Trains, strikes etc

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

BA workers at Heathrow threatening strike action now. I wonder if we're heading for a 'Summer of Discontent'?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we see civil unrest in the not too distant future.

 

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Mick Lynch is on Question Time tonight.....in front of a partisan crowd no doubt....

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

Mick Lynch is on Question Time tonight.....in front of a partisan crowd no doubt....

And they sent out Rachel MacLean to counter all the siht that Boris and his forty thieves have piled up upon pile.

[sonyc 5,541]

36 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

And they sent out Rachel MacLean to counter all the siht that Boris and his forty thieves have piled up upon pile.

Made a conscious decision to watch (for once) but very quickly I felt dismayed at how Fiona Bruce 'chairs' the programme. Shall not watch again until there is at least a neutral chairperson in place. She should stick with antiques. It's the same for the Today programme. I switched to R3 many years ago for my early morning listening. More uplifting. Our media (and maybe this is not a universally popular take) feels extremely middle class and right of centre. I suppose that's why Etonians and their like have run the country for so many years over a century.

There seems to be a real dislike ...or maybe that should be a mistrust ...of working class people, of unions etc. We might all find fault with Mick Lynch for many reasons (or not) but he is responsible simply for trying to secure the best interests of his members and workers. And does someone who works for himself and employs people in a small company really have the authority to tell a railway worker and trade union leader that he is ridiculous?

Another called striking "archaic". Is poverty 'archaic'? Or going to a food bank archaic? 

The trouble with a populist government is that it tends to shift folk more to the right. It feels incredible that what used to be called values (morals? ...ethics?) as well as the standards of civic discourse and propriety in public life seem so corrupted. When one audience member actually alluded to this ih a question it was received in silence and was barely opened up.

It's grim watching really.

Just have to hope the by elections bring more hopeful messages later this morning.

Edited June 23, 2022 by sonyc

[sonyc 5,541]

5 hours ago, sonyc said:

Just have to hope the by elections bring more hopeful messages later this morning.

Turns out that a good majority of people are decent and liberal. The days are numbered for his Johnson government, for the low intellect cabinet sychophants who are prepared to stand behind all manner of poor governance and for everyone who supports it. Well do e Tiverton, Honiton and Wakefield 👏👏👏. Faith restored.

[horsefly 4,310]

21 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Turns out that a good majority of people are decent and liberal. The days are numbered for his Johnson government, for the low intellect cabinet sychophants who are prepared to stand behind all manner of poor governance and for everyone who supports it. Well do e Tiverton, Honiton and Wakefield 👏👏👏. Faith restored.

Here, here! Even the lamentable and obsequious Oliver Dowden has finally had enough of apologising for Johnson's depraved and corrupt leadership. https://inews.co.uk/news/oliver-dowden-quits-as-tory-party-chairman-after-by-election-defeats-in-wakefield-and-tiverton-and-honiton-1704049

[Herman 9,820]

11 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's not that simple though is it.

It's only some of the train companies that are on strike but it's become a national issue because network rail staff are on strike.  And as far as I know network rail is nationalised and doesn't pay millions of pounds in dividends to any individual.

I'm not saying  these strikes are wrong, I don't know  the full details well enough.  However, I am yet to see a justification great enough to justify the disruption the strikes are causing, let alone the implications of any pay deal.

 

 

I stumbled across this earlier. I had one bit of confirmation that this is true but you are free to take it with a pinch of salt.

 

[Thumbbass 322]

12 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

BA workers at Heathrow threatening strike action now. I wonder if we're heading for a 'Summer of Discontent'?

Wouldn't surprise me at all if we see civil unrest in the not too distant future.

 

I think the BA strike is totally justified. Company reneging on 10% pay recovery once the industry is back after COVID. Rail workers did not take a pay cut during COVID, but some have had a pay freeze, so a real terms reduction in income. 

Issues on the London line this morning and there was a charm offensive by GA staff the likes I've never ever seen before. Perhaps if they were as proactive each time disruption happened instead of hiding behind the barriers, drinking coffee, and chatting with their workmates I'd feel more comfortable that they were fighting for better pay and no redundancies. Usually it's left to one bloke to deal with 100s of disgruntled customers. 

[Barbe bleu 832]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

I stumbled across this earlier. I had one bit of confirmation that this is true but you are free to take it with a pinch of salt.

 

Thanks Herman.i would always take tweets by actors with a prior position with a pinch of salt but even the most biased and edited source has value 

  I wish the media in general would supply and analyse to this level of detail but clicks and views are gained by short articles that capture emotions rather than facts-  its unfortunately the world we live in (or perhaps its only what I consume....)

