Striving to make sense of the Ukraine war

[Sheva 123]

Expect a big counter attack in the coming months.

Ukrainian spirit is strong, no one will break that and the fight will on, at all levels to all points.
 

 

 

 

 

 

[kirku 1,334]

 

Another utterly deplorable strike on a civilian centre at the busiest time of day. Although Ukraine is slipping away from the news tickers, Russian state terrorism continues unabated

[Mr Angry 1,563]

😢

Ukraine war: Four-year-old Liza killed by Russian attack on Vinnytsia - BBC News

[horsefly 4,301]

3 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

😢

Ukraine war: Four-year-old Liza killed by Russian attack on Vinnytsia - BBC News

Truly appalling! I hope the defenders of Putin watch this.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

I had a little browse on Youtube yesterday and happened to stumble across Jordan Peterson's commentary on Russia and Ukraine. 

I must be honest, I was quite supportive of Peterson in his early days when he was making his stand against, in my opinion, questionable legislation on hate speech in Canada . I was  shocked to see that he seems to have lined himself up with those reinforcing Putin's narrative of a Russia/NATO war instead of the reality of a Russian invasion of a sovereign neighbour to whom Russia had assured its security in international memorandum.

For a so-called classical liberal to deny agency to a sovereign democratic nation to defend itself from an aggressor strips him of any last vestiges of credibility as a supposed free-thinker. 

 

Edited July 16, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,334]

4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

For a so-called classical liberal to deny agency to a sovereign democratic nation to defend itself from an aggressor strips him of any last vestiges of credibility as a supposed free-thinker. 

Have to admit, all of those I've seen that proclaim themselves "free/critical thinkers" have been utter morons

[king canary 7,609]

48 minutes ago, kirku said:

Have to admit, all of those I've seen that proclaim themselves "free/critical thinkers" have been utter morons

Largely my experience too. I have a couple of my facebook who were thick as mince in high school but now claim to be 'free thinkers' able to see the truth the 'MSM' don't want you to see, which means being COVID conspiracy theorists.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Have to admit, all of those I've seen that proclaim themselves "free/critical thinkers" have been utter morons

In Peterson's case, he does come from a legitimate academic background. I still think that at the outset of the Toronto hate speech thing he was making a legitimate point, but these days he just strikes me as a sell-out saying what he thinks he needs to say to make a living as a public agitator. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

10 hours ago, king canary said:

Largely my experience too. I have a couple of my facebook who were thick as mince in high school but now claim to be 'free thinkers' able to see the truth the 'MSM' don't want you to see, which means being COVID conspiracy theorists.

In war, truth is always the first victim 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

17 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

In Peterson's case, he does come from a legitimate academic background. I still think that at the outset of the Toronto hate speech thing he was making a legitimate point, but these days he just strikes me as a sell-out saying what he thinks he needs to say to make a living as a public agitator. 

Peterson tries to be a Renaissance man, and fails spectacularly. I don't doubt he's of considerable repute in clinical psychology, his specialism. He does try to talk about stuff he hasn't got a clue about though.

David Benatar showed him right up. It was obvious Peterson hadn't understood Benatar's line of thinking - and Benatar's not that difficult to follow.

Edited July 17, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[kirku 1,334]

And still there are those in favour of appeasement..

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,189]

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by How I Wrote Elastic Man

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

Grain shipments to resume from Ukraine following a 'co-agreement'. 

I must say, an agreement like this in the middle of a hot war really is an outstanding achievement by the UN. Even Erdogan should get some grudging commendation here. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62268070

[horsefly 4,301]

7 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Grain shipments to resume from Ukraine following a 'co-agreement'. 

I must say, an agreement like this in the middle of a hot war really is an outstanding achievement by the UN. Even Erdogan should get some grudging commendation here. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62268070

Indeed! It might also indicate that the Russian situation is quite grim (let's hope so). Hard to see Putin agreeing to this unless Russia was also pretty desperate to gain concessions from the deal.

[kirku 1,334]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Indeed! It might also indicate that the Russian situation is quite grim (let's hope so). Hard to see Putin agreeing to this unless Russia was also pretty desperate to gain concessions from the deal.

Less than 24 hours later, they've already violated the agreement by launching big strikes on the port in Odessa.

[kirku 1,334]

9 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Grain shipments to resume from Ukraine following a 'co-agreement'. 

I must say, an agreement like this in the middle of a hot war really is an outstanding achievement by the UN. Even Erdogan should get some grudging commendation here. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-62268070

In the west, we've got to stop taking these agreements at face value and thinking they mean anything to the Russians.

[horsefly 4,301]

4 minutes ago, kirku said:

Less than 24 hours later, they've already violated the agreement by launching big strikes on the port in Odessa.

And, of course, none of us are remotely surprised. Putin is scum.

[horsefly 4,301]

5 minutes ago, kirku said:

In the west, we've got to stop taking these agreements at face value and thinking they mean anything to the Russians.

