Sinani

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

22 hours ago, KeiranShikari said:

I don't think he's been fantastic but there were a few spells in games under Smith in which I thought it appeard to be coming together. I remember being surprised at the quality of a few balls he put into the box and he's obviously greased lightning. Those 2 things could make him a handy option under a manger playing a simpler game.

 

Yep, I think he suffers from the fact we don't play with a big guy up top, and in fact I would go as far to say as he was brought as a plan B for Hugill to have something to attack. No point asking a speedster like Placheta to thread channel balls in for Pukki to chase, and Pukki's not going to win headers regularly. Net result is, Placheta has to re-jig his game - and that's not his game.

Chuck in that Hugill was only ever coming on for short bursts to relieve Pukki and therefore was never quite going to be fully match-sharp, and Placheta's got no-one to aim at. He can hit a good cross and I do think he causes trouble when he cuts inside and hits one, but that skillset didn't fit into Farke's attacking unit.

If Idah and Sargent were both up there, I think Placheta could look more dangerous.

[Jersey Canary 149]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

If you ever get to speak to one of our players whilst in the city or whatever, you'll find they agree with you. With our current team, they'd all put Kenny in the side.

Dean Smith would put Kenny in the side.

Shakespeare would put Kenny in the side.

Farke would put Kenny in the side.

Darren Easie would put Kenny in the side.

Simon Lappin would put Kenny in the side.

But, according to a few posters on here, they're all wrong and isn't even good enough at Championship level (despite having two titles to his name).

That’s only down to the lack of alternatives.  

If we had a half decent alternative Kenny will be toast. As I said before Sorensen came in for a couple of games and played really well and we looked dangerous. Literally as soon as Sorensen went off injured against Watford (I think) it was after about 30 mins it was instantly noticeable Norwich’s performance dropped off considerably and managed to cling on. The result was better than the performance. 

[hogesar 9,776]

1 minute ago, Jersey Canary said:

That’s only down to the lack of alternatives.  

If we had a half decent alternative Kenny will be toast. As I said before Sorensen came in for a couple of games and played really well and we looked dangerous. Literally as soon as Sorensen went off injured against Watford (I think) it was after about 30 mins it was instantly noticeable Norwich’s performance dropped off considerably and managed to cling on. The result was better than the performance. 

We looked far worse without McLean for the last few games. Sorensen had one decent half and has much worse offensive stats than McLean and slightly worse defensive. McLean is a better all round midfielder than Sorensen.

[Jersey Canary 149]

17 minutes ago, hogesar said:

We looked far worse without McLean for the last few games. Sorensen had one decent half and has much worse offensive stats than McLean and slightly worse defensive. McLean is a better all round midfielder than Sorensen.

Sorensen is not a left sided midfielder and yet he’s more affective when given a chance than Kenny.  Like I said earlier, Sorensen doesn’t seem to be the answer neither but in my view a better alternative than Kenny and he’s still learning. Sorensen seems to have a footballing brain however is not bless with pace which is his problem, but being able to think quicker helps. 

It’ll be interesting to see the stats Norwich with Kenny playing and Norwich without.  I don’t think Kenny’s stats will be a ringing endorsement for him to play each week. 

[hogesar 9,776]

5 minutes ago, Jersey Canary said:

Sorensen is not a left sided midfielder and yet he’s more affective when given a chance than Kenny.  Like I said earlier, Sorensen doesn’t seem to be the answer neither but in my view a better alternative than Kenny and he’s still learning. Sorensen seems to have a footballing brain however is not bless with pace which is his problem, but being able to think quicker helps. 

It’ll be interesting to see the stats Norwich with Kenny playing and Norwich without.  I don’t think Kenny’s stats will be a ringing endorsement for him to play each week. 

He might be a better alternative in your opinion, but he's not in the eye of our other players, our current manager and coaches, our previous manager and coaches, and two former ex professionals who have been asked.

[Nuff Said 5,191]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Yep, I think he suffers from the fact we don't play with a big guy up top, and in fact I would go as far to say as he was brought as a plan B for Hugill to have something to attack. No point asking a speedster like Placheta to thread channel balls in for Pukki to chase, and Pukki's not going to win headers regularly. Net result is, Placheta has to re-jig his game - and that's not his game.

Chuck in that Hugill was only ever coming on for short bursts to relieve Pukki and therefore was never quite going to be fully match-sharp, and Placheta's got no-one to aim at. He can hit a good cross and I do think he causes trouble when he cuts inside and hits one, but that skillset didn't fit into Farke's attacking unit.

If Idah and Sargent were both up there, I think Placheta could look more dangerous.

I’m normally not one to condemn our players, but the only way Placheta would be dangerous would be if we gave him an AK47 before kickoff. Even then, he’d probably fire it off-target.

