The Brexit Thread (reprise)

[Herman 9,755]

Like all my football predictions I called this one wrong. Well done Kim. A good win in a nasty run election thanks to Galloway and his dreadful followers.

Batley and Spen: Labour hold seat in by-election

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57691543

[BigFish 1,986]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

Like all my football predictions I called this one wrong. Well done Kim. A good win in a nasty run election thanks to Galloway and his dreadful followers.

Batley and Spen: Labour hold seat in by-election

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-57691543

Could well mark a high water mark for Johnsonism

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

3 hours ago, BigFish said:

Could well mark a high water mark for Johnsonism

Let's hope so, it was certainly a very good result for Labour given the number of votes that odious creep Galloway managed to hoover up and that Batley and Spen (despite what people might assume) is nowhere near a rock solid Laboutr seat as per Hartlepool - it was Tory for 14 years before Tony Blair swept the board in 1997.

Having said that I get the feeling that Labour won despite Starmer rather than because of him - i.e. a good candidate with very trong local resonance.

I'm beginning to wonder what Starmer does with his time because leading the opposition to this horrible government doesn't seem feature much, if at all.

[Herman 9,755]

He doesn't seem to be winning over proper Labour supporters? 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

No he doesn't, in fact I'm not sure he's winning over anyone at all - don't think Labour would have stood a chance in the Batley election if they hadn't been somewhat lucky in having a very capable local candidate who was also Jo Cox's sister. Admittedly the closeness was also largely down to the odious Galloway trying to muddy the waters but even so....

Think SKS needs to take his title as Leader of the Opposition a little more seriously and do some real opposing. I also think he needs to take the title rather more literally - I've said this many times before but I think it is as true as ever, perhaps even more so now, that SKS has got no chance of beating the Tories if he persists in thinking that Labour can do it on its own. He should be not only getting Labour's ducks in a row (which he conspicuously hasn't so far) but he also needs to build a broader opposition involving other parties which will co-operate in Parliament and electorally instead of splitting the anti-Tory vote in so many winnable Tory held seats.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

See that Frosty has been at it again https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/04/uk-eu-relations-deteriorate-strange-david-frost-remarks-brexit  - looks as though he is actively trying to incite rioting in NI in order to avoid implementing the agreement he negotiated - genuinely evil and massively damaging to the UK.

[Herman 9,755]

This is a fair point. It never made sense to me and only ever helped Sinn Fein et al get nearer to where they wanted to be.

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/07/the-one-incomprehensible-and-inexplicable-thing-about-brexit-why-did-the-democratic-unionist-party-support-it/

[horsefly 4,298]

41 minutes ago, Herman said:

This is a fair point. It never made sense to me and only ever helped Sinn Fein et al get nearer to where they wanted to be.

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/07/the-one-incomprehensible-and-inexplicable-thing-about-brexit-why-did-the-democratic-unionist-party-support-it/

It was all about the money wasn't it: 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-dup-deal-billion-pound-bribe-magic-money-tree-criticism-latest-a7809416.html

Theresa May accused of bribing DUP with £1bn deal despite claiming 'there is no magic money tree'

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

42 minutes ago, Herman said:

This is a fair point. It never made sense to me and only ever helped Sinn Fein et al get nearer to where they wanted to be.

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/07/the-one-incomprehensible-and-inexplicable-thing-about-brexit-why-did-the-democratic-unionist-party-support-it/

Thanks for the link, as usual DAG is pretty spot on - it has always seemed very odd that the DUP and other unionists supported Brexit but when DAG says that this is the one totally incomprehensible part of Brexit I think he is rather overlooking the fact that the DUP at least, were paid very handsomely in cash by Theresa May to support it. By the time that they were finally betrayed by Johnson (who I don't think even gave them any more cash 😂) then they were in too deep to back out and their position of strength had evaporated any way.

They have effectively trashed their party, and unionism generally, but I guess they must have assumed (stupidly) that they could take the cash and TM's deal would eventually go through and they'd come out of it alright with the UK still in the Single Market until a frictionless trade deal could be agreed - i.e. forever 😂

Don't think they saw Johnson's stab in the back coming until it was way, way too late - still it couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people!

