New Tory Leader

[Nuff Said 5,176]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

I disagree, you can’t simply have people pitching tents where they please. In a society you have to balance the needs of everybody in it, even if those needs are sometimes conflicting.

Does a homeless person wanting to pitch a tent on public property overrule the general public wanting to use that public property for other means? Is it fair to allow a shanty town to be set up next to a children’s play park for instance, or for people to pitch tents which block footpaths and entrances to businesses potentially depriving shop owners of their livelihood? 

You’re missing the point. Do you really believe that most of the people living in tents, wherever they are, are doing so voluntarily - in Braverman’s words making a lifestyle choice? If not, then the thing that matters is to get them out of tents and find somewhere for them to live. Then the problem about where the tents are goes away.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

[Fen Canary 866]

1 hour ago, TheDarkKnight said:

You're missing the point entirely.

It's utterly disgusting and abhorrent that the PM has a personal fortune of £700m (include his family and it's £1billion+) and there are people sleeping rough.

I also find it funny that the country has a bottomless pit for war, but their coffers are empty when it comes to helping these poor people to pursue a better life.

You’ve changed the discussion. You implied that the homeless should be free to pitch a tent wherever they please, a point I disagree on as it affects the rest of society.

Braverman also referred to those who chose to sleep on the street even if a bed at a shelter was available, which unfortunately isn’t uncommon. I agree more needs to be done and more capacity created to help people, but you also can’t let them do as they please to the detriment of everybody else 

[Fen Canary 866]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

You’re missing the point. Do you really believe that most of the people living in tents, wherever they are, are doing so voluntarily - in Braverman’s words making a lifestyle choice? If not, then the thing that matters is to get them out of tents and find somewhere for them to live. Then the problem about where the tents are goes away.

Some people do choose it though, as to take a bed in the shelters usually requires them to be sober or not taking drugs. 

[Herman 9,820]

6 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Some people do choose it though, as to take a bed in the shelters usually requires them to be sober or not taking drugs. 

There is an opposite to this as well. Some shelters are full of drugs so it is safer for some on the streets, sadly.

Anyway, why aren't people getting more angry with the government's housing policy? The privatisation of it has been an unmitigated disaster.

[Fen Canary 866]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

There is an opposite to this as well. Some shelters are full of drugs so it is safer for some on the streets, sadly.

Anyway, why aren't people getting more angry with the government's housing policy? The privatisation of it has been an unmitigated disaster.

The privatisation of most things has been an unmitigated disaster 

[Herman 9,820]

5 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

The privatisation of most things has been an unmitigated disaster 

Amen to that.👍

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Some people do choose it though, as to take a bed in the shelters usually requires them to be sober or not taking drugs. 

That may be true but that isn't what the vicious cow meant, especially with her reference to incomers.

[king canary 7,665]

I do love Sunak's willingness to gift the opposition ammunition to show just how out of touch he is.

Quote

Rishi Sunak has said he wants people to be willing to give up “the security of a regular paycheck ... and be comfortable with failure”.

Just such an easy thing for someone of his background to say.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

Just in case anyone still thinks the Tories aren’t a bunch of corrupt chancers looking out for themselves and their mates:

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

On 04/11/2023 at 21:57, TheDarkKnight said:

Only a masochist would choose to sleep outside rather than in front of a roaring fire.

You sure about that? What about a Scot Nat who was offered Scottish independence in exchange for sleeping rough for the rest of their lives?

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

Comment in Guardian on King's Speech. Makes one think....

Man who arrived in golden coach, warmly draped in ermine furs, diamonds and other jewels processes to sit on golden throne for sole purpose of giving hope to homeless people living in tents.

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

15 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Comment in Guardian on King's Speech. Makes one think....

Man who arrived in golden coach, warmly draped in ermine furs, diamonds and other jewels processes to sit on golden throne for sole purpose of giving hope to homeless people living in tents.

