Canary Jedi 579 Posted October 23, 2021 What is the measure of our success? A) Staying up and ultimately establishing ourselves in the Premier League? B) Coaching talent in order to make considerable profit plus occasional trips to the Premier League? If (A) then Farke has to go. if (B) then Farke and Webber are doing a fine job. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,395 Posted October 23, 2021 Just now, Canary Jedi said: What is the measure of our success? A) Staying up and ultimately establishing ourselves in the Premier League? B) Coaching talent in order to make considerable profit plus occasional trips to the Premier League? If (A) then Farke has to go. if (B) then Farke and Webber are doing a fine job. A is impossible without a benefactor with deep pockets, that much should be obvious by now. The plan is top 26 so relegations are a given. On our money this is probably the best we can ever hope for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Jedi 579 Posted October 23, 2021 Then you’ve answered the question and as fans we should not worry if we crash out of the premier league as long as we sell on the best players and then be competitive in the Championship. Not saying I agree with this but is that how it is? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff the Canary 63 Posted October 23, 2021 Still on target to be a top 26 team! That’s the limit of the current owners ambition! Nothing changes until the club owners change. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,395 Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Canary Jedi said: Then you’ve answered the question and as fans we should not worry if we crash out of the premier league as long as we sell on the best players and then be competitive in the Championship. Not saying I agree with this but is that how it is? Correct, I am not worried, acceptance of reality always calms the nerves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ricardo 7,395 Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Cliff the Canary said: Still on target to be a top 26 team! That’s the limit of the current owners ambition! Nothing changes until the club owners change. Any billionaires with cars parked at a jaunty angle outside CR today? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timeout 1 Posted October 23, 2021 The Smiths must go ,sell to someone with ambition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Virtual reality 707 Posted October 23, 2021 Irrespective of this, there is a way to approach a football match and a way in which it’s acceptable to lose. What we are seeing is utterly unacceptable by any standards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yellowrider120 762 Posted October 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, Canary Jedi said: What is the measure of our success? A) Staying up and ultimately establishing ourselves in the Premier League? B) Coaching talent in order to make considerable profit plus occasional trips to the Premier League? If (A) then Farke has to go. if (B) then Farke and Webber are doing a fine job. (B) is the rationale behind the much hyped 'self funding model'. Whilst you have a steady conveyor belt of talent to sell and create profit then the model can (arguably) be justified. This season is rapidly turning into such a shambles that player sales in January and or next summer are very unlikely to do so this time round. Cantwell - at the moment we would be lucky to get anywhere near £10M for him due to the current issues. £30M+ ? No chance. Air Rons - again, nowhere near £30M AO will be the only one who could generate a real fee such is his potential and (importantly) he is (so far) untainted by this farce. Rashica / Sergent / Tzolis - to even 'get our money back' we would need to con buyers into giving us £30M!! Nil chance of that I'm afraid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chelm Canary 404 Posted October 23, 2021 11 minutes ago, ricardo said: A is impossible without a benefactor with deep pockets, that much should be obvious by now. The plan is top 26 so relegations are a given. On our money this is probably the best we can ever hope for. What's obvious is what happens on the pitch. Future benefactors and top 26 don't matter when you're pitch side watching your team lose 7-0. I don't disagree with you for a minute, but you're putting far too much faith in the fan base if you expect it to continue. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cliff the Canary 63 Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, ricardo said: Any billionaires with cars parked at a jaunty angle outside CR today? Even if there was the Smiths wouldn’t talk with them! Their billions would irk them 🤣🤣 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted October 23, 2021 I just want to see my team win now and again, play decent football and not worry that they are out of their depth. That is probably the Championship right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BadDay 0 Posted October 23, 2021 1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said: I just want to see my team win now and again, play decent football and not worry that they are out of their depth. That is probably the Championship right now. Indeed. This is the case the for about 90%+ of English football clubs sadly, such is the way the English game has gone. Today we can look at Brentford as the team getting it right. Two years ago that was Sheffield United, but it certainly wasn't last year. Perhaps Brentfords stars will continue to allign and they could get a 9th place finish. Then it will be back to a relegation fight next season. With Newcastle very much joining the elite the gap between those at the top and everyone else becomes greater every year. I honestly think our best hope is that the super league does actually happen or we see some drastic salary cap rules come in. The former is more likely I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Pants 4,234 Posted October 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Virtual reality said: Irrespective of this, there is a way to approach a football match and a way in which it’s acceptable to lose. What we are seeing is utterly unacceptable by any standards Agreed. It's totally unprofessional on and off the pitch. We've had some good times but are now getting complacent, almost arrogant, that we can get relegated and come straight back up again. I think if we do go down there will be quite a clamour from the players to get out. No telling what could happen next season. Just want us to show a bit of pride and at least go down fighting, rather than the laughing stock we are at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WD40 720 Posted October 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said: Just want us to show a bit of pride and at least go down fighting, rather than the laughing stock we are at the moment. Would be nice wouldn’t it. We’re treated with utter contempt by the media and all other fans, and rightly so. And unfortunately Farke has to be the casualty here as we aren’t showing any hope or ambition by keeping him in role. