A Load of Squit 5,199 Posted July 17, 2020 Personally, I can't see this happening but stranger things have. How would a £18M salary cap affect us? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8531827/Championship-teams-second-tier-demand-meeting-week-discuss-spending-limits.html Also, we will be a Championship team next season but will we have a representative at the meeting next week? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted July 17, 2020 How will you deal with relegated PL clubs who have player contracts that extend for a couple or more years ? How would bonus payments (promotion) be factored in ? Easy to circumvent by paying an agent a far higher fee which is then passed on to the player for 'consultation' work It's already rife, so it would merely increase Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PurpleCanary 5,577 Posted July 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said: Personally, I can't see this happening but stranger things have. How would a £18M salary cap affect us? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8531827/Championship-teams-second-tier-demand-meeting-week-discuss-spending-limits.html Also, we will be a Championship team next season but will we have a representative at the meeting next week? This was first reported a week or two back, with some allowance being made for relegated clubs, so the limit would not apply to them in the first season. I can't see it getting through either. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,568 Posted July 17, 2020 Norwich were paying £15m in player salaries when relegated with Alex Neil. It is expected to be considerably lower than that next season - so this wouldn’t affect Norwich. £18m is very high so can’t see this catching many teams out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,711 Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said: Norwich were paying £15m in player salaries when relegated with Alex Neil. It is expected to be considerably lower than that next season - so this wouldn’t affect Norwich. £18m is very high so can’t see this catching many teams out. You say that, but apparently: 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,199 Posted July 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, hogesar said: You say that, but apparently: 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m Is that total wage bill? Does the salary cap only affect the total players wages? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,568 Posted July 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, hogesar said: You say that, but apparently: 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m Oh ****! The salary under Alex Neil was £50m! My mistake. £18m is completely unworkable - seems an odd suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cornish sam 960 Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said: Oh ****! The salary under Alex Neil was £50m! My mistake. £18m is completely unworkable - seems an odd suggestion. I was going to say, didn't they say we had the highest wage bill the championship had ever seen a few years ago at £54m? This has obviously been blown out of the water and pi55ed all over if those figures are accurate though! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,199 Posted July 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, hogesar said: You say that, but apparently: 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m 4: Huddersfield £62.6m 5: Fulham £54.3m 6: Middlesbrough £48.7m 7: Cardiff City £48.4m 8: Derby £40.4m 9: Birmingham £38.5m 10: Reading £35.3m 11: Leeds £31.3m 12: Hull £31.1m 13: QPR £30.6m 14: Sheff Wed £29.3m 15: Nottm Forest £27.7m 16: Bristol City £27.2m OK, just seen that Bethnals quote was way under what it actually is, you can ignore my questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,568 Posted July 17, 2020 1 minute ago, cornish sam said: I was going to say, didn't they say we had the highest wage bill the championship had ever seen a few years ago at £54m? This has obviously been blown out of the water and pi55ed all over if those figures are accurate though! It was only the largest for the period of time between Norwich reporting their accounts and Newcastle reporting theirs. Not sure the accuracy of those figures, but no surprise that Stoke have big wages (not sure about Swansea but depends when this was reported). The average total salary appears to be above £18m so to suggest that as the cap is weird. Would be interesting to see more information on this, as I can’t believe 18m is a genuine suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dylanisabaddog 4,961 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bill said: How will you deal with relegated PL clubs who have player contracts that extend for a couple or more years ? How would bonus payments (promotion) be factored in ? Easy to circumvent by paying an agent a far higher fee which is then passed on to the player for 'consultation' work It's already rife, so it would merely increase That is against the rules. The punishment is relegation. If you are aware of any cases where this has happened, please share Edited July 17, 2020 by dylanisabaddog Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
king canary 7,645 Posted July 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said: It was only the largest for the period of time between Norwich reporting their accounts and Newcastle reporting theirs. Not sure the accuracy of those figures, but no surprise that Stoke have big wages (not sure about Swansea but depends when this was reported). The average total salary appears to be above £18m so to suggest that as the cap is weird. Would be interesting to see more information on this, as I can’t believe 18m is a genuine suggestion. Well it has to be significantly lower than it is now otherwise its pointless. It won't come in this year as I imagine clubs would need a few years notice but to be honest it is much needed- Championship finances are an utter basket case at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keelansgrandad 6,679 Posted July 17, 2020 I think it is a sensible idea. Maybe £18M is not feasible but for just a 25 player first team squad a cap of £25M is still a 20K a week contract per player. And that £25M should be in place for 5 years thus bringing down the wages gradually. Something has to be done to stop the excesses of football. No-one dares to touch the EPL but the EFL could make a start. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Edwards 2,252 Posted July 17, 2020 Nice to see Stoke getting VFM 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted July 17, 2020 8 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said: That is against the rules. The punishment is relegation. If you are aware of any cases where this has happened, please share try Rennes FC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,776 Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Bill said: try Rennes FC I didn't realise they played in the Championship. