just back from st.andrews meeting

[lucky green trainers 0]

first - thanks for roy blower who conducted a fair meeting.  not one chant heard or unruliness in sight.second, attendence 500+  thats one on the chin to baz skipper and all the others who claim misleadingly the worthy out campaign is in a minority.  third,  seems to me a poll before hand, via a signed petition, not singing on the ball city beforehand (which less do each match anyway) and attending the pre-match rally at 2pm on saturday are all valid forms of protest which donot hurt the club.finally - its sad that its come to this but the awful performances of this season warrant it - pure and simple its time to go nigel

[Syteanric 1]

i was the chap who forgot Etuhus name and said that i didnt think nigel was a good manager, but a lucky manager and the lucks run out for him.

the whole thing will be available to listen to online...

only 3 worthy supporters turned up.

a great trun out and well handled by everyone.. the KTF''ers opinions were respected and welcomed.. even though only 1 of them spoke..

 i found the comments of the old timer who praised shacks interesting.. although i think he was bit TOO MUCH old time as he didnt like Rehman and SAffers.

i didnt like some of the stick Saffers got!

the guy who used to work for the academy had some excellent things to say! im glad he was there!

jas :)

 

[Web Team - Vince 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"]

the whole thing will be available to listen to online...

[/quote]Sorry Jas, everyone... failure - see http://new.pinkun.com/cs/forums/637616/ShowPost.aspx

[rocky marshall 0]

So 500 is a majority in relation to how many of 25,000 that didnt turn up but attend each week, even if added to the ''masses'' who couldn''t make it! Many would have benn there for good old nosiness and because they had nothing better to do!

And onto ''OTBC''! Fans are now unwilling to support THEIR team by refusing to sing THEIR anthem. Who exactly does this hurt? The players - most havent been here long enought to know any of the words; the management - theres hardly been any noise in carrow road this season anyway so whats the difference.

This action is pathetic and childlike - toys need to go back into the pram - and will only serve to highlight the club in a bad light. Most people with respected views on the situation both locally and nationally have alluded to the difficulties in re-establishing solidity in a post-relegation season. And its not only from prem down, its all through the league.

Most of the same fans that attended tonight would have been first in the queue under City Hall to cheer the League Champions or to applaude the team for giving their all to beat Man U, Charlton and Newcastle at the end of last season against massive odds.

Reality check. NCFC were in this division for 9 years before getting out again and went through how many managers?

Look at what happened to Ipswich when they got rid of Burley! No promotion, asset stripped and on the verge of backruptcy.

So for a meeting billed on addressing the current situation at Carrow Road, what is the ''current situation'' at Carrow Road and what objective solutions have been put forward outside of Sack him and Protest That.

Any constructive or all destructive?

[Pauly H 0]

[quote user="rocky marshall"]So 500 is a majority in relation to how many of 25,000 that didnt turn up but attend each week, even if added to the ''masses'' who couldn''t make it! Many would have benn there for good old nosiness and because they had nothing better to do![/quote]

 

Does it matter how many turned up? The fact is it was a cross section of support showing a massive majority in favour of a change!

[rocky marshall 0]

of course it matters! that might be all of the people. Was there a KTF meeting - no! so how many of them are out there?

This ''majority'' is a misnomer as there is no objective way of ascertaining how many would be in the ''minority.

Propaganda and spin from the WO campaign.

[We need a Manager 0]

Worthington is fast becoming hated by the City fans , the majority clearly want the man as far from Norwich as possible.

[silver fox 0]

Rocky why don''t you organise a keep Worthy in meeting and see if you get 500+ and then you might be able to argue your case better.  If the report of approx 3 Worthy in supporters there tonight is true then I think that speaks volumes.

[seedyrom 0]

I agree that short of Delia standing in the centre circle at the next home game and shouting ''Hands up who wants Nigel to stay ?'', we''ll never know the true figures abour the KTF/WO ratio. I think most people form their opinions on the matter by straw polls of the people they know/work/drink with. Probably the best way to gauge the genuine climate is to read what''s going on on as many City websites and fora as possible. And I have to say, I don''t know of one where the KTF''ers are in the majority.

[Snakepit Boy 0]

You write: "Look at what happened to Ipswich when they got rid of Burley! No promotion, asset stripped and on the verge of backruptcy."

We can all find examples to fit our arguments. So here is mine: "Look at what happened to Manchester United when they got rid of Ron Atkinson!"

You write: "Most of the same fans that attended tonight would have been first in the queue under City Hall to cheer the League Champions or to applaude the team for giving their all to beat Man U, Charlton and Newcastle."

Quite right - and so they should be listened to all the more when they now say enough is enough.

