Gay footballers...

[Michael Starr 519]

A professional NFL player just came out. The first one to do so. I really hope we start seeing this in football. It's so sad that people have to hide a major part of their life just to avoid hate from the stands, even from our own!

[cambridgeshire canary 6,718]

Given the state of Football social media I sadly doubt it will happen anytime soon. Would be nice of course, but given Fashanu too it's rather understandable some may not wish to do so

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Why do you want to know about someone else’s sexual life? Am I the only person who has no problem whatsoever with gay people but is simultaneously sick and tired of the entire pushing of lgbt propaganda? It’s SO boring now. 
 

being gay isn’t deserving of persecution but nor is it worthy of praise. Let’s just let people be people and focus on football. If they perform on the pitch who gives a ….

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

LGBT propaganda? The only ones pushing that are the Church.

Besides, the pushing of the nuclear family is far more pervasive than ANYTHING done by the LGBT communities.

[horsefly 4,300]

1 minute ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Why do you want to know about someone else’s sexual life? Am I the only person who has no problem whatsoever with gay people but is simultaneously sick and tired of the entire pushing of lgbt propaganda? It’s SO boring now. 
 

being gay isn’t deserving of persecution but nor is it worthy of praise. Let’s just let people be people and focus on football. If they perform on the pitch who gives a ….

You've missed the point entirely. No one is suggesting that gay footballers should be praised for being gay, or would want to be praised for being gay. It's entirely about gay footballers being treated equally with heterosexual footballers, nothing more nothing less. Just as black footballers expect to be treated equally with their white colleagues. I'm sorry that such an equality agenda bores you, sorry, that is, that you lack the imagination to see why this is such an important issue (as the sad fate of Justin Fashanu attests).

[Haus 259]

5 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Why do you want to know about someone else’s sexual life? Am I the only person who has no problem whatsoever with gay people but is simultaneously sick and tired of the entire pushing of lgbt propaganda? It’s SO boring now. 
 

being gay isn’t deserving of persecution but nor is it worthy of praise. Let’s just let people be people and focus on football. If they perform on the pitch who gives a ….

Must be pretty bad having to live a fake life though, and never being able to be yourself in public.  

Its not about praise, its about creating an environment where people don't feel uncomfortable just being themselves. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,718]

9 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Why do you want to know about someone else’s sexual life? Am I the only person who has no problem whatsoever with gay people but is simultaneously sick and tired of the entire pushing of lgbt propaganda? It’s SO boring now. 
 

being gay isn’t deserving of persecution but nor is it worthy of praise. Let’s just let people be people and focus on football. If they perform on the pitch who gives a ….

'lgbt propaganda'

 

Ah yes, the ""propoganda"" that LGBT people exist. horrifying stuff. Why don't we just, I don't know, go full Russia and throw people into jail for coming out as gay? Least then you would not have to hear about it right?

 

🙃

Edited July 22, 2021 by cambridgeshire canary

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

LGBT propaganda? The only ones pushing that are the Church.

Besides, the pushing of the nuclear family is far more pervasive than ANYTHING done by the LGBT communities.

Oh please - pride month, rainbow laces, daily lgbt news items on bbc, etc etc - name me an equivalent for promoting nuclear family. I’ll wait…

I agree it must be hard living a secret life. I don’t think fans virtual signalling on this board will particularly help that. Nor do I think people’s private lives are terribly interesting, Thomas hitlzlesburfer came out - nobody cared 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

'lgbt propaganda'

 

Ah yes, the ""propoganda"" that LGBT people exist. horrifying stuff. Why don't we just, I don't know, go full Russia and throw people into jail for coming out as gay? Least then you would not have to hear about it right?

 

🙃

Talk about an ignorant inability to debate.

1. Being tired of lgbt propaganda does not equate to being tired of lgbt people. 

Hence I could introduce you to gay friends who detest the smug virtue signalling propaganda 

2. You not I suggested harming lgbt people. What a horrid thought. Are you hiding deep hatred? Or were you just trying to smear me and hate label in a desire to silence me?

 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Just now, Dean Coneys boots said:

Oh please - pride month, rainbow laces, daily lgbt news items on bbc, etc etc - name me an equivalent for promoting nuclear family. I’ll wait…

I agree it must be hard living a secret life. I don’t think fans virtual signalling on this board will particularly help that. Nor do I think people’s private lives are terribly interesting, Thomas hitlzlesburfer came out - nobody cared 

How about - the whole culture/legislation/tax system, etc? 

News items on BBC? Ask yourself how many times people are referred to as fathers/mothers, etc across all media. The tax system favours the nuclear family, as OECD figures have made clear beyond all doubt for years (especially compared to the single and childfree). The nuclear family doesn't need Pride month. It has all the advantages internalised within this culture to start with, and therefore enjoys an unjustified, elevated position as a result.