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 hours ago, sonyc said:

Made a conscious decision to watch (for once) but very quickly I felt dismayed at how Fiona Bruce 'chairs' the programme. Shall not watch again until there is at least a neutral chairperson in place. She should stick with antiques. It's the same for the Today programme. I switched to R3 many years ago for my early morning listening. More uplifting. Our media (and maybe this is not a universally popular take) feels extremely middle class and right of centre. I suppose that's why Etonians and their like have run the country for so many years over a century.

There seems to be a real dislike ...or maybe that should be a mistrust ...of working class people, of unions etc. We might all find fault with Mick Lynch for many reasons (or not) but he is responsible simply for trying to secure the best interests of his members and workers. And does someone who works for himself and employs people in a small company really have the authority to tell a railway worker and trade union leader that he is ridiculous?

Another called striking "archaic". Is poverty 'archaic'? Or going to a food bank archaic? 

The trouble with a populist government is that it tends to shift folk more to the right. It feels incredible that what used to be called values (morals? ...ethics?) as well as the standards of civic discourse and propriety in public life seem so corrupted. When one audience member actually alluded to this ih a question it was received in silence and was barely opened up.

It's grim watching really.

Just have to hope the by elections bring more hopeful messages later this morning.

I guess we are all guilty of asking a question even though we don't listen to the reply. But last night's attacks on Lynch by some of the audience were obviously from pompous "middle class" shareholders who are pished off with Boris and will lash out at people like Mick rather than admit its their pinup who has got it wrong.

While the Thatcher years were awful and very much marmite times, her controversy was around her policies. Not even the staunchest left wing voter could say she wasn't competent.

Cannot people see that all Johnson's controversies are around his personality, mistakes and obvious incompetence.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Thanks Herman.i would always take tweets by actors with a prior position with a pinch of salt but even the most biased and edited source has value 

  I wish the media in general would supply and analyse to this level of detail but clicks and views are gained by short articles that capture emotions rather than facts-  its unfortunately the world we live in (or perhaps its only what I consume....)

 

I know the media is supposed to be balanced and ask questions that are those that Outraged of Ascot would write to the Telegraph about. But as you say, the questions they keep asking Lynch are all about what they are looking to gain. They are not asking about when overtime was worth working because it was double time but now is virtually for the same money. Its pointed at a signalman being able to read book waiting for a train.

Why don't they ask Rees Mogg what he does all day? What does he do. **** all is what. What pin stripe suit should he wear today? His company just invests the money created by people standing at lathes or filling shelves and worrying what they can afford rather than should they invest high or medium risk without fear of failure.

[Herman 9,820]

They're taking the mick.

 

[Herman 9,820]

Have you ever heard the phrase "swivel eyed loon"? A perfect explainer of its meaning.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Have you ever heard the phrase "swivel eyed loon"? A perfect explainer of its meaning.

 

I said to Mrs KG as we watched that on Thursday, that despite her idea, there are still some dinosaurs around that make stupid remarks on QT.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Why are Labour MP's not allowed on picket lines? has it something to do with this James Connolly chap and unfinished business Starmer has to carry out for his establishment friends?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

23 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Why are Labour MP's not allowed on picket lines? has it something to do with this James Connolly chap and unfinished business Starmer has to carry out for his establishment friends?

I have never understood the objection to peaceful picketing and why others shouldn't join them, especially Labour MPs considering the heritage of the Party.

[Herman 9,820]

32 minutes ago, nevermind, neoliberalism has had it said:

Why are Labour MP's not allowed on picket lines? has it something to do with this James Connolly chap and unfinished business Starmer has to carry out for his establishment friends?

No, it's because the right wing press and tories desperately want Starmer to so they can use it as another divide and rule/culture war battleground. Starmer is too intelligent to fall for it. Think what the opposition wants you to do and don't do it.

[Fen Canary 866]

On 23/06/2022 at 19:42, Thumbbass said:

I've spoken to a signaller who said they sit and watch films on their phone all day, I can't remember what he said he was earning but it was a decent salary, over £40k. Might have been bluster, maybe. Hasn't helped my overall opinion.

I don't question why the strikes are happening, I just don't support it. If 50% of striking workers are on more than £36kpa, £11k above the UK average, is paying them more not just lining the pockets of the wealthier in society at the expense of those who rely on the network - most of whom will be earning less. These are private companies with shareholders who will not accept a reduction in profit so the increase will come from commuters.

Why is what they’re earning relevant to them striking? With inflation running at double digits then any pay rise less than that means they are essentially receiving a pay cut. Why should the workers work for less than they were yesterday? If those privatised train companies can’t make a profit then that’s their fault for tendering too low, and it should be those at the top who wear that mistake.

