Corona Virus main thread

[Aggy 755]

12 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

So the Govt is now introducing quarantine hotels for people from countries like South Africa plus 2 tests for people who arrive from anywhere plus harsher penalties for people who eg lie about where they’ve come from up to 10 years in prison.

 

Personally I think this is absolutely right, to get life back to normal we need to control people coming in much more strictly to stop variants taking root here.

 

we can’t simply shut our borders because we import most of our food, medicines and other goods we use day to day.

 

Could we shut down all other travel? Anyone who thinks this is realistic should watch the grilling given to the Govt minister this morning on the news about the above proposals (which stop well short of actually shutting our borders) and the complaints from the travel industry which the news media simply repeat verbatim.

 

I was disappointed the BBC didn’t reflect the other side of the argument ie how important it is to impose controls and prevent new variants coming in while our vaccine programme is rolled out.

Seems sensible in the short term.
 

What we need to be careful about though medium term (if we want any continuing compliance with covid restrictions) is ending up in a position where rich vaccinated 65 year olds are swanning off on holiday whilst nobody else can. Whether that’s because we go down a vaccine passport route or because nobody can afford a £1500 quarantine hotel stay on top of a holiday. I was glad they’ve come out and said there are no plans for a vaccine passport - no chance youngsters and unvaccinated middle aged people (with minimal risk from covid) are going to comply with covid restrictions if they see elder people being given more freedoms than they are permitted.

 

[Well b back 3,208]

As I mentioned Countries now have to consider what to do with their AstraZeneca vaccine where it is not required. I see ‘ several countries ‘ have offered to buy their 1.5 million doses, although they may look to swap it. This batch will need to be used by April. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-56009170

As the one thing holding us ( and the world ) back is supply, not delivery into arms and with a booster available in August this would speed our vaccinations up and prepare our plants to manufacture the boosters. Wether this batch is available outside WHO of course depends on their regulatory decision, which I still expect to go in favour of AstraZeneca being authorised.

 

[Barbe bleu 826]

51 minutes ago, Well b back said:

As I mentioned Countries now have to consider what to do with their AstraZeneca vaccine where it is not required. I see ‘ several countries ‘ have offered to buy their 1.5 million doses, although they may look to swap it. This batch will need to be used by April. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-56009170

As the one thing holding us ( and the world ) back is supply, not delivery into arms and with a booster available in August this would speed our vaccinations up and prepare our plants to manufacture the boosters. Wether this batch is available outside WHO of course depends on their regulatory decision, which I still expect to go in favour of AstraZeneca being authorised.

 

I think SA would be foolish to not use what they have.   22% is still better than 0% and there is every chance it still prevents the worst of the effects. There is also no guarantee that other vaccines based on the original genome will prove to be materially better outside of very limited studies with ridiculously low confidence intervals.

That said, from a worldwide perspective it might be better for SA to give their stocks to places without this mutation. I'm sure we'll find them useful....

Edited February 10, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[SHRIMPER 328]

tRump one year ago today. 464.000 dead today in the USA.

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by SHRIMPER

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

20 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Yes...this whole WHO visit to China was always going to be a complete waste of time, a non event. What point there was visting the food market there more than a year after the original outbreak there is a mystery. As for China itself, of course they will to time indefinite repeat their line of it wasnt their fault or the virus never originated there. Its a continual varbatim Trump type nonsense line similar to his repeated a million times "elections were a fraud". Of course the one man Trump was easily proven wrong by the democratic voting machine of America...but the WHO changing China's take on things is vastly different.

It was Trump who did the right thing and stopped supporting WHO, but this fact will be overlooked as Biden has reinstated ties to WHO and China gets away Scot free. This is what happens when a useless old fool with links to the Commies gets to be President. The truth is covered up and the people are treated like idiots. 

[Barbe bleu 826]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

The 10-year prison threat does seem over-the-top but is probably a necessary corrective after they completely undermined the whole idea of abiding by lockdown restrictions from the very beginning when they gave carte blanche to Dominic Cummings to breach the regulations at will.

I dont think ten years is over the top.  A while ago I would have agreed but a while ago someone coming into the country with the disease wouldn’t necessarily have been the problem it now is.

