Todders .

[wcorkcanary 4,786]

Dont care if they want him, we want him more.

[Flying Dutchman 766]

Bags of potential and I feel we aren't yet close to seeing the best of him. Currently he is exciting going forward and with the right coaching he could develop other parts of his game and be a very well rounded player.

I've got a lot of time for anyone who can go from Championship bit-part player to one of our best performers in Premier League over only one summer. The guy wants it, he's working hard for it and it's showing.

It may be quite hopeful, but the longer we keep hold of him (along with our other talented young contingent) the better.

[wcorkcanary 4,786]

11 hours ago, Flying Dutchman said:

Bags of potential and I feel we aren't yet close to seeing the best of him. Currently he is exciting going forward and with the right coaching he could develop other parts of his game and be a very well rounded player.

I've got a lot of time for anyone who can go from Championship bit-part player to one of our best performers in Premier League over only one summer. The guy wants it, he's working hard for it and it's showing.

It may be quite hopeful, but the longer we keep hold of him (along with our other talented young contingent) the better.

Yep, couldnt care less about his hairstyle or gloves . Its his feet and what he does with them that counts for me.

[Dr Greenthumb 794]

I’d be interested to see him in the number 10 Role! Much better than Stiepermann! Also, with his prowess in the penalty area, maybe even convert him to a striker!

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

15 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Dont care if they want him, we want him more.

I’d imagine he’d want Liverpool more if they’re interested.

[Mr.Carrow 394]

I remember when Gareth Bale went from a skinny kid with loads of raw potential into a muscular powerhouse, seemingly in a few months. I really hope we see this with Todd. If he was stronger he'd have the world at his feet.

[Petriix 3,222]

I've been really impressed with Cantwell this season. But, is it just me, or is that basically a compilation of every time he didn't give the ball away?

[Capt. Pants 5,015]

First name on the team sheet for me. Fast feet fast brain.

[Pockthorpe 635]

And he’s a Norfolk boy . I bloody love that .

I usually go back into pubs after any away games I go to , and I’ve found that Todd Cantwell is the player opposing fans have consistently talked about and praised more than any other Norwich player this season . Max Aarons after him . Would not have expected that at the start of the season at all .  He’s come on in leaps and bounds , and still getting better . 
Stay here Todd !!! 

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pockthorpe

[Pugin 601]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

First name on the team sheet for me. Fast feet fast brain.

+ hardest worker in the team, regularly covering 12kms which is phenomenal and on a par with the world's top players in the left flank position. Probably works against Todd, as he keeps him being given a position out wide as Daniel knows that Emi or Onel would not work as hard as Todd.

[lake district canary 4,836]

Not first on the team sheet for me. I've been impressed with his progress, but he still has a long way to go.  There have been too many matches where he doesn't do anything other than make easy passes and often giving the ball away too much.  Ok, he is still learning and in the last few matches before the postponments, he was starting to look more assertive in his play - and of course over the season he has scored goals and on occasions shows flashes of superb skill.  So he has the potential - of course, but he is not the finished article and I can't see him being a first choice player for Liverpool - at least not yet.  He could find himself on the bench or hardly ever getting a game there - the competition for places will be much fiercer at a club like Liverpool.  But if he goes there or to another big club, it will be great to follow his career and see if he can make the grade. 

If he finishes the season strong (assuming the games happen) and helps us stay up, then he will be in huge demand, but then if we stay up, we probably don't need to sell him yet. If we go down, I can see him wanting to move, but will he be in huge demand - maybe not yet and another season with us where he shows he has matured a bit more would benefit him.  He is not as complete a player as Maddison was when he left us, so another season of development might benefit him and get him to the level where like Maddison, he could walk straight into the team of any club he is transferred to. 

 

Edited May 20, 2020 by lake district canary

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

10 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Not first on the team sheet for me. I've been impressed with his progress, but he still has a long way to go.  There have been too many matches where he doesn't do anything other than make easy passes and often giving the ball away too much.  Ok, he is still learning and in the last few matches before the postponments, he was starting to look more assertive in his play - and of course over the season he has scored goals and on occasions shows flashes of superb skill.  So he has the potential - of course, but he is not the finished article and I can't see him being a first choice player for Liverpool - at least not yet.  He could find himself on the bench or hardly ever getting a game there - the competition for places will be much fiercer at a club like Liverpool.  But if he goes there or to another big club, it will be great to follow his career and see if he can make the grade. 

