as possible, with the promotion that comes with it, should always be the aim. Nobody targets 7th place.

You get promoted to earn the right to challenge in a higher league; the problem is that having earned that right, the PL now stings you with a seemingly 50m+ membership fee (in necessary player upgrades) to even vaguely compete. Getting promoted isn't the issue.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

19 hours ago, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

The Great Mass Debater     958

•  
  •  

Posted 4 hours ago

   6 hours ago,  Parma Ham's gone mouldy said: 

I cannot conceivably vote no, so the answer is - and must always be - yes. 

The players are professional sportsmen, highly competitive, with other teams, with each other, with themselves. Any hint of a no mentality makes success virtually impossible. 
 

As the very well paid golf psychologist Dr Bob Rotella likes to (wisely) say:

’..positive thinking is not 100% successful, but negative thinking always is..!…’

Parma 

 

You're talking about the players. Im talking about the fans. Fans whose investment is the entertainment value of the sport, the feelgood factor of seeing the club progress. Premier League football at this club is the antithesis of this. There is no feelgood factor. I was heartbroken when Worthy's team got relegated, because right up until the final day it was in our hands to bravely escape. Relegations like that, thought they hurt, offer hope.

Our relegations just offer misery and futility. There is nothing to get out of it as a fan.

Relegations where we give it a damn good fight are not what we have endured these last two times. Because we are hopelessly out-gunned. And I dont want any more seasons of that. Remember, this season we were supposed to have some bazookas etc and we were even worse.

The players of course have to have ambition - Im not talking about them. Im talking about us, the fans, and our experience.
 

———————————

No. I wasn’t. 

I was taking about sporting mindset. The fans must believe, must strive, must endure beyond any reasonable analysis. 
 

@lake district canary predicted huge success for us in the first Farke glory year. This was following Maddison’s sale and near financial fire sale of players.

That year’s success was beyond rational analysis and visible logic. And so it happened. 

That does not mean I endorse Polyanna blindness to the actualité of errors, sporting miscalculations, negative tendencies and poor judgments of players, management, sporting hierarchy or owners. I do not. 

Though dreaming is sometimes all that players, managers, owners and fans have. It is why the timing of selling Buendia and hitting our apparent financial ceiling so clearly is such a disaster. It concretises negativity in the minds of players, fans and all. 

And yet. And yet. @lake district canary was right wasn’t he?

Parma 

 

No offence to Lakey, but a stopped clock is right twice a day. Lakey is always positive. Like me he took Farke's sacking hard, but has remained positive. This is out of faith/belief, rather than reason

[nutty nigel 7,528]

There's reason behind Lakey's posts. It's arrogant to think yours has reason and his doesn't. Even DCB and Keith Scott can claim reason backs up their POV.

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

10 hours ago, kenfoggo said:

I want to see promotion because along with that comes hope. Hope that we can do better than in the last two relegation seasons. We have to believe that we can do better, surely?

Again, I think this is what splits the fans, albeit the learned helplessness is the minority opinion.

I have lost all hope unless anything changes. I had hope in our first Farke PL campaign. I was sure we'd do better with some money spent, I was prepared to accept that season as a free-hit following a promotion that came too soon and left us with no opportunity to invest. But we were even worse the second time around, and this time, by Norwich standards we gave it a good go in terms of recruitment, but all that demonstrated was that we were incapable of acquiring the players of the calibre we needed. And then we sacked the manager - the manager I believed in and had faith in. The new guy was no better and in my opinion a step backward. So what now do I have to believe in?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

2 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

There's reason behind Lakey's posts. It's arrogant to think yours has reason and his doesn't. Even DCB and Keith Scott can claim reason backs up their POV.

I didnt mean to imply there was no reason, but Lakey always looks on the postive side, his positivity is his default, it is not resultant of the situation

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

23 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

With Attansio on board to fund and underwrite a £100m net splurge upon promotion to actually for once try and stay up then yes.

I dont know if you're just postulating theoretically or whether you believe £100m might appear. Personally I dont see Anastasio putting in that kind of money. Not for the small amount of the club he will be getting

[Monty13 2,231]

1 minute ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I dont know if you're just postulating theoretically or whether you believe £100m might appear. Personally I dont see Anastasio putting in that kind of money. Not for the small amount of the club he will be getting

Only way I see it happening is if the club sell him those million shares and he becomes the new owner.

[Mason 47 1,376]

2 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

I dont know if you're just postulating theoretically or whether you believe £100m might appear. Personally I dont see Anastasio putting in that kind of money. Not for the small amount of the club he will be getting

I don't think he's coming in to do that at all.

I think if you look at the Brewers, he's done a similar thing to what we're trying to do already. I think he's coming in to put some real business & financial strength on the board, not to come in and bankroll a transfer project.

But, for example where we wanted Andrich last year but didn't want to go the extra wages for him, we would then be able to. Where a Buendia might want a move, we've got an extra 20k pw to keep him a bit longer.

It's a move for the overall health of the club as opposed to going into the game editor and giving Norwich £200m to spend

[The Great Mass Debater 1,081]

9 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

All of the "no" votes will be buzzing again next May should we go up. 

I genuinely wont. I've buzzed before (especially excited about our transfer dealings last window), but unless something is different, I cannot foresee promotion being anything other than a repeat of the last two Premier League campaigns. I have no reason to believe it will be different. I dont believe in Smith, but the problem goes far beyond which manager is in charge. Unless we can pay the kind of wages needed to tempt players good enough to keep us up, which at the moment we dont, then we will never be able to change our fortunes.

Take Emi for example. I know he wanted to go, but money talks. If we had any, we would have done what most other clubs do and offer him a whopping new contract to stay. I doubt we even tried and were happy to cop the money. On promotion. What other club does that?

Relegation, sure, you need to slash the wage bill, stabilise the finances and the player wants to play in a higher league. But on promotion to the Premier League? Yes Villa are a bigger club and his best mate was there. But a huge contract offer might have tempeted him to stay at a club where he was loved by the fans and first name on the team-sheet. He didnt want to stay, and a huge factor in that, apart from the money was probably his belief that the club could not stay up, because the club was incapable/unwilling to do what it took to stay in the division.

[nutty nigel 7,528]

I'm guessing a few sighs of relief..