Corona Virus main thread

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Hasn't the government already ruled out Vaccine passports - at least until everybody has been offered a vaccine (else there would be rightful outrage from our younger less vulnerable put upon cohorts).

I really don't see much if any foreign travel this year. - and then only if other countries would accept us.

By the way if you go to Wuhan - do take in the Yellow Crane Tower  - a little touristy in a Chinese manner.

Mrs KG have decided the only travel, UK and foreign will be NZ in December for her Mum's 90th.

We are lucky, as are Norfolk people that they have a great coastline and if the weather is fair there is no need to risk travel. And I must admit there is no desire to at the moment.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

1 minute ago, A Load of Squit said:

Visit Wales, they deserve some recognition for the excellent job they've done.

Initially criticised for not being the quickest off the mark they've proven that you don't have to be a persistent front runner to beat the others.

 

 

 

 

 

We agree - it's the old hare and tortoise argument. Solid steady progress, bumps in the road accepted, but don't bet on going abroad this summer (well out of Norfolk anyway) unless you want to stay in a foreign quarantine hotel as well 😉

 

[Aggy 755]

10 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Well surely the Government now has the opportunity to offer the "normal" flu jab free to all citizens. It is a great moment in time for Governments to evaluate their spending and realise that an invisible enemy has done so much damage to humanity and the economy and that it is now time to abandon some projects and try to ensure that should this happen again, we will be as ready as possible.

No idea if it has the opportunity to do so - capacity etc? Don’t know. We don’t get it right all the time anyway, so even if we do vaccinate everyone with the normal flu jab we could still have tens of thousands dying in a number of years - because flu mutates so much (quicker than covid) that it often isn’t what we’ve vaccinated against. And as you can’t vaccinate 65m people in one go there’s always going to be windows for it to continue to mutate. That’s the point really - always a risk of it happening, so measures against it need to be proportionate - or we need to never leave the house again. 

 

As to changing projects I don’t know what you’re referring to. 
 

Edit: ps far better I would suggest to spend money on building more hospitals and employing more nurses than giving vaccines to healthy young people who probably don’t need it (other than to possibly stop the spread to protect more elderly people).

Edited February 12, 2021 by Aggy

[paul moy 235]

3 minutes ago, Aggy said:

No idea if it has the opportunity to do so - capacity etc? Don’t know. We don’t get it right all the time anyway, so even if we do vaccinate everyone with the normal flu jab we could still have tens of thousands dying in a number of years - because flu mutates so much (quicker than covid) that it often isn’t what we’ve vaccinated against. And as you can’t vaccinate 65m people in one go there’s always going to be windows for it to continue to mutate. That’s the point really - always a risk of it happening, so measures against it need to be proportionate - or we need to never leave the house again. 

 

As to changing projects I don’t know what you’re referring to. 

Booster jabs will be available in the Autumn for the old and vulnerable to take care of mutations, just as they currently are for the flu. 

I was listening to a discussion on Five Live whereby it was suggested that covid and flu vaccines could be combined in one jab thus reducing logistic issues.

Edited February 12, 2021 by paul moy

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

-

Edited February 12, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[ricardo 7,384]

 

[sonyc 5,511]

7 minutes ago, ricardo said:

 

Maybe Ferguson's confidence with his latest projections might hold some hope for the UK too then.

Good to read.

And over 65s will be responding to their call for vaccination next week. 

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

2 hours ago, Aggy said:

No idea if it has the opportunity to do so - capacity etc? Don’t know. We don’t get it right all the time anyway, so even if we do vaccinate everyone with the normal flu jab we could still have tens of thousands dying in a number of years - because flu mutates so much (quicker than covid) that it often isn’t what we’ve vaccinated against. And as you can’t vaccinate 65m people in one go there’s always going to be windows for it to continue to mutate. That’s the point really - always a risk of it happening, so measures against it need to be proportionate - or we need to never leave the house again. 

 

As to changing projects I don’t know what you’re referring to. 
 

Edit: ps far better I would suggest to spend money on building more hospitals and employing more nurses than giving vaccines to healthy young people who probably don’t need it (other than to possibly stop the spread to protect more elderly people).

I agree it needs to be proportionate but at the same time if we don't bother vaccinating the under 50s and start to reopen society, we'll have a lot of virus cases in the population coming up against a lot of people who have been vaccinated, which really risks finding a mutation of the virus that can resist the vaccine.  If we keep pressing on with the vaccine process over the next few months so a lot of under 50s are covered, we should then reach the herd immunity level which means virus numbers drop away and then the risks become much lower all round.

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Visit Wales, they deserve some recognition for the excellent job they've done.

Initially criticised for not being the quickest off the mark they've proven that you don't have to be a persistent front runner to beat the others.

 

 

 

 

 

Certainly visit Wales, a most beautiful part of the world.

Drakeford was slaughtered for his announcement that Wales had "deliberately slowed things down so that staff weren't standing around" , that was the criticism they faced, and he just about managed to recover his position by accelerating the vaccination program after that. 