If he finishes the season strong (assuming the games happen) and helps us stay up, then he will be in huge demand, but then if we stay up, we probably don't need to sell him yet. If we go down, I can see him wanting to move, but will he be in huge demand - maybe not yet and another season with us where he shows he has matured a bit more would benefit him.  He is not as complete a player as Maddison was when he left us, so another season of development might benefit him and get him to the level where like Maddison, he could walk straight into the team of any club he is transferred to. 

 

Considering he’s our second highest goalscorer this season, it’s pretty important he’s usually on the team sheet.

[hogesar 10,772]

6 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Considering he’s our second highest goalscorer this season, it’s pretty important he’s usually on the team sheet.

Yeah, he 's pretty vital to how we play and there's a reason scouts from top clubs are watching him. I wonder if these scouts can judge players better than Lakey...

[Pugin 601]

What Lakey needs to appreciate is that within 24 hours of any game finishing, Daniel will have the full game analysis for the team and for individuals. Any individuals making recurring errors will have their good points and bad points reviewed one to one, on the Monday or Tuesday after a weekend game. Suffice to say, Todd ball retention data is tremendously good. Of course he has given the ball away at times - the first 25 minutes at Palace was hard for him but he was strong enough to fight back before the game was over, as an example.

As for Todd looking more assertive in his last few games - as Lakey asserts - the most recent game at Sheff Utd was Todd's worst of the season. He simply ran himself to a standstill at Tottenham on the Tuesday over 120 minutes of play,  and left his legs on that pitch so that he had nothing left at Sheffield and could have been rested.

Isn't it awkward when facts get in the way of opinion?

 

Edited May 21, 2020 by Pugin

[lake district canary 4,836]

 

38 minutes ago, hogesar said:

45 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

Considering he’s our second highest goalscorer this season, it’s pretty important he’s usually on the team sheet.

Yeah, he 's pretty vital to how we play and there's a reason scouts from top clubs are watching him. I wonder if these scouts can judge players better than Lakey...

Or maybe my layman's opinion is well balanced and realistic. There are numerous players who are touted as being super fantastic and destined for the top level and then disappear from the radar.  To be up there and get a regular first team place at a team like Liverpool, he will have to improve in quite a few areas - not giving the ball away cheaply as much as he does for one, being a bit more assertive and pro-active in taking on players for another, which he doesn't do enough of - although as I said in my reasoned critique, in the last couple of games he had started to show more responsibility to make things happen, rather than just look tidy.  

[Flying Dutchman 766]

28 minutes ago, Pugin said:

What Lakey needs to appreciate is that within 24 hours of any game finishing, Daniel will have the full game analysis for the team and for individuals. Any individuals making recurring errors will have their good points and bad points reviewed one to one, on the Monday or Tuesday after a weekend game. Suffice to say, Todd ball retention data is tremendously good. Of course he has given the ball away at times - the first 25 minutes at Palace was hard for him but he was strong enough to fight back before the game was over, as an example.

As for Todd looking more assertive in his last few games - as Lakey asserts - the most recent game at Sheff Utd was Todd's worst of the season. He simply ran himself to a standstill at Tottenham on the Tuesday over 120 minutes of play,  and left his legs on that pitch so that he had nothing left at Sheffield and could have been rested.

Isn't it awkward when facts get in the way of opinion?

 

How dare you come on this forum spouting nonsense like facts and figures. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Harry53 229]

I have enjoyed watching Todd from his Academy matches and always believed in him (not like many who wrote him off 2 years ago).