[Herman 9,755]

All they had to do was phone the LibDems and find out what working with the tories is like. The most stupid, damaging and self defeating decision going. What looks good at the time ends up with nothing but the blame and and a crippled party.😀

[horsefly 4,298]

45 minutes ago, Herman said:

All they had to do was phone the LibDems and find out what working with the tories is like. The most stupid, damaging and self defeating decision going. What looks good at the time ends up with nothing but the blame and and a crippled party.😀

I think you've just found a brexit positive!!!

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

4 hours ago, Herman said:

All they had to do was phone the LibDems and find out what working with the tories is like. The most stupid, damaging and self defeating decision going. What looks good at the time ends up with nothing but the blame and and a crippled party.😀

Very true.

At least the Lib Dems are starting to show some early signs of recovery but it has taken them a good long time. I don't think the DUP have got that much time, seems very likely there'll be a border poll and re-unification of Ireland before the DUP can stage any sort of recovery - still can't imagine that they'll be missed by many 😃

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

What a shame - seems as though yet another of Johnson's lies is now unravelling https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jul/08/brexit-divorce-bill-higher-than-uks-forecasts-brussels-estimates

Makes you wonder whether there was anything he said about Brexit that was in fact truthful, seems highly unlikely 😂

[BigFish 1,986]

On 05/07/2021 at 18:21, Creative Midfielder said:

They have effectively trashed their party, and unionism generally, but I guess they must have assumed (stupidly) that they could take the cash and TM's deal would eventually go through and they'd come out of it alright with the UK still in the Single Market until a frictionless trade deal could be agreed - i.e. forever 😂

Don't think they saw Johnson's stab in the back coming until it was way, way too late - still it couldn't have happened to a nicer group of people!

In a similar manner to the LibDems and Farage they were caught out by the hubris of little parties when they get a sniff of power. They lacked the poitical acumen required to manage the long term outcomes and were easily bought in the short term.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

See Frosty has been at it again https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/northern-ireland-brexit-dup-theresa-may-irish-sea-b945041.html 😂

He really is a thicko, and sounding thicker every time he opens his mouth recently, but he must also be really desperate if he's reached the stage of blaming Theresa May for the problems with the NI Protocol when everybody knows they are the direct result of the changes that he and Johnson made to her deal 😂

Also interesting that although some of us have been saying for a long time that the only explanation for Frosty and Johnson signing such shockingly bad deal was that they had no intention of honouring it, today was the first time that (I've heard) an insider has voiced exactly those same sentiments.

[SwindonCanary 455]

https://youtu.be/faPCusPlj2c

 

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

12 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

See Frosty has been at it again https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/northern-ireland-brexit-dup-theresa-may-irish-sea-b945041.html 😂

He really is a thicko, and sounding thicker every time he opens his mouth recently, but he must also be really desperate if he's reached the stage of blaming Theresa May for the problems with the NI Protocol when everybody knows they are the direct result of the changes that he and Johnson made to her deal 😂

Also interesting that although some of us have been saying for a long time that the only explanation for Frosty and Johnson signing such shockingly bad deal was that they had no intention of honouring it, today was the first time that (I've heard) an insider has voiced exactly those same sentiments.

 

[horsefly 4,298]

11 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

 

A simple and brilliant evisceration of that lying buffoon.

[SwindonCanary 455]

 

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

 

I just had to respond to the idiocy of this image. The stars DO NOT represent the countries who are members of the EU. Never did, and never have. So the buffoon who devised this has just managed to prove himself an utter idiot. At least to that degree it represents a good symbolic representation of brexiteers level of intelligence.

[sonyc 5,511]

A sober piece in the Financial Times today. 

* Brexit has not enabled the UK to gain control over its economic choices because it has to persuade other countries. Crucially, the UK no longer has a platform inside the EU to be influential. It has lost a lot of international respect 

* It asks whether citizens have taken back control over their lives and concludes that for businesses trading with the EU or for people wanting to work and study there...a great deal of control has been lost.

* It states that public unhappiness was manipulated into a kind of hostility towards the EU. We can see that in the right wing tabloid press even today and folk buy into these messages. The EU too was mostly innocent of what some Brexit supporters disliked most,  migration.

* Ironically, inflows of migrants from the rest of the world have now jumped (generally we have seen a big rise in net migration) as those from EU states have considerably declined. Has this been an unintended outcome therefore?