[rocky marshall 0]

this meeting was hardly billed as ''open duscussion of thepositives and negatives of the current season at Norwich City! NCISA have made a previous statement on their website regarding the need for CHANGE!

Out of 25000 that regularly attend CR, and given perhaps another 500 people added to tonights attendance, that still leaves 24,000 supporters who turn up to every home game who did not attend versus 500 (+500)!

24,000 = a very silent majority!

Why do I need a meeting when on Saturday at 3pm 25000 wll turn up to the match. I f you dont want to support the team or the regieme dont go! Have another meeting, listen to the text commentary of like so many on canary call watch the game on the radio.

As was stated on another post tonight there was a broad spectrum of support for tonights meeting. 10 year olds too. So since they were 5 they have known nothing but nigel and since they were 3 Bruce Rioch and Bryan Hamilton! What an informed and educational experience of sport they have had in their early years. Built on may experiences.

There are many ''wise'' long-toothes supporters who voice their concerns on here but always with balance. There are foibles to all managers and players (and supporters).

Hucks - great attacking, ? defending.

Andy Marshall - great shot stopper, poor kicker

Fnas - want togetherness in the good times, pointnig fingers in the bad times.

Its a two way street as far as im concerned. You take the rough with the smooth. When your marriage gets difficult you dont chuck your wife after 5 ears previous good service. You dont put your kids up for adoption because they''ve got growing pains and perhaps aren''t reaching your expectations.

It doesnyt mean you dont go to a councellor or involve their school to find out any underying circumstances.

HOWEVER, many of us would be unwilling to listen if the next door neighbour started handing out marriage advice or a relation started teling us how to bring up our kids after doing a fine job for 5 years.

The trend for five years at NCFC has been up. This year has been dissappointing but we havent had a catastrophe! Think of Man City and Sheff Weds who went another league down!

Therefore, come together again as fans, team and club and go forward. Not fans fighting team and team members, team questioning fans, fans fighting club, club upsetting fans. There is strength in numbers only where the woods can be seen for the trees. We dont know whre this might lead if we act in haste and without due diligence to history and what it teaches us. We cannot discount the past.

Nils carborundum illegitimi!

[Canaries for Ever 0]

silver fox wrote the following post at 02/03/2006 11:19 PM:

Rocky why don''t you organise a keep Worthy in meeting and see if you get 500+ and then you might be able to argue your case better.  If the report of approx 3 Worthy in supporters there tonight is true then I think that speaks volumes.

I don''t think he needs to - Worthy is already in!

[rocky marshall 0]

[quote user="Snakepit Boy"]

You write: "Look at what happened to Ipswich when they got rid of Burley! No promotion, asset stripped and on the verge of backruptcy."

We can all find examples to fit our arguments. So here is mine: "Look at what happened to Manchester United when they got rid of Ron Atkinson!"

You write: "Most of the same fans that attended tonight would have been first in the queue under City Hall to cheer the League Champions or to applaude the team for giving their all to beat Man U, Charlton and Newcastle."

Quite right - and so they should be listened to all the more when they now say enough is enough.

[/quote] Why listened to more now! What were they (the fans) voicing then - no discension as far as I could tell or you would have had to be brave to do it amid the celebrations. Fair point; we can all find reasons and examples to fit our argument. And thats the reason i made that point. We must see that change isnt always good and you have to accept some risk. Many fans think that it will be a quick fix to change things. But most replacements mentioned basically have built teams over a number of years. And not everey player brought in is going to be THE fix. Djemba-Demba anyone! And time shows us that people can have (very) short memories. But most were happy that David Bentley went only to now say he was a proper right winger and scores great goals. Look back at how many were ready to lynch him after Fulham! Did AF bring success immediately at Man U - NO. Did Nigel here - YES; saved the club from relegation and so on! Did Man U persevere with Alex through troubled times because they believe in theri man - YES. Many of us respect that because of his PAST record, not necessarily his current one. Are the club sticking with NW now for the same reasons - I think so.

[Yellow Rages 0]

I don''t want Worthy to stay but rocky is right in saying that that 500 hundred people hardly proves that outers are in the majority. What a silly statement.

As i''ve said before and will say again, I want him to go but, jesus people why do you get so carried away and make up nonesence?

Should their be a third group here of  WO REALISTS.  Or "WOR''s" Those who actually base their findings on fact. No wonder so many supporters take the mick out of our campaign when we can''t even base it on anything factual. Your as bad as the man himself.