I just hope we can hold onto him for another season as i so enjoy his everyday and skill. He will get regular games with us but that's not guaranteed at the likes of Liverpool. Having £35m in the bank as compensation for selling him is irreverent. As a fan i want to watch him playing for NCFC

[lake district canary 4,836]

16 minutes ago, Flying Dutchman said:

45 minutes ago, Pugin said:

What Lakey needs to appreciate is that within 24 hours of any game finishing, Daniel will have the full game analysis for the team and for individuals. Any individuals making recurring errors will have their good points and bad points reviewed one to one, on the Monday or Tuesday after a weekend game. Suffice to say, Todd ball retention data is tremendously good. Of course he has given the ball away at times - the first 25 minutes at Palace was hard for him but he was strong enough to fight back before the game was over, as an example.

As for Todd looking more assertive in his last few games - as Lakey asserts - the most recent game at Sheff Utd was Todd's worst of the season. He simply ran himself to a standstill at Tottenham on the Tuesday over 120 minutes of play,  and left his legs on that pitch so that he had nothing left at Sheffield and could have been rested.

Isn't it awkward when facts get in the way of opinion?

How dare you come on this forum spouting nonsense like facts and figures. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Where are the facts and figures?  I can't see any, just opinions.

There is a corrobative factor to my views which are from DF who about three weeks before the stoppage said plainly that what was needed was certain players had to step up and take more responsibility on the pitch. I can't remember his exact words, but it was plain at the time that his comments were aimed at the likes of Todd and Emi.  Todd responded - and yada yada, yes he was tired against Sheff Utd, but he responded to Farke's words in those last few games and that is to his credit.

Todd has potential and big clubs may want him - but my point was that he would not walk straight into a top club's first team as it stands.  We've seen so many players move up a level and either not make the grade or disappear into the reserves - it took Redmond two or three years before he really cemented his place at Southampton for instance. Todd will likely make it to the top, but lets not pretend he is ready for the likes of a cast iron first team place at a club like Liverpool - if he goes there he will be in a squad where he will be up against players in his position who are better than him - at least to start with. 

Imo he needs games - and like Maddison recognised - you need to play first team football, not spend your time fannying around with other young players in training and lesser cup competitions hoping to make your mark.

 

[Pugin 601]

(I love you Lakey but...) you do come out with some tosh.

No one could believe that Todd could 'walk into' Jurgen Klopp's first team. No one has suggested that. Anywhere. But the fact remains that Todd has scored goals against top teams this season and of the players in Klopp's squad in his position, Oxlade-Chamberlain has come back well but doesn't score goals, and Adam Llanana is I believe being released. So logically, Todd should be in Liverpool's thoughts.

But he won't go to Liverpool at this stage of his career as it would be too much of a risk that he would be sitting on the bench for who knows how long. Don't forget Todd missed a year of his development with a back problem, and was so frustrated two years ago that he pushed for a move to a loan club just to get games. Like all youngsters he wants to be out on the pitch, not sitting watching.

Elsewhere you have said that you want to see Todd running at people with the ball. Fine. We would all enjoy that. But it's not the way Daniel Farke prefers to see the game played. He loves his touch, pass and move, touch, pass, move, and repeat. Todd has obviously got a bit of licence, but he only gets away with it because he does it so well!

[king canary 8,763]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Or maybe my layman's opinion is well balanced and realistic.

Your continuing crusade against Snodgrass suggests well balanced and realistic aren't exactly your forte.

Cantwell seems to be another who you've taken against and thus will ignore any evidence to the contrary in order to back up your pre-conceived perception of him.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

I used to complain about Hoolahan for losing the ball too much. It took time for me to realise that to create, to make space or positions or runs on the best midfielders and defenders in the country takes timing and trickery, and doesn't always come off. The same fans who worship Hoolahan on here write Todd off at will, with more than a few token comments about his gloves, hairstyle etc. None of that has anything to do with his footballing ability, he's been one of our most creative and successful assets this season and if other players around him had stepped up in the same way as he has we'd be clear of the relegation zone with breathing room to spare.

I hope we stay up and keep him, or go down and keep him. He's a major asset to the way we play and quite frankly, one of the few players in that team at present that carry a goal threat, which is exactly what we need if we're going to win games, get points and stay up.