The fact Labour hasn’t backed these strikes is shameful. You expect it from the Tories but if Starmer can’t back workers then it shows how far Labour has moved from its traditional reason for existing 

[Herman 9,820]

18 hours ago, Herman said:

No, it's because the right wing press and tories desperately want Starmer to so they can use it as another divide and rule/culture war battleground. Starmer is too intelligent to fall for it. Think what the opposition wants you to do and don't do it.

 

4 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Why is what they’re earning relevant to them striking? With inflation running at double digits then any pay rise less than that means they are essentially receiving a pay cut. Why should the workers work for less than they were yesterday? If those privatised train companies can’t make a profit then that’s their fault for tendering too low, and it should be those at the top who wear that mistake.

The fact Labour hasn’t backed these strikes is shameful. You expect it from the Tories but if Starmer can’t back workers then it shows how far Labour has moved from its traditional reason for existing 

That's the reason. Because of the way our rancid press and government behaves Starmer always has to play it carefully. There will come a time, hopefully, where he will slap a few heads, but at the moment he has to play the long game and take it sensibly.

[Daz Sparks 1,182]

22 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

I said to Mrs KG as we watched that on Thursday, that despite her idea, there are still some dinosaurs around that make stupid remarks on QT.

 

Yep, the Karenosaurus Rex is alive and well where it can freely feed on Daily Mail/Express, garnished with a generous dash of UKIP. 

[Fen Canary 866]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

 

That's the reason. Because of the way our rancid press and government behaves Starmer always has to play it carefully. There will come a time, hopefully, where he will slap a few heads, but at the moment he has to play the long game and take it sensibly.

I think blaming the press is a cop out to be honest. For every right wing rag there’s a left wing one, and the presenters on news outlets such as the BBC and C4 etc are much more likely to be Guardian readers than Daily Mail ones. Using the media as an excuse for Starmers poor performance (he still polls behind Johnson in the preferred PM stakes) simply distracts from the issue at hand.

After a few years into the job I’ve still no idea what Starmer stands for, or what he plans to do if elected. His policy seems to rely on “not being Boris”, which is fine while Johnson is sliding in the polls but can backfire quite quickly if he’s replaced or regains popularity. I thought their performance at the recent by election was fairly poor, despite winning the seat back. To only gain 8% when the Tories lost 16% with everything that’s currently going on wasn’t a great result in my eyes despite how it’s been celebrated.

But back to the rail strikes, if Labour want to win back seats in the working class constituencies they need to show they’re on the side of workers. Sitting on the fence in a battle between staff and wealthy shareholders isn’t a good look 

[Yellow Fever 3,824]

Starmer wants to win the next election. It's as simple as that. To do that much as per Herman  says he has to avoid being painted as left wing radical by the Tories and their pet media attack dogs. 

So far he's playing his hand brilliantly which is why the Tories and media are only feeding off paltry scraps.

[horsefly 4,310]

11 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Why is what they’re earning relevant to them striking? With inflation running at double digits then any pay rise less than that means they are essentially receiving a pay cut. Why should the workers work for less than they were yesterday? If those privatised train companies can’t make a profit then that’s their fault for tendering too low, and it should be those at the top who wear that mistake.

The fact Labour hasn’t backed these strikes is shameful. You expect it from the Tories but if Starmer can’t back workers then it shows how far Labour has moved from its traditional reason for existing 

Blimey! I actually agree with your first paragraph. But I needn't have worried, the second paragraph is nonsense. If Labour were the government would you say they should back the strikes? Of course not. So why would a Labour government in waiting support them? Their position is clear; all workers have a right to strike and the government should be doing what it can to facilitate a negotiated agreement between the RMT and the employers.  Labour traditionally represents the interests of ALL workers, which includes both the strikers and the workers inconvenienced by the strikes. There is nothing remotely shameful in holding a position that seeks the best outcome for ALL workers.

[KernowCanary 214]

I wouldn’t be shocked if rioting and looting escalated from all this. The looters in 2011 blamed the recession for it last time, but that was more of an excuse than anything else. “Civil unrest” was the political definition of it.

I don’t condone such acts, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it came to that.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

10 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

I think blaming the press is a cop out to be honest. For every right wing rag there’s a left wing one, and the presenters on news outlets such as the BBC and C4 etc are much more likely to be Guardian readers than Daily Mail ones. Using the media as an excuse for Starmers poor performance (he still polls behind Johnson in the preferred PM stakes) simply distracts from the issue at hand.