You're right of course! I suppose the breach of such agreements at least serves to confirm the responsibility of Russia for causing this war, and lends further authority to those opposing Putin.  Such actions in themselves make a clear case for further actions to support the Ukraine (sanctions and military support).

[kirku 1,334]

3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You're right of course! I suppose the breach of such agreements at least serves to confirm the responsibility of Russia for causing this war, and lends further authority to those opposing Putin.  Such actions in themselves make a clear case for further actions to support the Ukraine (sanctions and military support).

There needs to be a response to this... but I'm not holding my breath

[kirku 1,334]

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

29 minutes ago, kirku said:

In the west, we've got to stop taking these agreements at face value and thinking they mean anything to the Russians.

It does look like the move was purely intended to provide ammunition to present Russia as reasonable in its home propaganda. 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

11 hours ago, kirku said:

As far as Brexit goes simply substitute ‘ Johnson’ for ‘Russia’.

[Indy 3,301]

7 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

As far as Brexit goes simply substitute ‘ Johnson’ for ‘Russia’.

Indeed and now we can look forward to Truss who is a dangerous alternative which will make Johnson look like a great prime minister!

[kirku 1,334]

Another day, more Russian atrocities.

This time filming themselves castrating a Ukrainian POW with a box cutter.

To counter the horrendous footage, Russia decided to shell a POW camp in occupied territory and try to pin the blame on Ukraine. 

As the war slips from newsreels and becomes background noise to many - we need to ensure we don't forget and don't treat this as normality.

 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,418]

1 hour ago, kirku said:

Another day, more Russian atrocities.

This time filming themselves castrating a Ukrainian POW with a box cutter.

To counter the horrendous footage, Russia decided to shell a POW camp in occupied territory and try to pin the blame on Ukraine. 

As the war slips from newsreels and becomes background noise to many - we need to ensure we don't forget and don't treat this as normality.

 

That's just appalling.

[kirku 1,334]

Russian Embassy in the UK encouraging war crimes.

Another day, another 'Emperor has no clothes' moment for all those cretins who supported this under the idiotic guise of "listening to both sides" or "just asking questions"..

[littleyellowbirdie 2,551]

26 minutes ago, kirku said:

Russian Embassy in the UK encouraging war crimes.

Another day, another 'Emperor has no clothes' moment for all those cretins who supported this under the idiotic guise of "listening to both sides" or "just asking questions"..

I suppose it's nice to see Russia being openly in favour of war crimes now, instead of pretending otherwise; a bit of refreshing honesty. 

Edited July 30, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[kirku 1,334]

36 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose it's nice to see Russia being openly in favour of war crimes now, instead of pretending otherwise; a bit of refreshing honesty. 

"Russia has nothing to do with the food crisis"

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 06/07/2022 at 20:38, littleyellowbirdie said:

https://www.rferl.org/a/un-russia-ukraine-war-crimes/31816271.html

The UN has declared there is more and more evidence of war crimes committed by Russia in Ukraine. New cases come up daily. It's you who needs to wake up with your stupid hero worship of the gangster in the Kremlin. 

The sentence in bold really underlines that you're essentially a Russian imperialist; utterly bizarre. Those countries joined NATO because they wanted to, and had a right to as independent sovereign nations. For them, that decision is clearly paying dividends with Putin at the helm in Russia. 

I'm sure that the UN rappoteur has been informed about these alleged war crimes, like he has reported on the collateral damage video, the corrupt Kenyan Government, the toxic waste dumping by Trafigura in Ivory coast, the US Army's guidelines for the treatment of Guantanamo detainees, the dubious business practices of Swiss bank Julius Baer and more.

NATO stated in 1997 era of detente that it would not expand into eastern Europe, just as the alleged war criminal who lied to Parliament, was elected by a landslide. they lied and refuse to engage with the idea of a comprehensive European security agreement.

The UN has been studiously ignored when it comes to our own accountability for war crimes, so what does that say about those baying for accountability for alleged war crimes in Ukraine? we don't like it up us, but are demanding to do it to others?

Face it, justice is not dispensed by secrecy and violence, the system is broken and the 0.3% voting for another Tory to serve us all with more punishment fear and war, do not speak for the 99.7% of us all.

The woman in charge has achieved nothing at education, nothing as environment minister, or as trade and export representative, she is a security service asset working to keep the establishment happy, she might even support a nuclear confrontation here in Europe and the world, whilst hardly understanding the Geography of eastern Europe.

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

On 06/07/2022 at 13:19, horsefly said:

So you're actually claiming that Russian soldiers are not killing innocent Ukrainians. Are you really that dumb? You claim to be an ex-soldier yet you are unable to recognise the existence of Russian soldiers on the ground happily waving their flags and basking in Putin's praise for their disgusting war efforts. You are a fu*cking idiot, and I can't be bothered after this to entertain your pro-Putin bollox any more. 

keep your ad hominem coming, it says more about yourself than anybody else.

'those who sleep in a democracy will wake up in a dictatorship' ( Otto Gritschneder}