It's come at a massive price but we are now in a good place.  It is though a very fragile place.  With question marks over all vaccines and everyone keen to open up new variants brought in by people thinking they are being  clever could kill thousands.  

 

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

So the Govt is now introducing quarantine hotels for people from countries like South Africa plus 2 tests for people who arrive from anywhere plus harsher penalties for people who eg lie about where they’ve come from up to 10 years in prison.

 

Personally I think this is absolutely right, to get life back to normal we need to control people coming in much more strictly to stop variants taking root here.

 

we can’t simply shut our borders because we import most of our food, medicines and other goods we use day to day.

 

Could we shut down all other travel? Anyone who thinks this is realistic should watch the grilling given to the Govt minister this morning on the news about the above proposals (which stop well short of actually shutting our borders) and the complaints from the travel industry which the news media simply repeat verbatim.

 

I was disappointed the BBC didn’t reflect the other side of the argument ie how important it is to impose controls and prevent new variants coming in while our vaccine programme is rolled out.

I think we should have closed our borders for travel from the outset and they shouldn't have reopened yet.

Maybe the chaos, deaths and money they would have saved could have gone to help the travel industry.

There is always a second wave with a pandemic and the summer led to a lemmings like rush to go to the Canaries etc.

It was irresponsible to allow it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

It was Trump who did the right thing and stopped supporting WHO, but this fact will be overlooked as Biden has reinstated ties to WHO and China gets away Scot free. This is what happens when a useless old fool with links to the Commies gets to be President. The truth is covered up and the people are treated like idiots. 

Its important to continue in the WHO until an alternative comes along. And your mate Trump denied there was a virus so to blame the WHO for not telling him while denying it existed shows why the world needs left minded people in charge than right wing greedy idiots.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

6 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think ten years is over the top.  A while ago I would have agreed but a while ago someone coming into the country with the disease wouldn’t necessarily have been the problem it now is.

It's come at a massive price but we are now in a good place.  It is though a very fragile place.  With question marks over all vaccines and everyone keen to open up new variants brought in by people thinking they are being  clever could kill thousands.  

 

 

So why let them in?

[ricardo 7,395]

No country is immune from mistakes

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/10/japan-pfizer-vaccine-doses-wrong-syringes

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

17 hours ago, horsefly said:

So Mr Hancock should we applaud the NHS or follow the example of your personal £32, 000 donor and slag them off?

https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-calls-for-health-secretary-to-pay-back-donations-after-disgraceful-attack-on-nhs-heroes/

Labour is demanding that Matt Hancock condemns a report published by the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) and pay back the donations he has received from the organisation’s Chair. The report argues that there is “no rational basis” for the public support NHS staff are receiving, “no reason” to be grateful for the NHS and criticising the “false narrative” that the NHS has done an amazing job during the pandemic.

When we have a public inquiry into the covid pandemic it has to be open and fair. That means anything can be criticised, even the NHS. Let's not shutdown debate even before it begins otherwise we will never learn. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Just now, Rock The Boat said:

When we have a public inquiry into the covid pandemic it has to be open and fair. That means anything can be criticised, even the NHS. Let's not shutdown debate even before it begins otherwise we will never learn. 

The IEA has no reason to criticise the NHS before that public inquiry.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its important to continue in the WHO until an alternative comes along. And your mate Trump denied there was a virus so to blame the WHO for not telling him while denying it existed shows why the world needs left minded people in charge than right wing greedy idiots.

Both China and WHO initially denied there was a virus. The Chinese even arrested the whistleblower who eventually died of the virus. They both went on to deny there was a pandemic. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

The IEA has no reason to criticise the NHS before that public inquiry.

On the contrary, they have a duty to speak out. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Both China and WHO initially denied there was a virus. The Chinese even arrested the whistleblower who eventually died of the virus. They both went on to deny there was a pandemic. 

The WHO were pathetic in that they fell for the lies of the Chinese leaders. But if that was the only data they had then they could hardly refute the suspicions without evidence.

Just as Trump didn't tell the US that it was deadly.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

On the contrary, they have a duty to speak out. 