After a few years into the job I’ve still no idea what Starmer stands for, or what he plans to do if elected. His policy seems to rely on “not being Boris”, which is fine while Johnson is sliding in the polls but can backfire quite quickly if he’s replaced or regains popularity. I thought their performance at the recent by election was fairly poor, despite winning the seat back. To only gain 8% when the Tories lost 16% with everything that’s currently going on wasn’t a great result in my eyes despite how it’s been celebrated.

But back to the rail strikes, if Labour want to win back seats in the working class constituencies they need to show they’re on the side of workers. Sitting on the fence in a battle between staff and wealthy shareholders isn’t a good look 

The policies of the Labour Party are very difficult to work out. Belair thought establishing the Minimum Wage and Good Friday agreement was enough because he believed the old Labour values weren't suitable for modern Britain. In fact he still relied on market forces and a boom to transform his ideas into acceptance by the left, even the removal of clause 4. But he lost the left with Iraq.

Of course JC moved the Party back to the left and it was popular for a while but his indecision over Brexit was a vote loser.

Now SKS has moved the Party back to the Centre Right and lost people like myself and others who have left the Party. His policies have too much of do whats popular and not whats right.

[canarydan23 4,060]

What's the point of Labour getting into power if it just hands influence to schmucks like David Lammy...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/26/labour-heathrow-airline-staff-pay-dispute-unions-david-lammy

There are staff who had a 10% pay cut imposed on them due to the pandemic who are being told that "temporary" pay cut may not be so temporary. The same staff who are watching their senior staff receive pay rises, and they just want parity with what they were on pre-pandemic.

And Labour won't support that? What's the point of them? "Vote for us, we'll be just like the Tories"? Get to ****. Honestly, they've no right to call themselves the Labour Party anymore; it used to be deceitful which you can accept because they're politicians. But David Lammy's comments today means that it's now downright fraudulent to call themselves it.

Honestly, get to ****. I left the Labour Party a few months into Starmer's leadership when it became apparent that he was flagrantly lied to win votes in the leadership contest but I remained a voter. After Lammy's comments today I'm incensed to the point that I can't even bring myself to vote for them at the moment.

I'll say it again; these are workers asking for the reversal of a 10% pay cut allegedly imposed due to Covid but are now told its here to stay. And the CEO of the parent company of their employer will receive his full salary after taking a cut last year. And David Lammy is saying he will not support these workers. A Labour MP.

Get. To. ****. Vacuous charlatan who only gives a **** about getting access to a ministerial limo and fancy government department to **** up.

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

8 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

What's the point of Labour getting into power if it just hands influence to schmucks like David Lammy...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jun/26/labour-heathrow-airline-staff-pay-dispute-unions-david-lammy

There are staff who had a 10% pay cut imposed on them due to the pandemic who are being told that "temporary" pay cut may not be so temporary. The same staff who are watching their senior staff receive pay rises, and they just want parity with what they were on pre-pandemic.

And Labour won't support that? What's the point of them? "Vote for us, we'll be just like the Tories"? Get to ****. Honestly, they've no right to call themselves the Labour Party anymore; it used to be deceitful which you can accept because they're politicians. But David Lammy's comments today means that it's now downright fraudulent to call themselves it.

Honestly, get to ****. I left the Labour Party a few months into Starmer's leadership when it became apparent that he was flagrantly lied to win votes in the leadership contest but I remained a voter. After Lammy's comments today I'm incensed to the point that I can't even bring myself to vote for them at the moment.

I'll say it again; these are workers asking for the reversal of a 10% pay cut allegedly imposed due to Covid but are now told its here to stay. And the CEO of the parent company of their employer will receive his full salary after taking a cut last year. And David Lammy is saying he will not support these workers. A Labour MP.

Get. To. ****. Vacuous charlatan who only gives a **** about getting access to a ministerial limo and fancy government department to **** up.

Join the Green Party would be my advice - seems to be a pretty well travelled path for disillusioned Labout Party members/supporters.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Join the Green Party would be my advice - seems to be a pretty well travelled path for disillusioned Labout Party members/supporters.

I won't join them, but almost feel forced to vote them given the current Labour Party. I suspect millions of their voters are similarly-minded but due to FPTP reluctantly vote Labour because they're not the Tories.

That is just about the only positive thing the Labour Party has going for them currently, not being Tories.

[KernowCanary 214]

All this “Summer of Discontent” sounds like scaremongering to me.

The trains nearby me are running again on their original timetable, Glastonbury was back on and the airport issues will sort themselves out.

[Herman 9,820]

Left Camden at 11pm. Got home at 1.30am. The knock on effects from the strikes is a pain in the aris but I still agree with why they are doing it.