The Brexit Thread (reprise)

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

We will move back towards the EU SM/CU in due course.

 

Agreed, all sides recognise the benefits of a closer trading relationship and things are bound to move in that direction. It won’t happen with current Leaderships but an evolutionary process. 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

28 minutes ago, Herman said:

Yes, it was your original point. My apologies for not reading the thread properly and missing important parts of it.😳👍

No I welcome the roundabout about discussion. I think most on here are actually in agreement its just the time and how far.

The one thing I think that did come up for me is that the idea that in some way Brexit is settled is false. Its clearly very far from that and to me anyway it looks as if the electorate are in the process of a handbrake turn already - another year of Johnson (aka the Brexit party), higher taxes, cost of living wallops, loss of benefits for some with endless guff and hollow promises and almost anything is possible. The electorate will be even more so looking for a lightning rod (and the even the right wing papers are moving as they recognize this). I would give Brexit just this year to show real pounds in the pocket improvements for all else I think its days are numbered.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[ricardo 7,396]

3 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

No I welcome the roundabout about discussion. I think most on here are actually in agreement its just the time and how far.

The one thing I think that did come up for me is that the idea that in some way Brexit is settled is false. Its clearly very far from that and to me anyway it looks as if the electorate are in the process of a handbrake turn already - another year of Johnson (aka the Brexit party), higher taxes, cost of living wallops, loss of benefits for some with endless guff and hollow promises and almost anything is possible. Th electorate will be even more so looking for a lightning rod (and the even the right wing papers are moving as they recognize this). I would give Brexit just this year to show real pounds in the pocket improvements for all else I think its days are numbered.

There will be agitators for a return to Brussels for years to come but as for whipping up enthusiasm for another referendum I think that is as likely as the Devil promoting snowball fights in Hell.

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

14 hours ago, ricardo said:

They should have no problem making it a pledge in their election manifesto then.

Think that is a given, no way anyone could hold a referendum without it having been a manifesto commitment.

But it is very unlikely that would be the initial step, far more likely that the opposition will campaign initially on negotiating a sensible deal with the EU to replace the abortion that Johnson landed us with.

Whether that is feasible or not remains to be seen, but after another 3 years of Brexit related sh*t, such as we experienced last year, I reckon it would go down pretty well with the electorate.

[Van wink 2,994]

13 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Think that is a given, no way anyone could hold a referendum without it having been a manifesto commitment.

But it is very unlikely that would be the initial step, far more likely that the opposition will campaign initially on negotiating a sensible deal with the EU to replace the abortion that Johnson landed us with.

Whether that is feasible or not remains to be seen, but after another 3 years of Brexit related sh*t, such as we experienced last year, I reckon it would go down pretty well with the electorate.

Will probably end up with the deal TM negotiated.

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

53 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Will probably end up with the deal TM negotiated.

I don't think so   😊

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

8 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

I don't think so   😊

TM's deal was constrained by having to appeal to the ERG/DUP and not have a border in the Irish Sea. It was in effect the only deal that could square that circle and in effect kept the whole of the UK in CU. 

Johnson just lied about his deal for the simpletons  - enough said. Even he, Frost etc. were/are trying to unravel it.

A new government not subject to the the ERG nutters would be able to deliver a cleaner CU or even SM deal.  After all the DUP may well be wiped out in May anyway. The SM deal for NI works well there.

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

19 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

TM's deal was constrained by having to appeal to the ERG/DUP and not have a border in the Irish Sea. It was in effect the only deal that could square that circle and in effect kept the whole of the UK in CU. 

Johnson just lied about his deal for the simpletons  - enough said. Even he, Frost etc. were/are trying to unravel it.

A new government not subject to the the ERG nutters would be able to deliver a cleaner CU or even SM deal.  After all the DUP may well be wiped out in May anyway. The SM deal for NI works well there.

Exactly so, and let's hope the DUP do get the hammering in May that they appear to be heading for. As you say most people in NI seem pretty happy with the deal, why wouldn't they be? As after all they're the only bit of the UK that still enjoys many of the benefits of the SIngle Market.

But without Frosty or the pathetic posturing of the DUP to back him up I imagine that Johnson is going to struggle badly in his continuing attempts to unpick the deal - trite statement really, after all can anyone name any aspect of being PM that Johnson doesn't struggle badly with?  😂

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

On 04/01/2022 at 10:09, Creative Midfielder said:

Exactly so, and let's hope the DUP do get the hammering in May that they appear to be heading for. As you say most people in NI seem pretty happy with the deal, why wouldn't they be? As after all they're the only bit of the UK that still enjoys many of the benefits of the SIngle Market.

But without Frosty or the pathetic posturing of the DUP to back him up I imagine that Johnson is going to struggle badly in his continuing attempts to unpick the deal - trite statement really, after all can anyone name any aspect of being PM that Johnson doesn't struggle badly with?  😂

As above, the DUP appear to be getting ever more desperate and their posturing ever more pathetic https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59913417

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

3 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

As above, the DUP appear to be getting ever more desperate and their posturing ever more pathetic https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59913417

I sense the DUP antics as with Brexit itself only hastens a border poll. 