Comments in the Guardian are made by people who've forgotten how to think.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Comment in Guardian on King's Speech. Makes one think....

Man who arrived in golden coach, warmly draped in ermine furs, diamonds and other jewels processes to sit on golden throne for sole purpose of giving hope to homeless people living in tents.

You see, this is the problem with the country, everything has to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator just so we can accommodate everybody's victimhood. we can never look up to something good and aspirational, we have to always pull it down to the gutter. We have to frame the narrative in terms of resentment and jealousy instead of positivity and growth. Always looking back in anger never striving towards a better future.

Hardly surprising so many are suffering from mental health issues, living in isolation, dealing with depression when you're constantly being told life is sh!t and then you die. Why not stop worrying what others have or don't have and instead start thinking about how one can be a little better tomorrow that one is today? And when you've re-oriented yourself to continuous improvement you'll find those around you will start to benefit. If you think the world is broken the answer is to fix oneself.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

38 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

You see, this is the problem with the country, everything has to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator just so we can accommodate everybody's victimhood. we can never look up to something good and aspirational, we have to always pull it down to the gutter. We have to frame the narrative in terms of resentment and jealousy instead of positivity and growth. Always looking back in anger never striving towards a better future.

Hardly surprising so many are suffering from mental health issues, living in isolation, dealing with depression when you're constantly being told life is sh!t and then you die. Why not stop worrying what others have or don't have and instead start thinking about how one can be a little better tomorrow that one is today? And when you've re-oriented yourself to continuous improvement you'll find those around you will start to benefit. If you think the world is broken the answer is to fix oneself.

Tl;dr - if you think the world is broken, it’s a lifestyle choice.

Utter ****er.

[Herman 9,820]

3 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

Tl;dr - if you think the world is broken, it’s a lifestyle choice.

Utter ****er.

Like twitter, I've got to the stage where I can't be bothered to engage with these arseholes anymore. There's too many of them spouting bilge and spreading hate, falling for every piece of nonsense the Daily Mail tells them. The worst of Britain.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

30 minutes ago, Herman said:

Like twitter, I've got to the stage where I can't be bothered to engage with these arseholes anymore. There's too many of them spouting bilge and spreading hate, falling for every piece of nonsense the Daily Mail tells them. The worst of Britain.

It’s self-validating confirmation bias. Whether it’s the Tories or RTB, these people spouting vile lies about lifestyle choices and self-reliance want to believe they are in some way special or better than others and they refuse to acknowledge that you get out what you put in to people.

If you live in a world where resources, whether education, health, housing or social security, are constantly salami-sliced and therefore less and less effective, things will break. There is a minimum standard for public services in a modern society and we were barely there when the Tories got back in. Austerity broke this country, that’s why there are people living on the street and the economy is screwed.

[Naturalcynic 661]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

It’s self-validating confirmation bias. Whether it’s the Tories or RTB, these people spouting vile lies about lifestyle choices and self-reliance want to believe they are in some way special or better than others and they refuse to acknowledge that you get out what you put in to people.

If you live in a world where resources, whether education, health, housing or social security, are constantly salami-sliced and therefore less and less effective, things will break. There is a minimum standard for public services in a modern society and we were barely there when the Tories got back in. Austerity broke this country, that’s why there are people living on the street and the economy is screwed.

The country was virtually bankrupt before the 2008 global financial crisis and austerity was a rational economic plan to recover from that.  However, since then it’s been compounded by Brexit, the pandemic and Ukraine.  In the face of that little lot, any country is going to struggle, regardless of the political colour of the government of the day.

[Nuff Said 5,176]

32 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

The country was virtually bankrupt before the 2008 global financial crisis and austerity was a rational economic plan to recover from that.  However, since then it’s been compounded by Brexit, the pandemic and Ukraine.  In the face of that little lot, any country is going to struggle, regardless of the political colour of the government of the day.

I don’t understand what you mean by virtually bankrupt, could you clarify? National economies are not businesses or households.