What? That the public are wrong to cherish the NHS.

So we are expected to agree with a bunch on academics and bankers who probably go private.

[horsefly 4,300]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

When we have a public inquiry into the covid pandemic it has to be open and fair. That means anything can be criticised, even the NHS. Let's not shutdown debate even before it begins otherwise we will never learn. 

Do your research. The IEA has ALWAYS been ideologically anti- NHS and consistently pushes for privatisation. And are you really suggesting we don't already have enough evidence in showing what an incredible job NHS staff are doing? I suggest you watch the news a bit more and the many documentaries and reports showing them in action saving lives and administering incredible levels of care. Many of those staff have paid with their lives for their dedication to duty, and many others are off ill suffering from long covid. God knows how many will be dealing with PTSD after witnessing the carnage Covid has wrecked on their wards. That you would begrudge them any gratitude right now for their efforts is entirely to be expected from someone of your egregious character.

[Barbe bleu 826]

13 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

So why let them in?

I think we do need to see if more countries should be red listed. 

 I dont think that closing borders completely for a year would have been possible, desirable or practical but there is a big difference between one more infection among hundreds of thousands and introducing the virus that can evade our vaccines.

 

 

[Herman 9,768]

5 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

On the contrary, they have a duty to speak out. 

First they can tell us who actually funds them. A think tank that has so much to say about the running the country should be able to tell who they are speaking on behalf of. 

[horsefly 4,300]

4 minutes ago, Herman said:

First they can tell us who actually funds them. A think tank that has so much to say about the running the country should be able to tell who they are speaking on behalf of. 

It's a right-wing think tank ideologically opposed to the NHS and pro privatisation.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 minutes ago, Herman said:

First they can tell us who actually funds them. A think tank that has so much to say about the running the country should be able to tell who they are speaking on behalf of. 

George Soros, I expect. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

11 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

What? That the public are wrong to cherish the NHS.

So we are expected to agree with a bunch on academics and bankers who probably go private.

Yes, having experienced the health systems in many countries, including third world, I would put the NHS at the bottom of the list from a user pont of view. 

Some areas like research or teaching are excellent, in other areas such as care and outcomes they are abysmal. 

It's actually dangerous even to enter a hospital in the UK

[horsefly 4,300]

3 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yes, having experienced the health systems in many countries, including third world, I would put the NHS at the bottom of the list from a user pont of view. 

Some areas like research or teaching are excellent, in other areas such as care and outcomes they are abysmal. 

It's actually dangerous even to enter a hospital in the UK

Condemned by his own blatant stupidity. Nothing more needs to be said.

[horsefly 4,300]

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world

[Well b back 3,208]

Some good news, The World Health Organisation likely to approve the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine, with caveats on ongoing trials and research. Once approved the Serum Institute of India will up their production even further from 10,000 doses a minute.

[dj11 377]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Yes, having experienced the health systems in many countries, including third world, I would put the NHS at the bottom of the list from a user pont of view. 

Some areas like research or teaching are excellent, in other areas such as care and outcomes they are abysmal. 

It's actually dangerous even to enter a hospital in the UK

I really think you live in a fantasy world, and I don't believe for a second that you have experienced health systems in many countries, including third world. You remind me of Geoff Maltby from the Benidorm series.

[Herman 9,768]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

It's a right-wing think tank ideologically opposed to the NHS and pro privatisation.

It's probably just a lobby group for Big Medicine.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

Condemned by his own blatant stupidity. Nothing more needs to be said.

You're the idiot. Plenty of people have gone into hospital for various reasons and picked up the corona virus when they were there.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

10 minutes ago, dj11 said:

I really think you live in a fantasy world, and I don't believe for a second that you have experienced health systems in many countries, including third world. You remind me of Geoff Maltby from the Benidorm series.

I'm not asking anyone to believe me, I'm just putting it out there and you can choose what you want to believe or not.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

One month ago, the UK was on 4% in this chart, now up to 13%. A vaccine rollout success story led by Kate Bingham, medical entrepreneur. Her success must be due to her being married to a Conservative MP as that was the only issue concerning posters at the time of her appointment. Looking at you, Herman.