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yellow_belly

Furlough & relegation

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Posted (edited)

 

 

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ncfc (R)

Newcastle (R)

Bournemouth (R)

Spurs (R)

Edited by yellow_belly

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The club in taking this action is morally corrupt and deserves the brickbats that will come its way.  This has come from the top which needs to backtrack on this idea.  Delia has been repaid the millions initially loaned she ought to ensure City staff receive their salaries without recourse to the nations finances.  Greedy socialism at work no moral compass here.

We should be better than this!

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We're a self-funding Community Club.....Now dig deep fellow devout disciples.....dig deep.....

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Posted (edited)

Interesting take. I can think of loads of other less than moral stances taken by clubs over many years. I can also think of decisions being made right now by big business during this crisis. Greed? Looking after staff? Being sustainable? Tax revenues issues? Did Sunak state which companies should not be doing this?  Wasn't it about all employers? I see British Airways has? Does one not fly on their airline again? I see Argos staff still work where the CEO earning 3.9m a year decides they are essential. It's complex.

I suppose though you've had some good decades supporting the club. It's still a shame that this one issue is ending that. I would wait to see myself what players and their union might suggest first. It's not great I realise that. But it's a far broader and more complex as an issue which certainly I have incomplete knowledge about. Try contacting the club ...e.g. Ben K. They are accessible.

Edited by sonyc
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I think two separate issues are getting muddled up here.

The club has relatively short term contracts with the players. Break the contracts unilaterally and the players could walk.

The club also has many direct employees - no different to the shut-down car industry or retail.

As a business it has to do what it can to protect the business - given it currently has and for the foreseeable future zero gate receipts etc and even questions over future TV monies. Many clubs as we know are actually or could rapidly be in serious financial trouble. 

Hopefully he players etc will separately agree to large 50% cuts/deferments else the opprobrium should be theirs

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12 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I think two separate issues are getting muddled up here.

The club has relatively short term contracts with the players. Break the contracts unilaterally and the players could walk.

The club also has many direct employees - no different to the shut-down car industry or retail.

As a business it has to do what it can to protect the business - given it currently has and for the foreseeable future zero gate receipts etc and even questions over future TV monies. Many clubs as we know are actually or could rapidly be in serious financial trouble. 

Hopefully he players etc will separately agree to large 50% cuts/deferments else the opprobrium should be theirs

My first reaction is the same - if we arbitrarily fail to honour the contracts that players have, my guess is that we would be in breach of contract and they would be able to leave on a free if they chose to do so. 

If I were in charge, I'm not sure that I would want to risk losing Godfrey, Buendia, Lewis, Aarons et all on a free just to make a questionable point. A voluntary agreement would be better as I understand has been the case elsewhere?

With regard to furloughing itself, the FT is reporting that half of companies are likely to adopt this scheme.

https://www.ft.com/content/8e2c0615-f2af-4885-a9bf-78deeb94bc80

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, yellow_belly said:

Mr Pickle, 

 

I think this says a lot about your morals, or lack of them.

You come across as a twit. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/sport/amp/football/52120578

My morals are fine thank you.  You are wholly missing the point, mixing personal and business - maybe deliberately or maybe through ignorance.  
The club taking advantage of a scheme SET UP BY GOVT FOR ALL TO USE doesn’t come close to being on a par with clubs coming close to committing fraud to skirt FFP rules, for example.

It really is pretty simple - imo people are mixing different issues and coming up with the wrong answer.

Edited by Branston Pickle

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Whether this is a WUM or not, the fact remains this is not a situation where we want to hear about player's contracts and legalities. Those dead and those about to have no recourse to law. And neither do the staff working in the NHS or our supermarkets.

Any player, and I don't care if its Todd or Max, who quotes contract obligations at this time or vice versa, should the club do the same, is very short on morals and humanity.

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If only 4 PL clubs end up using the furlough scheme I'll be absolutely gobsmacked. I expect the vast majority of them to use the scheme and/or make a lot of redundancies. 

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We must also not forget that through the employees contribution of the tax on the players salaries Norwich City are contributing significantly to the income received by the government and thus I feel that they are very much within their rights to make use of this scheme.