[Move Klose 303]

1 hour ago, Jersey Canary said:

Sorensen is not a left sided midfielder and yet he’s more affective when given a chance than Kenny.  Like I said earlier, Sorensen doesn’t seem to be the answer neither but in my view a better alternative than Kenny and he’s still learning. Sorensen seems to have a footballing brain however is not bless with pace which is his problem, but being able to think quicker helps. 

It’ll be interesting to see the stats Norwich with Kenny playing and Norwich without.  I don’t think Kenny’s stats will be a ringing endorsement for him to play each week. 

Would imagine Kennys stats would like quite good at championship level compared to Premier league, just like the rest of the squad.

Sorensen is just another one who gets better the less he plays. Not mobile or athletic enough to ever be anything but championship level 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

21 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You what?

Kenny is not good enough in the PL, but he's shown by his presence in not one but two Championship winning sides that he's more than capable at this level. 

I've listed statistic after statistic in the Premier League in which he was one of our top performing players. To say he's not good enough for a top Championship side is absolute nonsense and just shows you don't know a footballer is one smacked you in your empty head. 

Many people over the years have had differing opinions on players. Plenty of clubs have let go of players who they believed were not good enough only for them to be worth millions later. Remember Chelsea let both Mo Salah and Kevin De Bruyne go because they thought neither was good enough. Just because someone doesn’t rate a player doesn’t mean they are always right. Just as it doesn’t always mean they are wrong either. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

If you ever get to speak to one of our players whilst in the city or whatever, you'll find they agree with you. With our current team, they'd all put Kenny in the side.

Dean Smith would put Kenny in the side.

Shakespeare would put Kenny in the side.

Farke would put Kenny in the side.

Darren Easie would put Kenny in the side.

Simon Lappin would put Kenny in the side.

But, according to a few posters on here, they're all wrong and isn't even good enough at Championship level (despite having two titles to his name).

This idea that someone is right or wrong because their option doesn’t match yours is a little concerning. There’s no such thing as the right or wrong player only a system and playing style that gets the best from a player or not. 
 

i rate McLean for what it’s worth but now in my own humble of opinions he should be used as a squad player not a first choice starter. I would very much like us to strengthen the middle of our pitch an area that we have been very week in over a majority of the last 4 seasons. 

[hogesar 9,776]

38 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

This idea that someone is right or wrong because their option doesn’t match yours is a little concerning. There’s no such thing as the right or wrong player only a system and playing style that gets the best from a player or not. 
 

i rate McLean for what it’s worth but now in my own humble of opinions he should be used as a squad player not a first choice starter. I would very much like us to strengthen the middle of our pitch an area that we have been very week in over a majority of the last 4 seasons. 

I personally think its a bit egotistical if an ordinary football fan thinks they know better than 2 sets of professional management and coaches and 2 ex players, especially when they don't really give me much to base it on, and when fans are known for picking a 'scapegoat' more often than not.

[king canary 7,681]

3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Yep, I think he suffers from the fact we don't play with a big guy up top, and in fact I would go as far to say as he was brought as a plan B for Hugill to have something to attack. No point asking a speedster like Placheta to thread channel balls in for Pukki to chase, and Pukki's not going to win headers regularly. Net result is, Placheta has to re-jig his game - and that's not his game.

Chuck in that Hugill was only ever coming on for short bursts to relieve Pukki and therefore was never quite going to be fully match-sharp, and Placheta's got no-one to aim at. He can hit a good cross and I do think he causes trouble when he cuts inside and hits one, but that skillset didn't fit into Farke's attacking unit.

If Idah and Sargent were both up there, I think Placheta could look more dangerous.

I think you're right that that is why he was bought but I don't think he's remotely good enough. He's fast but barely has a footballing brain and doesn't really seem to know how to use his pace to any real end.

I'd cut our losses.

[canarybubbles 1,951]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

We looked far worse without McLean for the last few games. Sorensen had one decent half and has much worse offensive stats than McLean and slightly worse defensive. McLean is a better all round midfielder than Sorensen.

Perhaps. But McLean has had four seasons as a midfielder; Sorensen has had maybe four games. I'd prefer to compare them once Sorensen has had a run of games in midfield (although that won't happen, so I guess it's all moot).

[hogesar 9,776]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think you're right that that is why he was bought but I don't think he's remotely good enough. He's fast but barely has a footballing brain and doesn't really seem to know how to use his pace to any real end.

I'd cut our losses.

Yeah and if Farke couldn't get any sort of footballing brain out of him I dont think many will.

Maybe as a traditional down the line winger (head down, run to byline and cross) he could prove effective at championship level but ill admit to having not seen real evidence of that. I would say under Smith he seemed pretty tactically disciplined, just offensively ineffective.