[hogesar 10,772]

3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

 

Or maybe my layman's opinion is well balanced and realistic. There are numerous players who are touted as being super fantastic and destined for the top level and then disappear from the radar.  To be up there and get a regular first team place at a team like Liverpool, he will have to improve in quite a few areas - not giving the ball away cheaply as much as he does for one, being a bit more assertive and pro-active in taking on players for another, which he doesn't do enough of - although as I said in my reasoned critique, in the last couple of games he had started to show more responsibility to make things happen, rather than just look tidy.  

So he shouldn't give the ball away cheaply...

But he should take more responsibility to make things happen...

Rather than just looking tidy...

Talk about contradicting yourself!

By the way, you don't tend to get 6 goals and 2 assists in the prem during your first season in a bottom of the league team by 'just looking tidy'

[king canary 8,763]

4 minutes ago, hogesar said:

By the way, you don't tend to get 6 goals and 2 assists in the prem during your first season in a bottom of the league team by 'just looking tidy'

Especially when nobody else apart from Pukki has scored more than one league goal.

If he just 'looks tidy' then I dread to think what the others are...

[lake district canary 4,836]

58 minutes ago, king canary said:

Your continuing crusade against Snodgrass suggests well balanced and realistic aren't exactly your forte.

Cantwell seems to be another who you've taken against and thus will ignore any evidence to the contrary in order to back up your pre-conceived perception of him.

I think the facts surrounding Snodgrass throughout his career back my opinions of him up pretty well - unless he has a manager that fawns over him and allows him to think he is the main man, often at the expense of the team. 

As for Todd, I've lost count of the times I've praised him for his skill, his work rate, his development and desire, so how that makes it me being "against him" I don't know. Are we now not allowed to critisise players or speak about their strengths and weaknesses rationally any more?   He is not the complete player yet, certainly not as complete a player as Maddison was when he left us - and he only went to Leicester, who although are a much bigger club than they used to be, are not in the realms of a Liverpool or Man City. 

 

[hogesar 10,772]

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think the facts surrounding Snodgrass throughout his career back my opinions of him up pretty well - unless he has a manager that fawns over him and allows him to think he is the main man, often at the expense of the team. 

Yeah, I guess Snodgrass' 5 assists and 5 goals in 17 prem starts this season has really f*cked off West Ham.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Hasn’t Snodgrass been regularly picked by numerous Premier League managers since he left us? Nah, he must be s hite, LDC from his armchair says so.

[king canary 8,763]

21 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think the facts surrounding Snodgrass throughout his career back my opinions of him up pretty well - unless he has a manager that fawns over him and allows him to think he is the main man, often at the expense of the team. 

Since he left us he's played 92 games in the Premier League and scored 14 goals. I'm really not sure how you think this backs up your opinion of him.

22 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

As for Todd, I've lost count of the times I've praised him for his skill, his work rate, his development and desire, so how that makes it me being "against him" I don't know. Are we now not allowed to critisise players or speak about their strengths and weaknesses rationally any more?  

Of course you are- but people keep pointing out your crtiques of him aren't actually that rational. You criticise him for a lack of end product despite him having more goals and taking more shots a game than anyone not called Pukki and playing more key passes than anyone not named Buendia. Previously you criticised him for not crossing it more, despite the fact that nobody in a Farke team crosses it very much as it isn't part of our game plan. 

Put simply, your view of him doesn't really stack up with both what others see on the pitch or the stats.

26 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

He is not the complete player yet

Nobody claims he is.

[lake district canary 4,836]

Don't you just love "experts" who think only their opinions matter especially when their "facts" are no more than just opinions. For the record, you can have a player score ten goals, but if the team loses and is relegated easily, then what value were their goals - especially if their play sometimes ended up by costing a goal  or losing a match?   

Snodgrass in particular, frequently held on to the ball too long, giving it away and leading to pressure the other end and goals against. If you want to check his whole record, from his time at Leeds to the present day, he had good spells at all clubs, but within that quite often the teams struggled to achieve very much.

Now I think Todd is a far better prospect than Snodgrass, better in every way, but the same rules apply to every player.  Yep, a player can go ahead and score goals, but if the team loses or gets relegated, then regardless of those goals, part of the reason is that player if he was regularly in that team - and if even in one game a mistake or silly play cost a goal and three points, then that  negates at least some of the effect of scoring goals. The team is what is important. That was always my complaint against Josh - could score occasionally, but did not help the team work much in an important area of the field.  A good player will learn and adapt and I think Josh has improved in his team play, but it has taken him a while. 