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigGrantsTash 70 Posted October 23, 2021 I think A has to happen to some extent in order for B to be sustainable Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Jedi 579 Posted October 23, 2021 Maybe it’s about being slight better each time? I mean last time we went up with no cash so investment was hard. This time £50M was spent. Next time could be £100M and give us a slightly better chance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Van wink 2,994 Posted October 23, 2021 Our guys need to regularly raise their game to even be competitive in this League, for that to happen there needs to be a togetherness, spirit and belief which seems to be absent. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yellowrider120 762 Posted October 23, 2021 The simple notion put forward by many is....'keep hold of Farke, he knows how to get promotion and we'll bounce straight back'. This is (of course) straight out of the latest Delia Smith cook book for how to compete in that dastardly world of the PL. Couple that with sell off your best players to balance the books thus complying with the 'self funding' model. Thing is, though, everything goes in cycles and to blindly assume we will automatically get promoted AGAIN next season could well turn out to be wishful thinking. Relegation was always likely but for the self funding model to keep us solvent it was necessary to compete right until the end, get to about 35 points and just be edged out on the last day of the season. Then few would have any real complaints and a number of players (if they wanted out) could probably be sold for significant fees. The way this campaign is rapidly collapsing is set to be disastrous. We could easily fail to get to ten points and fail to score even 20 goals (both these seemingly easily achievable targets now look a lifetime away!). IF that happens then the fees we might generate on sales will be a fraction of that budgeted for. Just one example - if Sargent ends up with say a couple of goals, who the hell is going to pay NINE MILLION £'s for him? No-one of course and hence we make a loss. Ditto Tzolis and ditto Rashica. Top that with Kabak and Normann returning to sender and suddenly the picture looks far from rosy. £35M for Cantwell now looks a misty eyed dream in addition. In that quite realistic scenario, our Championship prospects look much more unstable with mid table the likely outcome. We have had 13 seasons now of 6 in the PL(with 4 relegations if you assume this season is lost), 6 in the Championship (with 4 promotions) and 1 in Division one (Champions). The constant 'yo, yoing' is likely to stutter to a stop. Nothing last for ever and next season could be extremely difficult if pride, goals and points can't very soon be rescued from this complete shambles. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings of a Sparrow 1,415 Posted October 23, 2021 34 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said: The simple notion put forward by many is....'keep hold of Farke, he knows how to get promotion and we'll bounce straight back'. This is (of course) straight out of the latest Delia Smith cook book for how to compete in that dastardly world of the PL. Couple that with sell off your best players to balance the books thus complying with the 'self funding' model. Thing is, though, everything goes in cycles and to blindly assume we will automatically get promoted AGAIN next season could well turn out to be wishful thinking. Relegation was always likely but for the self funding model to keep us solvent it was necessary to compete right until the end, get to about 35 points and just be edged out on the last day of the season. Then few would have any real complaints and a number of players (if they wanted out) could probably be sold for significant fees. The way this campaign is rapidly collapsing is set to be disastrous. We could easily fail to get to ten points and fail to score even 20 goals (both these seemingly easily achievable targets now look a lifetime away!). IF that happens then the fees we might generate on sales will be a fraction of that budgeted for. Just one example - if Sargent ends up with say a couple of goals, who the hell is going to pay NINE MILLION £'s for him? No-one of course and hence we make a loss. Ditto Tzolis and ditto Rashica. Top that with Kabak and Normann returning to sender and suddenly the picture looks far from rosy. £35M for Cantwell now looks a misty eyed dream in addition. In that quite realistic scenario, our Championship prospects look much more unstable with mid table the likely outcome. We have had 13 seasons now of 6 in the PL(with 4 relegations if you assume this season is lost), 6 in the Championship (with 4 promotions) and 1 in Division one (Champions). The constant 'yo, yoing' is likely to stutter to a stop. Nothing last for ever and next season could be extremely difficult if pride, goals and points can't very soon be rescued from this complete shambles. I too am very worried that we wouldn't make an immediate return to the EPL and may float about mid- table Championship for a few years. And I am an eternal optimist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,534 Posted October 23, 2021 Are there really people who assume if we got relegated we'd come straight.back up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wings of a Sparrow 1,415 Posted October 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said: Are there really people who assume if we got relegated we'd come straight.back up? Its been mentioned for sure. Good squad for the Championship is one that gets regularly regurgitated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,534 Posted October 23, 2021 6 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said: Its been mentioned for sure. Good squad for the Championship is one that gets regularly regurgitated. We did it last time but with a core of players who had already done it. I was still surprised they turned round the losing mentality so quickly. It would be very different if we go down this time. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TeemuVanBasten 3,327 Posted October 23, 2021 5 hours ago, ricardo said: A is impossible without a benefactor with deep pockets, that much should be obvious by now. Look at the net spend of Watford, Burnley , Southampton and Crystal Palace. Rich owners doesn't always mean heavily subsidised footballing operation or a constantly open cheque book. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NFN FC 1,123 Posted October 23, 2021 I would just like them to play some f*ckin football. Not this poor man's Burnley nonsense Share this post Link to post Share on other sites