[LinkNR9 0]

Rocky - this is the most incoherent and non-sensical input that has appeared on this site for a long time. I''ll have a pint of whatever you''re drinking, please. Why do you think the NCISA held the meeting tonight? They are hardly a supporters group that is extreme or reactionary in its views. The mere fact that they felt the need to hold the meeting tonight speaks volumes; they are a group that has a true concern of the way Norwich City are going down the pan at the moment, not KTF''s like you with their heads buried in the sand, holding on to some misguided belief that dear old Nigel "got us promoted once, so he can get us promoted again". Well, as someone so rightly said on here tonight, working on that logic, Worthington got us relegated last season, ergo, he can get us relegated again! 

Demos at Carrow Road. A slump in season ticket sales. ''Worthy Out'' chants at matches. Canaries fans having a go at each other on the terraces. The meeting tonight about which you''re so scornful. Are these events occurring because fans are happy with the situation?  "Come together again as fans, team and club and go forward", you say. What planet are you on? This Club, the fans and the Board have not been so divided since the Chase era - at least the fans were united then.  

"When your marriage gets difficult you don''t chuck your wife after 5 years previous good service." To use another analogy - your car has given you three years decent service but has let you down for the past two years. Do you hang on to it in the hope that it might magically get better and not let you down on the outside lane of the Southern By-pass? No, of course you don''t, you get a new car. 

The past two seasons have seen the continued decline of the team and only one person is responsible - Worthington. The increasingly hysterical and desperate ramblings of KTF''s like you and directors like Skipper fill me with joy - it signals to me the end of this awful management team is not far away. And not a moment too soon.    

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

of course there wasnt a KTF meeting...I believe loitering in phone boxes may be a criminal offence

[3pmkickoff 0]

Have to agree with Rocky on this one, 500 out of 20,000 season ticket holders is a small minority. I''ll be interested to see how many the protest attracts but I fear it will still be a small handful.

I think this season has been a harsh lesson. For Worthy it shows that supporters are fed up with ''hard work ethic'' over ''quality'' and won''t accept the standard of football much longer.

For the board, they''ve learnt a lesson in PR. The day after relegation Roger Mumby said live on Sky that money would be available for the summer. This gave the impression that funds would be available for solid strengthening but it became apparant that there wasn''t. We ended up with bosmans and not enough money to get quality.

[Tumbleweed 106]

rocky

I have a season ticket and I didn''t go. I live 160 miles away so it was a bit of a challenge. My brother has a season ticket and he didn''t go. He lives near Preston. My mother has a season ticket and din''t go because she was out for dinner with some freinds of hers. A couple of friends of mine didn''t go because they don''t do that sort of thing. Every one of the people I have mentioned wants Worthy to be replaced. They are all passionate supporters. I think 500 is a very significant turn out for this type of event. You should not assume that those who couldn''t or didn''t go all want Worthy to stay. It is impossible to get the 25000 at Carrow Road all to go to a meeting in the evening but no-one in my immediate circle of Norwich supporting friends and family wants Worthy to remain. Not one.

[maninyellowslacks 0]

using your argument as a base then no manager ever would be replaced as you should always take the rough with the smooth, but at what point does that rough patch become all there is.

Do you then go forward with that same manager regardless?

There are 3 options here

1. keep NW and hope
2. keep him allowing him to adapt the team and change the current form
3. sack him

No 1-finger in the wind time and not the way to runa ny business

No 2- he has had more then enough time as this is not a recent dip in form, this has been the case for the whole season

No3-my preferred choice as he has done all he can

You also state that many of us would be unwilling to listen to advice-that is sheer arrogance. We can all learn all of the time and those who believe they can''t are the ones in most need.Also if we had been doing a job fine for 5 years and then stopped doing it well we would look at that as to why the change and react to our findings. NW isn''t doing that as we have continued in the same vein for the majority of the season so far.

We obviously differ in our views but I do not see anything currently that I could view as hasty actions, more that an increasing number of fans are dissatisfied with the ongoing demise of their club and will not stand by and see this continue.

[Maverick 0]

[quote user="silver fox"]Rocky why don''t you organise a keep Worthy in meeting and see if you get 500+ and then you might be able to argue your case better.  If the report of approx 3 Worthy in supporters there tonight is true then I think that speaks volumes.[/quote]

 

I dont think it does ''speak volumes'' actually , silver.As has been mentioned on this thread already,the only agenda that had been mentioned in the build up to last night''s meeting was one of negativity.I dont recall an open invitation being given to those who wish for Worthy to stay.

There are plenty of KTF''s out there but I would imagine that only 3 turned up because they were probably afraid of being lynched.If this message board is anything to go by,anyone who dares to  speak in support of the current manager is subjected to some quite frankly ridiculous abuse and if I was one of them I would not have attended last night.

The fact is that very few of the 25000 who regularly attend home matches actually post on message boards and the like so it is impossible to know what they think.

I am in the ''not sure'' camp and I know lots of season ticket holders , casual supporters and radio only supporters that feel the same.Most of us can recognise the good work that Nigel has done since taking charge but also know that this seasons results aren''t good enough.