[canarybubbles 1,951]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yeah and if Farke couldn't get any sort of footballing brain out of him I dont think many will.

Maybe as a traditional down the line winger (head down, run to byline and cross) he could prove effective at championship level but ill admit to having not seen real evidence of that. I would say under Smith he seemed pretty tactically disciplined, just offensively ineffective.

Maybe that's the kind of player Smith is looking for, with a big lump up front to head the crosses. Means getting rid of Pukki but I get the feeling Smith would be much happier with a more basic style of football.

[hogesar 9,776]

5 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

Maybe that's the kind of player Smith is looking for, with a big lump up front to head the crosses. Means getting rid of Pukki but I get the feeling Smith would be much happier with a more basic style of football.

I doubt it, its not how he's played with Brentford or Villa.

[canarybubbles 1,951]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I doubt it, its not how he's played with Brentford or Villa.

I know, lots of people say this. But from what I saw last season, he has the vision of a potato. Anyway, there's no point our arguing about it. He's going nowhere, so let's see what happens next season.

[hogesar 9,776]

2 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I know, lots of people say this. But from what I saw last season, he has the vision of a potato. Anyway, there's no point our arguing about it. He's going nowhere, so let's see what happens next season.

Yes, but last season Farke had already proven that a pure passing game was out of our reach. Smith tried to find a formula with what he had, and personally think he found the most effective with Idah, Pukki and Sargent in the team. He wasn't trying to build a playing style or identity and said as such.

He did introduce a playing style to both Brentford and Villa though, just ask their fans. He was also sacked by Villa when 15th and Gerrard, with the added benefit of Coutinho, finished 14th.

[canarybubbles 1,951]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Yes, but last season Farke had already proven that a pure passing game was out of our reach. Smith tried to find a formula with what he had, and personally think he found the most effective with Idah, Pukki and Sargent in the team. He wasn't trying to build a playing style or identity and said as such.

He did introduce a playing style to both Brentford and Villa though, just ask their fans. He was also sacked by Villa when 15th and Gerrard, with the added benefit of Coutinho, finished 14th.

Fair enough. We've all been round these arguments time and time again. You could probably write my posts and I could write yours.

If, by Christmas, we are in an automatic spot playing attractive football, I'll admit I'm wrong.

[fredherring 136]

Pinkun posting geniuses are still saying McLean is rubbish and sorenson is the answer 😂

Omg wtf is wrong with you people? 

Sorenson is a donkey. He's never, ever, going to make it as a first choice midfielder in a championship side. 

McLean has been consistently picked, with training and stats aplenty, by two experienced manager and international coaches. 

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you? 

[Indy 3,323]

7 hours ago, hogesar said:

No, they didn't build a Premier League squad. They had a squad with one or two Premier League players, a good manager, momentum, some overperforming players and a one-off January signing like Eriksen. 

Mclean gets the managers nod, multiple managers nod, and his teammates nod too. Ask any of our first team if they'd rather play with Sorensen in the middle next season or Mclean.

The fact he doesn't get in half our fans XI isn't really a defense, we've seen historically how wrong they get it time after time after time (Vrancic is a league one player at best, Holt is a fat waster, Pukk is a Celtic reject, I could go on)

You’re view, but again I point out that he’s not good enough for the premier league, two seasons in the top flight he and others have proved not good enough! Surely a new manager needs more changes than to keep a decent championship player of a few seasons ago! People are going on about getting Hernandez, Hugill, Sinani back and giving them next season! So how can anyone defend that we need Smith to assemble his team style and squad! You can’t keep all the failing players and think it’ll be different next time!

Changes needed this summer, big changes in that utterly rubbish midfield! When there’s limited choices McLean is still not a very good choice, it’s funny how not many other top clubs at our level haven’t been linked to him! Each to their own but for me I would like to see sweeping changes to a more youthful, athletic & energetic midfield.

[hogesar 9,776]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

You’re view, but again I point out that he’s not good enough for the premier league, two seasons in the top flight he and others have proved not good enough! Surely a new manager needs more changes than to keep a decent championship player of a few seasons ago! People are going on about getting Hernandez, Hugill, Sinani back and giving them next season! So how can anyone defend that we need Smith to assemble his team style and squad! You can’t keep all the failing players and think it’ll be different next time!

Changes needed this summer, big changes in that utterly rubbish midfield! When there’s limited choices McLean is still not a very good choice, it’s funny how not many other top clubs at our level haven’t been linked to him! Each to their own but for me I would like to see sweeping changes to a more youthful, athletic & energetic midfield.

McLean was linked with West Ham a couple seasons ago. I dont disagree the midfield needs significant work I just don't think getting rid of McLean makes any logical sense whatsoever this season and I'm glad the club will agree with me on that one!