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Posted (edited)

The endgame in all this may well be that clubs back out of using thus scheme due to the PR - it doesn’t mean they weren’t right to pursue it though, as they were 100% entitied to. 

The players are a wholly different thing.  One thing that people do need to remember/realise is that these are guys making a living...but there are times when if you are paid megabucks that you need to show willing and this is one of those.  Others have mentioned the vast tax take that players give, but that’s a separate thing (though govt should be careful complaining too much about them on that front).

Edited by Branston Pickle

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Delia talks about socialism but is taking money from society to do this.

Eh? That literally is socialism.

Or do you advocate socialism sponsored by Nestle. I don't get it? 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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The OP could write to the club and suggest all non-playing staff should be dismissed. Wouldn't go down well with those staff members' families but at least the OP could carry on supporting his beloved club!

Or he may reflect on the differing employment contracts in place. The first responsibility is to those permanent members of staff (cleaners, ticketing office etc) and to ensure they are protected from redundancy. The club has acted, indeed is making up the 80% to 100%. Given, only two seasons ago the club were close to going out of business and the same reason has been given why we have not overspent on transfer fees, means this decision is consistent. The club is trying to protect itself. It is simply one of the first to do so. 

And speaking of morals, maybe we don't like watching multi millionaires playing football for our club, but that is the ridiculous marketplace we have, whether we like it or not.

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1 hour ago, The Walking Man said:

If only 4 PL clubs end up using the furlough scheme I'll be absolutely gobsmacked. I expect the vast majority of them to use the scheme and/or make a lot of redundancies. 

That's better than the leagues below, where Swansea are making redundancies and Barnet have layed off all non-playing staff

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I love the fact the biggest critics of our immoral approach to furloughing staff seem to coincide with being the same people who'd welcome a multi-billionaire with a dodgy business background, no ethics and a history of using child-slavery to make their fortune.

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Rule Number One.....Do not have the sheer audacity to question or criticise lovely NCFC in any way, shape or form......

Rule Number Two.....As above.......

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10 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Rule Number One.....Do not have the sheer audacity to question or criticise lovely NCFC in any way, shape or form......

Rule Number Two.....As above.......

Rule Number One..... it's an internet message board. You've every right to express your opinion - others have every right to disagree with you.  Very simple....... but apparently a bit too complicated for you...........

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1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Rule Number One..... it's an internet message board. You've every right to express your opinion - others have every right to disagree with you.  Very simple....... but apparently a bit too complicated for you...........

As you have proved my point by your rapid reaction......maybe you also find it complicated.....too?

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2 hours ago, Matt Juler said:

We must also not forget that through the employees contribution of the tax on the players salaries Norwich City are contributing significantly to the income received by the government and thus I feel that they are very much within their rights to make use of this scheme.

If the idle rich earned less and didn't pay as much tax tax someone else would earn more and pay more tax. 

  Perhaps then we would have a fairer and more equal society where your pay and tax contribution better reflected your worth to the health and happiness of society.

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4 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

As you have proved my point by your rapid reaction......maybe you also find it complicated.....too?

I'm sure that makes sense in your own head................

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1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I love the fact the biggest critics of our immoral approach to furloughing staff seem to coincide with being the same people who'd welcome a multi-billionaire with a dodgy business background, no ethics and a history of using child-slavery to make their fortune.

...but what do you actually thing about what the club are/are not doing in regard to this matter? Do you have an opinion?

I've got no issue with them using the scheme as long as the high earners at the club also do their bit.

OTBC

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1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I'm sure that makes sense in your own head................

No flies on you.....

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5 hours ago, yellow_belly said:

Hopefully we will be relegated today at the Premier League meeting.

No Norwich fan I know would ever say that.

I might not be in total agreement with the current situation (which hopefully will change) but only a fool would wish that on our club. If that did happen, the first to suffer (through redundancy) would be those on lower wages at the club; the very people who are a big part of what this discussion is all about. Strange that you appear to have completely missed that.

OTBC

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Posted (edited)

A wind up merchant I reckon. Yet it's been worth the debate to look more sides of the argument. You sometimes need contrary views to help with perspective too.

Edited by sonyc

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