I would imagine that many of the 25000 that attend regularly fall into this category and I would imagine that some board members (in secret) fall into this category too.At present,though,NW is the man in possession and I personally want to see what he can do in terms of motivation etc to get the team through the last few meaningless games before I assess where I stand then.Changing the manager at this point in the season is pointless - we cant go up , we cant go down and there is no transfer window to change personnel.Leave him to it and wait until the Wolves game to let the board know what we all think.By then I''m sure NW will have made their minds up for them one way or the other.

I had better things to do last night by the way - along with 2 other ''not sures'' I went to see the Wonder Stuff at the Waterfront and was provided more entertainment for my £15 than I''ve got in the last 4 home games.

[The Judge 0]

Rocky,

You obviously strongly believe in your opinion and you back it logically in a reasoned manner. However I''m afraid you are in the minority. Stating that only 500 turned up which shows the rest are the "silent majority" in support of keeping the status quo - is a very niave thing to say & its the gamble the board are taking aswell.

Well I didn''t attend the meeting because I had to stay in a look after my son, and I''m sure you will find that there are 1000''s of others who have equally valid reasons for not attending - some may probably think they didn''t want to attend because they didn''t feel it would make any difference.

I think as one other poster said we will never know the true numbers unless an "official" poll is undertaken but as you know this will never happen - and if it did it would make the board change their mind anyway !

I don''t claim to know 1000''s of supporters - but what I do know is that I know alot, who in turn know more etc - and I have not heard of one person who does not want a change.

I don''t want to go over the old ground which has been debated time & time again on numerous posts - but just because worthington and he team brought success in the past doesn''t mean he will, or should be given the opportunity to do it again. Would you go and purchase a lottery ticket with the same numbers that won the jackpot last week ?? - ok their is a chance of them coming up again but its a hell of a big gamble.

You need to look at the facts as they stand NOW. Rubbish performances, no team work, terrible morale, substandard players, no organisation - and the most worrying thing of all NO sign of it getting consistantly better. This is what you need to base you decisions on - not what has happened in past.

[Plastic Scouser 0]

RockyIt would be a bit tight trying to get 20k plus into St Andrews Hall - anyway, let me apologise for not attending - it''s a bit of a long drag (250 miles each way) for a night out in the city!

[Cheeky Monkey 0]

Is Rocky Marshall, Andrew Cullen? It''s got to be one of the Marketing/PR boys down at the club.

Wake up and smell the future. A Worthy Free zone.

[Cheeky Monkey 0]

Rocky

I also have a season ticket and so does my father. Neither of us went because of commitments. However, we both want Worthy Out and we will both be there Saturday.

[gazban 0]

I think 500 is an enormous amount considering they are only going to discuss getting a manager out. It may only look like a few against the gate each week, but for them to make the effort to attend would indicate that there is a much greater ground swell of WOs than even I expected. Saturdays meet will be an even bigger indicator IMO. However, for me Brighton was the biggest show of WOs. The whole stadium was in protest and expect the same saturday unless Stoke dont bother to turn up and Huckerby has a blinder, like against Derby.

IMO 75% want Worthy out.

[ca 1]

I  too know many people who couldnt make it because of the distance involved but they all want a change in the Management/Coaching Team too.

Besides there was only seating for 600 last night so 520 was a great turnout on a freezing cold evening.

Maybe we need a vote from everyone as they enter the turnstiles, now that would give us a true reflection.

Well done NCISA last night, the meeting wa handled in a very fair, calm and constructive manner.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

I must admit I was surprised at the turnout, St Andrews hall was almost full!!  It takes a lot to get 500 people off their couches on a cold thursday night to attend a protest meeting about football....

I am sure their are thousands of fans unhappy with him, as well as thousands whom support him and thousands whom change with every result...

Its good the campaign is getting media attention because it will get more people thinking that perhaps he has had his time at norwich and needs to move on.

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

lets not forget in the midst of that Burley spent 4 million on a 2nd choice ''keeper

[still holding out for new heroes 0]

so its a better yardstick to judge someones abilities during meaningless games than over the course of 30 where there was something to play for?

[Salopian 1]

500 is only a small proportion, Rocky, I agree, but it''s a very good turn out on a frezing cold  midweek evening.There are many who will travel from various parts of the country to support at a match, but who clearly could not come all the way in difficult driving conditions for a short evening meeting. Many of these have season tickets, and with their round trip are heavily out of pocket. They are among the most committed supporters! I am not a season ticket holder, although I am a shareholder, and I can see the team only a few times a season. Thursday''s meeting was also out of the question for meDon''t assume that because people were not there at the meeting they are not angry and despairing