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

58 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I sense the DUP antics as with Brexit itself only hastens a border poll. 

That is certainly how it looks to me.

It seems almost certain that they will be overtaken by Sinn Fein in the May elections, and you begin to wonder if they will even be the second biggest party after the May elections - if not they will have rendered themselves totally irrelevant and it couldn't happen to a more deserving group of politicians.

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

Here's yet another Brexit win for the @SwindonCanary's of the world, or stupid and deliberate economic self-harm to the UK as everybody other than the Brexit idiots would see it https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/jan/09/brexit-decision-left-uk-firms-paying-10-more-than-eu-rivals-for-emissions

[Herman 9,819]

 

[Creative Midfielder 2,001]

Foreign Secretary Liz Truss says she will not accept a deal which means goods from Britain being checked as they enter Northern Ireland.   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-59927034

Our idiot of a foreign secretary must have the memory of a goldfish as she's clearly forgotten that she already has done exactly that when she voted to approve Johnson's shocker of a deal two years ago, and has been bleating ever since about what a fantastic deal it was - then old Frosty jumps ship and apparently total amnesia strikes 😂😂

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

There's a certain ironic karma about Vote Leave's Cummings and Johnson in reality calling each other liars.

Of course we all know they both are. That was after all Vote Leave's mantra all along. Lie, lie and lie again.

 

 

 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

More Brexit shenanigans.

Any guess what even bigger lies Johnson will come up to cover his existing Brexit fiasco and push it further into the future? 

 

 

 

 

[nevermind, neoliberalism has had it 159]

Oh yes Brexit, its finally all coming out how we have been played and why a small cabal of Leave right wingers could get away with it.

Boris is a clone and part of 'operation surprise'

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/05/15/operation-leaked-emails-intelligence-coup-boris-johnson/

[Herman 9,819]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

More Brexit shenanigans.

Any guess what even bigger lies Johnson will come up to cover his existing Brexit fiasco and push it further into the future? 

 

 

 

 

Listening to Sinn Fein I get the feeling that the meeting didn't go to well. 

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

Listening to Sinn Fein I get the feeling that the meeting didn't go to well. 

The 'Protocol' is not in the competence of Stormont to change/alter. Yes they can chivy but its an international treaty above them.  

Frankly the DUP are suspending the democratic process as leverage now aided and abetted by Johnson it seems. That can not be allowed as equally if we placate the DUP dunces then SF could play the same game and refuse to nominate a Speaker until say we've had a border poll or the Protocol is put back as it was. 'Nationalists' have after all nominally lost their EU citizenship and rights (although many will have access to an Irish passport)!

That Johnson has ballsed everything up is beyond doubt. My guess is that we'll have to wait 6 months and have new elections when the DUPes may even come third.

 

 

 

[sonyc 5,541]

On 28/10/2021 at 08:49, Yellow Fever said:

Hardly needs saying but...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59070020

The impact of Brexit on the UK economy will be worse in the long run compared to the coronavirus pandemic, the chairman of the Office for Budget Responsibility has said.

Richard Hughes said leaving the EU would reduce the UK's potential GDP by about 4% in the long term.

He said forecasts showed the pandemic would reduce GDP "by a further 2%".

"In the long term it is the case that Brexit has a bigger impact than the pandemic", he told the BBC.

I have a long memory YF because I remembered this post! - and I have always been interested in the economic effect (as well as the interplay with the pandemic). Burgess here has tweeted the BoE figures. And whilst he tweets about the side of the bus it is very concerning about what is happening to the NHS (the mythical 350m a week). You worry about anyone needing health treatment or those ailing. It has been such a catastrophic decision. 

 

 

 

[sonyc 5,541]

5 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

That Johnson has ballsed everything up is beyond doubt

Copied his comment tonight on the news. I suppose it's not surprising. Sadly.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

32 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Copied his comment tonight on the news. I suppose it's not surprising. Sadly.

Totally unbelievable levels of stupidity & incompetence!

[Herman 9,819]

The opening question by the C4 reporter is a doozy.😀

 

[A Load of Squit 5,208]

This speech should be played on a loop everywhere in the HOC, HOL, No. 10 and anywhere a lying leaver makes a statement about Brexit/the NI Protocol. 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,577]

16 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

The 'Protocol' is not in the competence of Stormont to change/alter. Yes they can chivy but its an international treaty above them.  

Frankly the DUP are suspending the democratic process as leverage now aided and abetted by Johnson it seems. That can not be allowed as equally if we placate the DUP dunces then SF could play the same game and refuse to nominate a Speaker until say we've had a border poll or the Protocol is put back as it was. 'Nationalists' have after all nominally lost their EU citizenship and rights (although many will have access to an Irish passport)!

That Johnson has ballsed everything up is beyond doubt. My guess is that we'll have to wait 6 months and have new elections when the DUPes may even come third.