Had he gone flat out from the start Wales would have been well ahead of the rest of the UK by now.

 

[Van wink 2,994]

19 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Maybe Ferguson's confidence with his latest projections might hold some hope for the UK too then.

Good to read.

And over 65s will be responding to their call for vaccination next week. 

Yep, its encouraging stuff.

[SteveN8458 64]

4 hours ago, ricardo said:

Good news but remember its three weeks before it kicks in👍

Thanks Ricardo.

Just heard from my daughter, she has had the same text, and she is much younger than me but with her own medical issues.

[SteveN8458 64]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Is there a signal? A sudden jolt of the inner organs? Is the effect age dependent?

 

sorry missread your post re: A sudden jolt of the organs !!!! Ohh matron

[ricardo 7,384]

National

15144 - 758

Local

 

Another half million day

and over 14 million total

[Herman 9,756]

Are we anywhere near group 10 yet?

[Essjayess 307]

43 minutes ago, ricardo said:

National

15144 - 758

Local

 

Another half million day

and over 14 million total

City Centre West bucking the trend with 60% increase in daily positives in last week. Back into the red zone, lets hope its short lived.

[ricardo 7,384]

31 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

City Centre West bucking the trend with 60% increase in daily positives in last week. Back into the red zone, lets hope its short lived.

Low numbers so ups and downs will continue for a while.

[ricardo 7,384]

1 hour ago, Herman said:

Are we anywhere near group 10 yet?

Guy Fawkes night for you.

[Aggy 755]

2 hours ago, It's Character Forming said:

I agree it needs to be proportionate but at the same time if we don't bother vaccinating the under 50s and start to reopen society, we'll have a lot of virus cases in the population coming up against a lot of people who have been vaccinated, which really risks finding a mutation of the virus that can resist the vaccine.  If we keep pressing on with the vaccine process over the next few months so a lot of under 50s are covered, we should then reach the herd immunity level which means virus numbers drop away and then the risks become much lower all round.

I haven’t suggested we don’t bother vaccinating the under 50s. If we can guarantee everyone will have had two jabs by the end of March, then great. Realistically though, the majority of healthy under 40s aren’t going to be vaccinated until late summer at the earliest. And if you haven’t been vaccinated by then (as I expect will be the case for millions) you’re probably going to be pushed back down the list as we start to re-vaccinate those elderly and vulnerable people whose immunity is wearing off from the vaccine they were given in January and February.  

As for virus coming up against a lot of people who are vaccinated risking it mutating more dangerously, again isn’t that the same for flu every single year? 
 

edit: sorry just read the post you quoted - my comments about hospitals and nurses rather than flu jabs for youngsters was re Kg’s post regarding flu jabs. But equally, once covid gets down to an appropriate level, I’d say the same about that. Yes vaccinating 20 year olds might stop it mutating nastily. It might equally mutate nastily anyway and we’ve wasted a load of money on youngsters the vast majority of whom would have had a cough and nothing more. So better to spend the money on hospitals and nurses.for the time being though yes we should be vaccinating as many as possible, but we can be doing that whilst society opens up slowly (and only when we get to a low enough number of hospitalisations in the first place).

Edited February 12, 2021 by Aggy

[Indy 3,297]

13 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I haven’t suggested we don’t bother vaccinating the under 50s. If we can guarantee everyone will have had two jabs by the end of March, then great. Realistically though, the majority of healthy under 40s aren’t going to be vaccinated until late summer at the earliest. And if you haven’t been vaccinated by then (as I expect will be the case for millions) you’re probably going to be pushed back down the list as we start to re-vaccinate those elderly and vulnerable people whose immunity is wearing off from the vaccine they were given in January and February.  

As for virus coming up against a lot of people who are vaccinated risking it mutating more dangerously, again isn’t that the same for flu every single year? 

I tend to agree, if you can get all over 50’s (as many as possible) and then those who could be at risk and under 50 like those over weight, with underlying conditions vaccinated and in the autumn booster shot surely it would be enough! The vaccines look like they’ll stop most Mutations from hospitalising most people, reducing deaths to minimum numbers, that should’ve what we are aiming for?

Edited February 12, 2021 by Indy

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I tend to agree, if you can get all over 50’s (as many as possible) and then those who could be at risk and under 50 like those over weight, with underlying conditions vaccinated and in the autumn booster shot surely it would be enough! The vaccines look like they’ll stop most Mutations from hospitalising most people, reducing deaths to minimum numbers, that should’ve what we are aiming for?

Has to be hospitalisations. Everyone potentially suffers if hospitals are too busy - 25 year olds in a car crash or 85 year olds with pneumonia. Lockdowns aren’t about protecting 80 year olds, they’re about making sure everyone has a fair crack at getting life saving treatment if they need it. You start having lockdowns for other things and you’re getting into risky arbitrary decision making and potentially discriminatory territory.