The overall judgement over the medium and long term is that Brexit constitutes a considerable loss to the UK and in the immediate context it is considered a rather sad Pyrrhic victory. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by sonyc

[SwindonCanary 455]

46 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I just had to respond to the idiocy of this image. The stars DO NOT represent the countries who are members of the EU. Never did, and never have. So the buffoon who devised this has just managed to prove himself an utter idiot. At least to that degree it represents a good symbolic representation of brexiteers level of intelligence.

I only put it up there to upset Billy  🤣

[Well b back 3,201]

18 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

I only put it up there to upset Billy  🤣

Thanks Jools

[horsefly 4,298]

Didn't she say we were on the verge of a fantastic deal quite some time ago? Anyone surprised it turned out to be complete fantasy and lies? Meanwhile, the brexitards have devastated our trade with the EU.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-demands-resignation-of-no-10-ally-accused-of-trying-to-block-bbc-appointment/ar-AALZP9b?ocid=msedgntp

Britain unlikely to strike trade deal with US before 2023, admits Liz Truss

[Surfer 1,547]

Oh, what's that you say, another lie? No, no it is not possible, everyone knows that Belgium isn't part of the EU.....

 

 

Edited July 11, 2021 by Surfer

[SwindonCanary 455]

Let us look at the minimum wages in some EU countries compared to the UK - UK = 10.47 euro /hr : Italy does not even have a minimum wage , Greece 4.8 E, Spain 6.9 E , Portugal 3.9 E , Romania 3 E , Bulgaria 2 E , Croatia 3.5 E .

EU is NOT the land of milk and honey for you lot .

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

16 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Let us look at the minimum wages in some EU countries compared to the UK - UK = 10.47 euro /hr : Italy does not even have a minimum wage , Greece 4.8 E, Spain 6.9 E , Portugal 3.9 E , Romania 3 E , Bulgaria 2 E , Croatia 3.5 E .

EU is NOT the land of milk and honey for you lot .

Have you taken into account the different cost of living in the different countries?

For instance how much does a pint of milk or a jar of honey cost in those countries?

If you compare the price of an average basket of food you'll probably find that where wages are lower the prices are probably also lower.

Statistics mean nothing without context.

[Yellow Fever 3,771]

18 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Let us look at the minimum wages in some EU countries compared to the UK - UK = 10.47 euro /hr : Italy does not even have a minimum wage , Greece 4.8 E, Spain 6.9 E , Portugal 3.9 E , Romania 3 E , Bulgaria 2 E , Croatia 3.5 E .

EU is NOT the land of milk and honey for you lot .

Must come as quite as shock to you to discover that all the EU countries have different local wage/tax policies. Not a 'superstate' after all is it ? I wonder what else you'll' eventual discover. Possibly the truth.

[SwindonCanary 455]

43 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Have you taken into account the different cost of living in the different countries?

For instance how much does a pint of milk or a jar of honey cost in those countries?

If you compare the price of an average basket of food you'll probably find that where wages are lower the prices are probably also lower.

Statistics mean nothing without context.