If America is any guide, there are over 1,000 laws that benefit married people to the detriment of single people. Not really been much research into the lot of singles in the UK, but I'd be surprised if it's dissimilar.

The reason you don't see it is simple: you're in the middle of it so have internalised it.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Don’t be so patronising. I see full well thank you.  So let’s get real laws that benefit marriage are manifestly for the good of society and especially children and families. They are not discriminatory- especially since same sex marriage is now a thing. 
 

as for nuclear family being promoted - bs- it has been attacked for years in media and culture hence easy and widespread divorce, collapse of the family, etc etc 

[SwindonCanary 455]

LGBT or any other persuasion as long as they play well, I would not care  

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Don’t be so patronising. I see full well thank you.  So let’s get real laws that benefit marriage are manifestly for the good of society and especially children and families. They are not discriminatory- especially since same sex marriage is now a thing. 
 

as for nuclear family being promoted - bs- it has been attacked for years in media and culture hence easy and widespread divorce, collapse of the family, etc etc 

They are discriminatory. They discriminate against single people for starters (which is why in the early days of gay rights, they wanted to abolish the whole institution. Would have been better for the singles, who are a rapidly increasing proportion of the population). And the nuclear family is VERY much promoted. Even the likes of Sex and the City had everyone settle down eventually.

OECD figures demonstrate that clearly. Show me a country where the single/childfree have an identical tax wedge on the same income. I'll wait. (You'll find it's usually 3-6% higher).

You'll also find that most of the studies that say marriage is beneficial suffer from massive flaws as well. If the correlation/causation fallacy doesn't wreck them, then the Texas sharpshooter invariably does. And even if those don't, they don't take into account how marriage is strongly abetted by legal systems.

This academic has spent years showing how such studies are weaponised and flawed. Should be plenty of good, solid, factual reading for anyone interested. Her book Singled Out is the place to start if you really fancy looking at it.

What’s Wrong with Studies and Claims about the Supposed Benefits of Marriage? - Bella DePaulo

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Single people tend not to raise families/ they have much lower costs and don’t raise future tax payers. Nuclear families nurture them - both gay and straight. Get a grip. The pink pound is a real thing - and again I don’t see families promoted much these days. It’s all down with the patriarchy and me, me me and my wounded self and rights

[horsefly 4,300]

15 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Talk about an ignorant inability to debate.

1. Being tired of lgbt propaganda does not equate to being tired of lgbt people. 

Hence I could introduce you to gay friends who detest the smug virtue signalling propaganda 

2. You not I suggested harming lgbt people. What a horrid thought. Are you hiding deep hatred? Or were you just trying to smear me and hate label in a desire to silence me?

 

Perhaps you should watch the video Carl Nassib posted before you pejoratively dismiss it as "lgbt propoganda"

Maybe you might realise your "boredom" is barely disguised intollerance

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

Does the 'look what happened to Justin Fashanu' theory really apply nowadays? That was 30 years ago and the mentality has moved on. Also, the colour of Fashanu's skin probably exacerbated the abuse he received as well.

If a footballer came out tomorrow, there would no doubt be a small minority of homophobes who would send abusive messages on social media, similar to what certain black players receive now. But the vast, vast majority of fans would be fine with it, and some experts have claimed that the first active gay player may actually increase their marketability.

Ultimately, the biggest barrier may be the racist abuse being received by black players at the moment. A gay player may look at that and think: 'Do I really want to put myself through that?'

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

4 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Single people tend not to raise families/ they have much lower costs and don’t raise future tax payers. Nuclear families nurture them - both gay and straight. Get a grip. The pink pound is a real thing - and again I don’t see families promoted much these days. It’s all down with the patriarchy and me, me me and my wounded self and rights

None of that justifies beneficial treatment. And as for singles having lower costs, that might just apply if they've living with parents. Otherwise, you'll find costs are split between couples, whereas singles only have the one income by definition.

Quebec has the right idea. They have a tax break for singles living alone. That would be a useful way of counterbalancing a few of the issues I've described.

You're not seeing families being promoted because they are being promoted all the time. Looks like you need to get a grip.

Edited July 22, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[Uncle Fred 526]

I give this thread another hour before it disappears 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,718]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I give this thread another hour before it disappears 

Can you pull a rabbit out of a hat for me too?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

29 minutes ago, Haus said:

Must be pretty bad having to live a fake life though, and never being able to be yourself in public.  

Wouldn't necessarily have to be any different public.

I mean straight people don't all hold hands and snog in public do they, only teenagers. Other than that, how would you know if another man with a footballer was a mate or partner? 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Single people tend not to raise families/ they have much lower costs and don’t raise future tax payers. 

And the increased demand for single-occupancy properties has been a contributor to the housing crisis as well, and was the inspiratio for the bedroom tax - trying to get single people out of 2/3 bedroom homes and into 1 bedroom homes. 