I stress I am not comparing Tood to these players, he is developing well and I think he will be great in a year or two, but for his sake he needs to keep his feet on the ground. The skills he shows in the video in the op are brilliant, but as someone else said, it doesn't show anything other than the good stuff. You could equally make a video of all his mistakes and make him look a right duffer! 

Someone said earlier in the thread that creative players sometimes need to be allowed to make mistakes - and that is true, but the art of making a mistake is doing it in a place where it doesn't affect the team - and that is a skill that young players have to learn - and Todd is still learning.

 

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Don't you just love "experts" who think only their opinions matter especially when their "facts" are no more than just opinions. For the record, you can have a player score ten goals, but if the team loses and is relegated easily, then what value were their goals - especially if their play sometimes ended up by costing a goal  or losing a match?   

Snodgrass in particular, frequently held on to the ball too long, giving it away and leading to pressure the other end and goals against. If you want to check his whole record, from his time at Leeds to the present day, he had good spells at all clubs, but within that quite often the teams struggled to achieve very much.

Now I think Todd is a far better prospect than Snodgrass, better in every way, but the same rules apply to every player.  Yep, a player can go ahead and score goals, but if the team loses or gets relegated, then regardless of those goals, part of the reason is that player if he was regularly in that team - and if even in one game a mistake or silly play cost a goal and three points, then that  negates at least some of the effect of scoring goals. The team is what is important. That was always my complaint against Josh - could score occasionally, but did not help the team work much in an important area of the field.  A good player will learn and adapt and I think Josh has improved in his team play, but it has taken him a while. 

I stress I am not comparing Tood to these players, he is developing well and I think he will be great in a year or two, but for his sake he needs to keep his feet on the ground. The skills he shows in the video in the op are brilliant, but as someone else said, it doesn't show anything other than the good stuff. You could equally make a video of all his mistakes and make him look a right duffer! 

Someone said earlier in the thread that creative players sometimes need to be allowed to make mistakes - and that is true, but the art of making a mistake is doing it in a place where it doesn't affect the team - and that is a skill that young players have to learn - and Todd is still learning.

 

That’s a nonsense statement - if a player has a good season, then it is still a good season regardless of any relegation. It’s like suggesting a player’s goals are pointless if a team loses. There’s no doubt scouts looking at Cantwell are noting he’s performed well and any potential relegation will be irrelevant. There are countless players that have been relegated whilst still performing well and been snapped up by top flight clubs and have had long careers in the Premier League.

I’m finding your contrary and picky view of Todd quite odd - all the “facts” show he has without doubt been one of our best, and at times, most vital, players this year. He has 6 goals. A very impressive tally. Buendia has nil, plays in the same sort of position and is often lauded as one of the best attacking players in the bottom half of the Premier League.

What‘s happened to your overly positive nature, when all you can do is gripe at Cantwell?

PS, your 6 year grudge/infatuation with Snodgrass is pretty weird.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Hoola Han Solo

[lake district canary 4,836]

4 minutes ago, Hoola Han Solo said:

What‘s happened to your overly positive nature, when all you can do is gripe at Cantwell?

PS, your 6 year grudge/infatuation with Snodgrass is pretty weird.

FFS it's a football forum where people express views.  I'm not griping at a player either, I'm simply saying what I have seen and what I have picked up from what the manager says - and if you listen to Daniel carefully, he gives very clear messages about players and what they need to do - and it is often clear who he is talking about....but I'm sorry if I've offended any delicate Norwich fans who may have been traumatised to see criticism of one of our players.

As for Snodgrass, he was likewise a player who some people could not bear to see criticised, but like it or not any player can look good on the face of it - but at the same time have an effect on a team that is not necessarily positive.  Young players can make costly mistakes because they are young - and they have to learn, older players, such as Snoddy, ought to know better and if they haven't learned by the time they are 26 or 27, there isn't much chance of them changing.  Todd needs to develop and improve and he would presumably agree with that, he has everything going for him in that way, as long as he keeps his feet on the ground.