Cappuccino (regular)	1.64 €	1.00-2.75
Coke/Pepsi (0.33 liter bottle)	1.74 €	1.20-2.50
Water (0.33 liter bottle)	1.17 €	1.00-2.00
Markets	Edit
Milk (regular), (1 liter)	0.79 €	0.58-1.00
Loaf of Fresh White Bread (500g)	0.99 €	0.50-2.20
Rice (white), (1kg)	1.01 €	0.68-1.90
Eggs (regular) (12)	1.87 €	1.19-3.00
Local Cheese (1kg)	9.61 €	5.00-20.00
Chicken Fillets (1kg)	5.96 €	3.00-8.00
Beef Round (1kg) (or Equivalent Back Leg Red Meat)	10.50 €	5.50-16.00
Apples (1kg)	1.73 €	0.99-2.50
Banana (1kg)	1.57 €	1.00-3.00
Oranges (1kg)	1.41 €	0.65-2.89
Tomato (1kg)	1.64 €	0.90-2.99
Potato (1kg)	1.16 €	0.59-2.00
Onion (1kg)	1.15 €	0.70-2.00
Lettuce (1 head)	0.94 €	0.60-1.39
Water (1.5 liter bottle)	0.62 €	0.30-1.00
Bottle of Wine (Mid-Range)	5.00 €	2.50-8.00
Domestic Beer (0.5 liter bottle)	0.88 €	0.50-1.50
Imported Beer (0.33 liter bottle)	1.50 €	0.70-2.50
Cigarettes 20 Pack (Marlboro)	5.00 €	4.90-6.00
Transportation	Edit
One-way Ticket (Local Transport)	1.40 €	1.05-2.30
Monthly Pass (Regular Price)	40.00 €	29.00-59.00
Taxi Start (Normal Tariff)	3.50 €	2.40-5.00
Taxi 1km (Normal Tariff)	1.05 €	0.82-2.00
Taxi 1hour Waiting (Normal Tariff)	20.21 €	18.10-30.00
Gasoline (1 liter)	1.28 €	1.02-1.45
Volkswagen Golf 1.4 90 KW Trendline (Or Equivalent New Car)	20,000.00 €	18,000.00-23,710.00
Toyota Corolla Sedan 1.6l 97kW Comfort (Or Equivalent New Car)	21,123.59 €	18,831.76-25,000.00
Utilities (Monthly)	Edit
Basic (Electricity, Heating, Cooling, Water, Garbage) for 85m2 Apartment	114.51 €	75.00-200.00
1 min. of Prepaid Mobile Tariff Local (No Discounts or Plans)	0.16 €	0.06-0.22
Internet (60 Mbps or More, Unlimited Data, Cable/ADSL)	39.24 €	25.22-60.00
Sports And Leisure	Edit
Fitness Club, Monthly Fee for 1 Adult	37.18 €	25.00-50.00
Tennis Court Rent (1 Hour on Weekend)	11.99 €	6.00-22.70
Cinema, International Release, 1 Seat	8.00 €	6.50-10.00
Childcare	Edit
Preschool (or Kindergarten), Full Day, Private, Monthly for 1 Child	362.28 €	250.00-500.00
International Primary School, Yearly for 1 Child	7,274.13 €	5,000.00-12,000.00
Clothing And Shoes	Edit
1 Pair of Jeans (Levis 501 Or Similar)	70.10 €	30.00-100.00
1 Summer Dress in a Chain Store (Zara, H&M, ...)	28.77 €	15.00-45.00
1 Pair of Nike Running Shoes (Mid-Range)	68.27 €	40.00-100.00
1 Pair of Men Leather Business Shoes	85.59 €	49.00-130.00
Rent Per Month	Edit
Apartment (1 bedroom) in City Centre	643.99 €	450.00-1,000.00
Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre	496.01 €	350.00-750.00
Apartment (3 bedrooms) in City Centre	1,014.14 €	685.00-1,600.00
Apartment (3 bedrooms) Outside of Centre	750.67 €	500.00-1,544.33
Buy Apartment Price	Edit
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment in City Centre	2,938.59 €	1,800.00-5,358.03
Price per Square Meter to Buy Apartment Outside of Centre	1,956.80 €	1,200.00-3,500.00
	Edit
	€

 

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By City in Spain

2020102102

Search:

Rank	City	Cost of Living Index	Rent Index	Cost of Living Plus Rent Index	Groceries Index	Restaurant Price Index	Local Purchasing Power Index
1	Bilbao	64.92	28.63	48.15	58.18	62.66	54.85
2	Barcelona	64.56	33.76	50.32	52.74	65.04	54.31
3	Palma de Mallorca	62.49	31.76	48.29	49.71	71.09	49.33
4	Madrid	62.46	33.42	49.04	51.14	65.59	60.79
5	Zaragoza (Saragossa)	57.52	18.95	39.69	50.59	55.95	62.29
6	Granada	55.88	17.79	38.27	46.28	49.25	58.81
7	Valencia	55.35	24.31	41.00	47.81	54.36	61.60
8	Malaga	55.09	26.10	41.69	45.28	54.62	56.89
9	Seville (Sevilla)	54.76	23.18	40.16	51.35	45.92	58.79
10	Santa Cruz de Tenerife	54.57	20.42	38.78	46.93	56.90	59.69
11	Alicante	54.44	21.11	39.03	45.63	54.46	72.67
12	Murcia	54.23	17.05	37.04	45.82	52.95	67.92
13		52.13	24.71	39.45	48.47	47.33

Showing 1 to 13 of 13 entries

 

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by SwindonCanary

[A Load of Squit 5,161]

Like I said, statistics mean nothing without context.