 

 

 

It's not in Stormont's competence, but it would be entirely possible for the UK to put it in Stormont's competence, allow it to manage the border in the Irish sea and authorise it to negotiate on its own behalf with the EU, while guaranteeing to support any decisions of Northern ireland on the subject; the whole current problem is that the UK and EU have been negotiating over Northern Ireland's head, which is untenable whatever happens. 

[sonyc 5,541]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

This speech should be played on a loop everywhere in the HOC, HOL, No. 10 and anywhere a lying leaver makes a statement about Brexit/the NI Protocol. 

 

I've been surprised we haven't actually heard many commentators make statements like this in our politics..and I'm meaning here in such a direct fashion. It's like everyone feels ashamed or awkward about it...that we should be moving on, sorting things out, being practical, accepting. Yet, how is that even possible when something so fundamental has been analysed so much in depth and then agreed in an international treaty? Parliamentary privilege prevents statements being made like these by Terry Reintke. 

Anyway, it is good to hear and then read about someone who is pro Britain and represents the half of the electorate that didn't want it to happen. That half has been castigated by the media and right wingers as being moaners. Not considered people who are actually patriotic. 

I was reading about the recent french elections and the democratic crisis in France. That huge swathes of society are voiceless. Not represented. I believe we have the same issue here. The fact that the Brexit vote was hugely swayed by older voters. This was one extract from Unherd about the French election. Maybe it is an "unpalatable truth"? Too n*z* I'm sure.

We now have a system where every single day that passes this country becomes more 'remain'. And that is even disregarding the lies it was served to create a leave vote.

Do we keep calling out the lies or concentrate on a fairer way of deciding policy, the big decisions that affect our country, the needs of our future inhabitants, the conditions and guidelines for referenda?  Or, both. 

It is totally the government's role to govern and to heal differences. Mediation is precisely the job of politics. That is the meaning. What we are being 'fed' is just culture war rubbish. About time we got some proper leadership. Terry Reintke's implores some honesty in addressing things. We need the same.

Here is that extract from Unherd. It is very contentious. Yet, it asks a question. I'm not sure I agree 100% but it has made me think a lot more about suffrage.

Edited May 17, 2022 by sonyc

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

29 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I've been surprised we haven't actually heard many commentators make statements like this in our politics..and I'm meaning here in such a direct fashion. It's like everyone feels ashamed or awkward about it...that we should be moving on, sorting things out, being practical, accepting. Yet, how is that even possible when something so fundamental has been analysed so much in depth and then agreed in an international treaty? Parliamentary privilege prevents statements being made like these of Terry Reintke. 

Anyway, it is good to hear and then read about someone who is pro Britain and represents the half of the electorate that didn't want it to happen. That half has been castigated by the media and right wingers as being moaners. Not considered people who are actually patriotic. 

I was reading about the recent french elections and the democratic crisis in France. That huge swathes of society are voiceless. Not represented. I believe we have the same issue here. The fact that the Brexit vote was hugely swayed by older voters. This was one extract from Unherd about the French election. Maybe it is an "unpalatable truth"? Too n*z* I'm sure.

We now have a system where every single day that passes this country becomes more 'remain'. And that is even disregarding the lies it was served to create a leave vote.

Do we keep calling out the lies or concentrate on a fairer way of deciding policy, the big decisions that affect our country, the needs of our future inhabitants, the conditions and guidelines for referenda?  Or, both. 

It is totally the government's role to govern and to heal differences. Mediation is precisely the job of politics. That is the meaning. What we are being 'fed' is just culture war rubbish. About time we got some proper leadership. Terry Reintke's implores some honesty in addressing things. We need the same.

Here is that extract from Unherd. It is very contentious. Yet, it asks a question. I'm not sure I agree 100% but it has made me think a lot more about suffrage.

Good - I recall somewhere else saying there was a good case for an upper limit on suffrage - 75 say as much as starting it at 16.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

As per Peston if we are now going to have the equivalent of a trade war car crash in short order with the EU please let it be in Brexity areas. Its what they deserve.

[horsefly 4,310]

26 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

As per Peston if we are now going to have the equivalent of a trade war car crash in short order with the EU please let it be in Brexity areas. Its what they deserve.

Perhaps all those who voted leave can be deducted a Brexit levy from their wages/benefits, and that levy given to all those who voted remain. Seems only fair during a cost of living crisis being exacerbated by a vote for economic suicide by those without the brain to see what they were doing.

[1902 1,167]

11 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Good - I recall somewhere else saying there was a good case for an upper limit on suffrage - 75 say as much as starting it at 16.

Why is economic activity a pre-requisite for a say in society? Does this also include the unemployed, those who bring up families? 

Speaking as a remainer/rejoiner who is a good 40 years from retirement, I find it bizarre that anyone would wish to disenfranchise those who traditionally have been some of the most vulnerable in our society.

Until the day I die, I will deserve representation and a say in who represents me.

 

 

*As an aside, the France example is also a profoundly stupid. Melanchon and Le Pen both promised to reduce the retirement age or maintain it, the only person who wasnt trying to bribe voters approaching retirement with the promise of more money from the young was Macron who was more popular with retirees. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by 1902