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, hogesar said: You say that, but apparently: 1: Stoke City £94.2m 2: West Brom £92.2m 3: Swansea City £90.7m Swansea's numbers are either way off, or haven't been updated since their Premiership years https://www.swanseacity.com/news/swansea-city-confirm-latest-accounts Swansea City has reported a pre-tax loss of £7million for the financial year ending July 31, 2019 in its latest set of accounts, which are in the process of being filed at Companies House. The club employed an average of 359 members of staff, including playing staff and part-time matchday staff, during the year at a cost of £48.9 million. This compared with 409 staff members at a cost of £92.5 million the previous year, a reduction in staff costs of £43.6 million. Edited July 17, 2020 by Icecream Snow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icecream Snow 761 Posted July 17, 2020 Also West Brom https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/04/01/west-brom-accounts-reveal-7m-losses/ "Those losses were largely offset by contract clauses which saw the club slash its wage bill almost in half, from £92.2m in the top flight down to £46.8m in the second tier. " Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,153 Posted July 17, 2020 31 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said: I think it is a sensible idea. Maybe £18M is not feasible but for just a 25 player first team squad a cap of £25M is still a 20K a week contract per player. And that £25M should be in place for 5 years thus bringing down the wages gradually. Something has to be done to stop the excesses of football. No-one dares to touch the EPL but the EFL could make a start. I had to check your numbers - what the **** were we paying players to run up a bill of £54 million? Gives some context to Webber’s statements about the club being in a mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duncan Edwards 2,252 Posted July 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nuff Said said: what the **** were we paying players to run up a bill of £54 million? Too ****ing much! 🤑 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted July 17, 2020 6 minutes ago, Nuff Said said: I had to check your numbers - what the **** were we paying players to run up a bill of £54 million? Gives some context to Webber’s statements about the club being in a mess. Because that was what £130m plus income in the PL afforded and what it demonstrates is how stupid the bleats have been that we did bot follow that route this time A salary cap will not work in the Championship, and as other limits have not been enforced I doubt this would either Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,711 Posted July 17, 2020 59 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said: It was only the largest for the period of time between Norwich reporting their accounts and Newcastle reporting theirs. Not sure the accuracy of those figures, but no surprise that Stoke have big wages (not sure about Swansea but depends when this was reported). The average total salary appears to be above £18m so to suggest that as the cap is weird. Would be interesting to see more information on this, as I can’t believe 18m is a genuine suggestion. Note that these were pulled from an article published June 2019. Annoyingly I now can't find the bloody link again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bill 1,788 Posted July 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, hogesar said: Note that these were pulled from an article published June 2019. Annoyingly I now can't find the bloody link again! here we are https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/409699 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hogesar 9,711 Posted July 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bill said: here we are https://www.ja606.co.uk/articles/viewArticle/409699 Oddly not where I got it from! But same figures Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
City 2nd 191 Posted July 17, 2020 So according to many 18m is chicken feed. Factor in that stadiums are unlikely to be full for the upcoming season due to Covid, clubs having to adhere to social distancing and supporters making personal choices, gate receipts will be minimal across all leagues, factor in how much loss clubs are already facing from this season, and 18m cap on player salaries is not an out of the way sum for a championship side. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Mr Webber will want to be on the right side of such a figure if only to keep the club afloat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonzo 198 Posted July 17, 2020 The accounts for all the clubs can be found online just look up their financial statements. Most clubs don't detail their wages as a separate item although Swansea do at £43 M odd as Ice-cream Snow notes on a turnover of £68m. Swansea made a £30m profit on player trading a £34m annual loss and have a net worth of £11m. Stoke have a £15m loss on t/o of £70m with a profit of £18m on player trading although their balance sheet shows £66m negative. Middlesborough show a £2m profit on £55m t/o with a £33m profit on player trading and a £55m negative balance sheet value. The profits shown on player trading are slightly skewed in most sets of accounts as many clubs don't report trading in the same way as each other so a like for like comparison is difficult as some include amortization of their player contract values in this number. For those of a non financial disposition the conclusion is that running a football club is a Sh*t business to be in. The only people getting rich are the players. Most EFL clubs are deeply in the hole and making losses. A salary cap isn't a bad idea for the sake of the future of football. However it is difficult to agree on a fair way to do it. If we have cash in the bank developing the ground might be the best move we can make in terms of securing better future revenues- assuming we can fill the seats. However it is also clear that developing players is a key revenue stream and perhaps the most important part of the business. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,568 Posted July 17, 2020 1 hour ago, City 2nd said: So according to many 18m is chicken feed. Factor in that stadiums are unlikely to be full for the upcoming season due to Covid, clubs having to adhere to social distancing and supporters making personal choices, gate receipts will be minimal across all leagues, factor in how much loss clubs are already facing from this season, and 18m cap on player salaries is not an out of the way sum for a championship side. And you can bet your bottom dollar that Mr Webber will want to be on the right side of such a figure if only to keep the club afloat. The problem with a cap as low as £18m is it will make the gulf between the Championship and the Premier League even larger. When Norwich had a £55m salary they were the smallest budget in the Premier League and that was before the larger TV deal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
City 2nd 191 Posted July 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said: The problem with a cap as low as £18m is it will make the gulf between the Championship and the Premier League even larger. When Norwich had a £55m salary they were the smallest budget in the Premier League and that was before the larger TV deal. I wouldn’t disagree with you BY&G. Trouble is, the lower EFL clubs will be the ones carrying this through and I think they are collectively the ones putting that figure forward. The gulf might well become bigger, but I don’t think that will actually bother the EPL or EFL. Unfortunately we are now a championship side governed by the EFL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darth Canary1 91 Posted July 17, 2020 A salary cap is the only way to save football, but needs to include the Premier league otherwise as others have said the gulf becomes even more massive than it is now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
City 2nd 191 Posted July 17, 2020 9 minutes ago, Darth Canary1 said: A salary cap is the only way to save football, but needs to include the Premier league otherwise as others have said the gulf becomes even more massive than it is now. Agree DC. Unfortunately the big six in the EPL will see that it doesn’t include the prem, otherwise TV rights would be severely impacted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