[Branston Pickle 3,709]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

McLean was linked with West Ham a couple seasons ago. I dont disagree the midfield needs significant work I just don't think getting rid of McLean makes any logical sense whatsoever this season and I'm glad the club will agree with me on that one!

Definitely - yes, areas of the squad need an overhaul, but finances at least dictate you do it bit by bit, and certainly not by binning someone who’s started in almost every game he’s been available for over the last 4 years.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Branston Pickle

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

Too many comments here to address them all, but those posters who ranked Hernandez below Placheta in the pecking order are on something. Placheta may be fast but he doesn’t have anything close to a footballing brain. Hernandez has shown in the past that he does, and his last Champs season was ravaged by injury. I’d love to have him back as the changing room could use some positivity and confidence and Onel radiates both.

McLean isn’t my first choice at EPL level but he’s a top 6 Champs midfielder easily. No question he’ll be in or close to the starting 11 regardless of who we sign in the summer.

Would like to see Sinani given a go. He played a regular role in the 5th-highest team in this league, his first season in English football. He’s gotta be worth a shot and a place in the squad.

Our problem is still that we need to replace Emi and Skipp. I think the passage of time has blinded some to just how integral Emi was last Champs season, we haven’t come anywhere close to replacing his aggression, his ball-winning, his control or his telepathic connection with Pukki. Add in the loss of Steipermann and Vrancic and you start to realise that the team that stormed the league last time has had the bulk of the talent assists ripped out. Right now I wonder if Teemu is confident that he’ll get enough service to score the number of goals we know he’s capable of in this league.

[Jersey Canary 149]

4 hours ago, hogesar said:

He might be a better alternative in your opinion, but he's not in the eye of our other players, our current manager and coaches, our previous manager and coaches, and two former ex professionals who have been asked.

There is obviously something not quite right with Sorensen hence me saying he’s not the answer.  
Kenny for me is another Hugill, probably great in the changing room, trains really well, tries really hard in matches but he’s very limited in ability. 

[Kingston Yellow 224]

On 01/06/2022 at 22:33, Move Klose said:

Hes so good he finished the season on loan at Birmingham

Wow.
 

No point having a debate with an idiot. 

[Canario 211]

It's an interesting one on our Kenny. Think the majority have it right - easily top end champs level individually. 

The issue of course is that it's a team game. The comment around the Watford game is pretty spot on. Sorenson goes off and the midfield is lost. Kenny is probably a better all round football than lungi. However, he's a master at charging about and leaving gaps all over the place. Probably why he also looks so much better in the champs as the positional indiscipline isn't punished.

If he was a better finisher I'd be tempted to just stick him at number ten in the "stiepi" role. No issue if he wanders about and put Sorenson / another positionally sound cm in behind.

At his age I doubt we'd get much sale value and as such he's worth keeping. 

Even Sorenson as dm with Kenny and Plm in front would probably be enough at champs level. 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Canario
Stiepi not "stupid" tho both prob apply!!

[Yobocop 1,105]

9 hours ago, Move Klose said:

100000000% won't be here come August. Whether that's a loan or permanent time will tell.

I think if the club can get their money back and a % sell on then he will leave permanently.

It's pretty much common knowledge that he will be gone this summer.

Haven’t seen anything official other than a bit of hear say on these boards 

personally think we’re making an error if that does happen as he will light up the championship 

[Jersey Canary 149]

6 hours ago, Move Klose said:

Would imagine Kennys stats would like quite good at championship level compared to Premier league, just like the rest of the squad.

Sorensen is just another one who gets better the less he plays. Not mobile or athletic enough to ever be anything but championship level 

You’re missing the point. Whatever season we’ve played with Kenny in the side I bet the stats are better without him than with in whatever division.

[Jersey Canary 149]

4 hours ago, fredherring said:

Pinkun posting geniuses are still saying McLean is rubbish and sorenson is the answer 😂

Omg wtf is wrong with you people? 

Sorenson is a donkey. He's never, ever, going to make it as a first choice midfielder in a championship side. 

McLean has been consistently picked, with training and stats aplenty, by two experienced manager and international coaches. 

Seriously, wtf is wrong with you? 

I’m not saying Sorensen’s the answer I’m just saying Kenny isn’t as good as Sorensen.

[Danke bitte 967]

Ultimately my concern is we don’t address centre mid. McLean is a stalwart but is not the answer moving forward.

Sorenson clearly isn’t fancied, and has only showed flourishes.

We never replaced Skipp, Tettey or even Vrancic.

Equally the porous centre meant we never provided a screen for our CBs. I hope on the highest of hopes this is where we focus our transfer attention