[king canary 7,606]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

And the increased demand for single-occupancy properties has been a contributor to the housing crisis as well, and was the inspiratio for the bedroom tax - trying to get single people out of 2/3 bedroom homes and into 1 bedroom homes. 

Only poor people though.

[AJ 1,221]

I'd like to think within our squad it wouldn't be an issue, the public don't need to know so not sure that the whole "coming out" thing is necessary. As long as our team accepts each other for what they are then it's all good in my eyes, and over the more recent years the club has come out in support of LGBT so would like to think the thoughts are the same in the dressing room

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

35 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Why do you want to know about someone else’s sexual life? Am I the only person who has no problem whatsoever with gay people but is simultaneously sick and tired of the entire pushing of lgbt propaganda? It’s SO boring now. 

being gay isn’t deserving of persecution but nor is it worthy of praise. Let’s just let people be people and focus on football. If they perform on the pitch who gives a ….

Propaganda is "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote a political cause or point of view"

Do enlighten us as to exactly what cause  or point of view the LGBTQ community are trying to persuade you about? 

Your intolerance is absolutely gushing out of your posts. I wouldn't go so far as to suggest you are homophobic - but you are pretty damn close. If you don't like it, ignore it. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

And the increased demand for single-occupancy properties has been a contributor to the housing crisis as well, and was the inspiratio for the bedroom tax - trying to get single people out of 2/3 bedroom homes and into 1 bedroom homes. 

An increased population and thoroughly inadequate construction of social housing (which has been way below target for many years, we're seeing the cumulative effects now) is the main reason for the housing crisis.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

5 minutes ago, king canary said:

Only poor people though.

Same applies to private rented, or owner-occupied.

Fewer marriages & families means more family homes occupied by single people. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

God forbid that singles live with a bit of space, heh? 🙂

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

An increased population and thoroughly inadequate construction of social housing (which has been way below target for many years, we're seeing the cumulative effects now) is the main reason for the housing crisis.

There are numerous factors contributing to high housing costs, but yes the sell off of social housing and failure to replace lost stock is one of the significant ones.

It does bug me a little though when I see people move from Norfolk to London for the lifestyle, rather than because its the only place they can realistically persue their chosen career, only to then moan about high rents and not being able to buy a property. From the perspective of people who were born and raised in London, they are a part of the problem.

There is a history teacher on my social media who fits this description. No wife, no kids. You can be a history teacher anywhere in the country. Yes, London also needs teachers in its schools (a reason for London to fix the problem) but I can't see compelling reason why that person has to live in London. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

There are numerous factors contributing to high housing costs, but yes the sell off of social housing and failure to replace lost stock is one of the significant ones.

It does bug me a little though when I see people move from Norfolk to London for the lifestyle, rather than because its the only place they can realistically persue their chosen career, only to then moan about high rents and not being able to buy a property. From the perspective of people who were born and raised in London, real cockneys, they are a part of the problem.

There is a history teacher on my social media who fits this description. No wife, no kids. You can be a history teacher anywhere in the country. Yes, London also needs teachers in its schools (a reason for London to fix the problem) but I can't see compelling reason why that person has to live in London. 

Not just London to be fair. Centre of Manchester is also pretty damned heated regarding property prices and slowly, but surely, the spillover is coming and increasing our prices here in Bolton (needed to, we were one of the few parts of the country that didn't have an increase - and yeah, I appreciate I've given my status away as a homeowner there!). Not sure teaching is a profession getting a shortage of staff so in theory he could pick and choose where he fancies it.

I think you made a good argument for greater focus on the North to be honest. I certainly didn't enjoy life much when working near London (worked in Gerrards Cross, lived in High Wycombe) and came back home to Bolton again within a year.

[lake district canary 4,531]

I think it is more an individual thing. It's a case of some gay people will feel trapped feeling they can't come out, others will feel they are fine not coming out. I think most people know gay people who have never "come out" and have partners privately it will be the same in the football world. Do the majority of gay footballers feel trapped? Who knows, I hope not and I am fairly certain that footballers know within clubs if certain people there are gay, or at least suspect it - we all know people who we think might be gay......but it really doesn't matter in this day and age and nothing is ever said about it publicy because as in most walks of life, it isn't really a thing that should bother anyone - and footballers are just like the rest of us.

If a gay footballer does feel trapped, then that is a shame, but then anyone can feel trapped, in loneliness even when with others, or isolated socially because they don't feel they fit in - the long and short of it is that you don't have to be gay to feel trapped. Yes, it might be good for some individuals to "come out" but I suspect that a lot of gay people just get on with their lives without any fuss and do so without feeling they need to "come out".

There are plenty of cases in other sports where gay people have partners openly and that is great and in football it will happen sooner or later - the sooner the better - but it should not really be such a big deal.

Edited July 22, 2021 by lake district canary