[Herman 9,820]

1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

It’s self-validating confirmation bias. Whether it’s the Tories or RTB, these people spouting vile lies about lifestyle choices and self-reliance want to believe they are in some way special or better than others and they refuse to acknowledge that you get out what you put in to people.

If you live in a world where resources, whether education, health, housing or social security, are constantly salami-sliced and therefore less and less effective, things will break. There is a minimum standard for public services in a modern society and we were barely there when the Tories got back in. Austerity broke this country, that’s why there are people living on the street and the economy is screwed.

👏👏👏

There's a sad irony here of those mostly responsible for the mess this country is in trying hard to push the responsibility back on to others. 

Unfortunately it works time after time as the public will take the easy option and blame the homeless, the unemployed, the immigrants or the Muslims. 

[Nuff Said 5,176]

1 minute ago, Herman said:

👏👏👏

There's a sad irony here of those mostly responsible for the mess this country is in trying hard to push the responsibility back on to others. 

Unfortunately it works time after time as the public will take the easy option and blame the homeless, the unemployed, the immigrants or the Muslims. 

Yep, whataboutery at its finest. Straight out of the populist playbook. “Never mind that the world is on fire and we’re making it worse, look at those people making an effort to ask for peace on Remembrance Day”.

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

10 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Comments in the Guardian are made by people who've forgotten how to think.

 

7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

You see, this is the problem with the country, everything has to be dragged down to the lowest common denominator just so we can accommodate everybody's victimhood. we can never look up to something good and aspirational, we have to always pull it down to the gutter. We have to frame the narrative in terms of resentment and jealousy instead of positivity and growth. Always looking back in anger never striving towards a better future.

Hardly surprising so many are suffering from mental health issues, living in isolation, dealing with depression when you're constantly being told life is sh!t and then you die. Why not stop worrying what others have or don't have and instead start thinking about how one can be a little better tomorrow that one is today? And when you've re-oriented yourself to continuous improvement you'll find those around you will start to benefit. If you think the world is broken the answer is to fix oneself.

Totally blinked myopic nonsense.

The comment for those that can think independently is simply the ironic juxtaposition of the King in all his splendour laying out the government plans amongst others for the destitute. It was a clever well written comment designed to challenge with humour the absurdity of the spectacle

It has nothing do with your base rabid culture war issues.

"Man who arrived in golden coach, warmly draped in ermine furs, diamonds and other jewels processes to sit on golden throne for sole purpose of giving hope to homeless people living in tents."

Edited November 8, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[TheGunnShow 5,993]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

It’s self-validating confirmation bias. Whether it’s the Tories or RTB, these people spouting vile lies about lifestyle choices and self-reliance want to believe they are in some way special or better than others and they refuse to acknowledge that you get out what you put in to people.

If you live in a world where resources, whether education, health, housing or social security, are constantly salami-sliced and therefore less and less effective, things will break. There is a minimum standard for public services in a modern society and we were barely there when the Tories got back in. Austerity broke this country, that’s why there are people living on the street and the economy is screwed.

Often, those people think a meritocracy is an aspirational model for society and missed the memo. At a micro level, the notion of meritocracy is fine. Applied to society at large on a macro level, it's a dystopia.

They need to brush up on the original use of the word from Sir Michael Young.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

The country was virtually bankrupt before the 2008 global financial crisis and austerity was a rational economic plan to recover from that.  However, since then it’s been compounded by Brexit, the pandemic and Ukraine.  In the face of that little lot, any country is going to struggle, regardless of the political colour of the government of the day.

Not all of the country suffers though does it. Some have made money out of our debt. That is morally bankrupt.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

"Man who arrived in golden coach, warmly draped in ermine furs, diamonds and other jewels processes to sit on golden throne for sole purpose of giving hope to homeless people living in tents."

And that same man is vehemently opposed to what he has read out

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

Just now, TheDarkKnight said:

I'd take it.

Hell, I'd rather a civil war than status quo.