Why is the risk of mutation from covid enough to lock people down but not the risk of mutation from influenza? Are we saying we don’t care that tens of thousands die from flu every year as a result of it mutating in the community to beat our vaccines? If you’re someone who has lost a family member from flu/pneumonia, how do you feel about that - your family member’s life wasn’t deemed important enough but others were just because they so happened to have caught something different?

The only reason we “don’t care” is that hospitals just about manage.

 When we get to a point where hospitals can manage then we start to slowly open up society. Obviously if we do that too quickly hospitalisations might shoot up again so quick that hospitals are overwhelmed, so yes we have to wait until a certain point. But if those most at risk of hospitalisation are all vaccinated, then the risk of hospitals being overwhelmed drops massively. 

Any policy based on potential future mutations is then frankly pie in the sky. You can spend your whole life hiding away hoping one thing doesn’t mutate nastily and then something else does anyway. And as the Fauci quote which Horsefly put up a few days back said - they’re more likely to mutate nastily when there are fewer potential hosts, because it needs to do something especially nasty to survive. So there’s no guarantee that it won’t mutate to avoid vaccines anyway, even if you reduce the number of infections.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

I could write far more paragraphs than this but to summarise, it appears that the key is to get everyone vaccinated that wants to be and then we will all have at least a baseline level of protection (t cell immunity etc) so that we don't need to go to hospital. At that point we will be over the worst of all this even taking the mutants into consideration. It sounds like that baseline protection isn't really affected by any of these mutations and by the time we get new ones, we'll get a renewed vaccination.

Anyone who thinks we can just social distance forever is completely deluded. Sure, keep some basic public health measures that should have been there even before covid but the invasive measures have no place in our lives once case load is down and the vaccinations rollout has reached us all.

[Icecream Snow 761]

I saw this and was outraged

....that the Sun are charging 85p for a paper!

[Van wink 2,994]

8 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

I could write far more paragraphs than this but to summarise, it appears that the key is to get everyone vaccinated that wants to be and then we will all have at least a baseline level of protection (t cell immunity etc) so that we don't need to go to hospital. At that point we will be over the worst of all this even taking the mutants into consideration. It sounds like that baseline protection isn't really affected by any of these mutations and by the time we get new ones, we'll get a renewed vaccination.

Anyone who thinks we can just social distance forever is completely deluded. Sure, keep some basic public health measures that should have been there even before covid but the invasive measures have no place in our lives once case load is down and the vaccinations rollout has reached us all.

Spot on, and as for basic public health measures, hopefully people will now be a bit better educated about the value of the basics. Additionally public health will, hopefully, be at the forefront of health provision and not hidden away in the cupboard, underfunded, like it has been for so many years.

[paul moy 235]

Digital Vaccine Certificates  backed by UK ministers (ie:  vaccine passports)  :    🤗

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9255925/Digital-travel-vaccine-certificates-backed-Cabinet-ministers-used-March.html

[Tetteys Jig 830]

1 hour ago, paul moy said:

Digital Vaccine Certificates  backed by UK ministers (ie:  vaccine passports)  :    🤗

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9255925/Digital-travel-vaccine-certificates-backed-Cabinet-ministers-used-March.html

Good. Its already been a thing anyway. I had to prove I'd had the yellow fever jab before being allowed into Bolivia. (sure it's a bit more significant now though).

[Well b back 3,202]

12 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Good. Its already been a thing anyway. I had to prove I'd had the yellow fever jab before being allowed into Bolivia. (sure it's a bit more significant now though).

So glad the government have finally relented and admitted we won’t be the only country in the world not to have a passport.

If you remember TJ we were saying this should happen way back in September when we realised others were doing it. They should have listened to the pink un posters again would have saved a lot of time.

[Well b back 3,202]

3 hours ago, Van wink said:

Spot on, and as for basic public health measures, hopefully people will now be a bit better educated about the value of the basics. Additionally public health will, hopefully, be at the forefront of health provision and not hidden away in the cupboard, underfunded, like it has been for so many years.

They will need some more sinks in the toilets in football grounds that’s for certain lol.

[Herman 9,756]

There's four in the upper Barclay. How many more do you want?😉

[paul moy 235]

22 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Good. Its already been a thing anyway. I had to prove I'd had the yellow fever jab before being allowed into Bolivia. (sure it's a bit more significant now though).

Same here.  I needed to have  the yellow fever jab and certificate to enter Senegal and Guinea Bissau in 2016 from The Gambia.  

Those people that refuse to have the jabs will not be allowed to travel to certain countries without hassle and that is why I decided that for me the current jab is essential. 

 

 

 

[paul moy 235]

12 minutes ago, Well b back said:

So glad the government have finally relented and admitted we won’t be the only country in the world not to have a passport.

If you remember TJ we were saying this should happen way back in September when we realised others were doing it. They should have listened to the pink un posters again would have saved a lot of time.

As you well know at the time many were against the idea and many still are so the government has been biding its time in order to go with the majority public opinion at the right time.  Political commonsense imo.