I had a feeling you would. 🙂

]

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

12 hours ago, Herman said:

Like twitter, I've got to the stage where I can't be bothered to engage with these arseholes anymore. There's too many of them spouting bilge and spreading hate, falling for every piece of nonsense the Daily Mail tells them. The worst of Britain.

You were fine with Twitter when it was a Lefty echo chamber like this site mostly is. Poor form ol'boy. The handful of non-lefties on here don't shy away from discourse despite the abuse they reguarly receive. I personally get heaps of abuse for my views, but it doesn't deter me. In fact it renders me stronger. The saying goes 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.

Grow a spine, keep airing your views, however wrong they maybe, and stop being such a p**sy.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

31 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

You were fine with Twitter when it was a Lefty echo chamber like this site mostly is. Poor form ol'boy. The handful of non-lefties on here don't shy away from discourse despite the abuse they reguarly receive. I personally get heaps of abuse for my views, but it doesn't deter me. In fact it renders me stronger. The saying goes 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.

Grow a spine, keep airing your views, however wrong they maybe, and stop being such a p**sy.

Where did you find your spine again after losing it for months? Or was it the guts you lost?

[sonyc 5,541]

8 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

You were fine with Twitter when it was a Lefty echo chamber like this site mostly is. Poor form ol'boy. The handful of non-lefties on here don't shy away from discourse despite the abuse they reguarly receive. I personally get heaps of abuse for my views, but it doesn't deter me. In fact it renders me stronger. The saying goes 'Keep your friends close and your enemies closer'.

Grow a spine, keep airing your views, however wrong they maybe, and stop being such a p**sy.

Well, I've given up. There is literally no point. I agree with @Herman ...nothing to do with a spine or being a ****. Folk will keep on voting Tory (or Labour), some will prefer Trump to any democrat, some will disbelieve there is climate change. And many will make insults. It hasn't changed in years.

Some folk also enjoy the sport of getting at the liberal minded or "lefties". 

Using a meteorological analogy, some folk are like winds that just blow in the same direction, over the same landscape.

Why counter a view? There's no change that can be made. Our influence on another seems minimal. And it feels absurd to be like Sisyphus and battle to push that stone up the hill. All you can do is enjoy the absurdity of it all. For me, I've decided to observe and be silent on a lot of things. That's how I am in real life. Posting my view (which is rarely fixed but far more uncertain) isn't my forte. You'll be well aware of that. And I've discovered in the last ten years I'm far more irrelevant now. It doesn't matter either. You can accept yourself. 

The world is divisive enough. Be that because of differences in social class, our wealth (or lack), our ethnicity / nationality, our faith (or lack of), our beliefs and politics. Why add to that division on a regional football forum? Some folk will leave a forum or contribute a lot less because the enjoyment of debate and engagement with one another will disappear, especially when it becomes personal (which it did for me)...and besides there's many other things to do.

Maybe I'm just getting older and think that its younger folk who just need to have their battles and fights through posting ...in order to....well I guess...to define themselves. There are so many opportunities to share things we all have in common but it's a rare thing (and I especially learn more about things with people I disagree with than those I agree with). You do well to continue with the "abuse" you say you receive. I'm happier to let someone win an argument if it approaches animosity. 'So what?'... really. Just let someone have the last word. Some folk need to have the last word. 

'Peace and Love' as Ringo would say. It's what he world needs and it's the same for a football forum. We all have a responsibility to be open minded haven't we? To maybe find common ground but if we cannot, rather than insults, then maybe we should just retire from the scene.

Anyway, as ever, I'm probably wasting my time in this part of the forum (a perspective which has also meant me refraining from the football part too). I felt I ought to articulate my thoughts on the kind of increasing animosity I see when I look through posts...I'm sure later tonight I will wish I hadn't and stayed quiet.

 

 

 

 

 

[Aggy 766]

17 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

we can never look up to something good and aspirational,

Do you understand how the monarchy works?