Corona Virus main thread

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

100,000 dead. 

Just stop for a moment and think about that.

Those days we've enjoyed Carrow Road, full to the brim, rocking with life and verve. That was just over 27,000 people.

An amount not far short of four full Carrow Roads, gone. 

I don't know what's going through Boris Johnson's head right now, but if it isn't shame and sadness then he is as heartless as he is incompetent. The worst Prime Minister in my lifetime so far.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Terminally Yellow

[Herman 9,764]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Retired now, means I have so much more time to research facts.

It's about time you started then, isn't it?

[kirku 1,332]

5 hours ago, Well b back said:

That’s good, look forward to it.

Don't hold your breath..

[paul moy 235]

8 hours ago, Well b back said:

This delay led to  the current situation whereby they are trying to blame the now efficient and sovereign UK fortheir own foul-up

Please could you supply a link as to where they have blamed the U.K. ? They are blaming AstraZeneca for taking money and signing a contract for goods that didn’t exist. There is no way wether part of the EU or not because of The MHRA we would have not made the same decisions to approve and purchase the vaccines. 
It’s quite funny that you seem to think that I think I don’t think our strategy is good. I appreciate you struggle with seeing what you want to see but what I have said is nobody will know who’s strategy was best for at least year.

Did you see the second lot of Israeli data today ? Because that was really positive and made our strategy look even more promising you have chosen to ignore it ? I find that really odd you have ignored it.

Oh keep up !!  😂

 

[Van wink 2,994]

11 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Excellent read VW. A little bit of transparency would quickly put this silly row to bed. I think the knub of the EU issue is that it is acknowledged that early AZ batches in UK came from the EU sources despite the yield (in the UK they could be used - it was licensed to use).  So simply how many and how is the UK manufactured supply ramping up to supplant the EU imported batches. Numbers please. Not 'will' supplant or reach 2M/week but what of now.

The big thing that struck me was the sheer capacity, capable of manufacturing 1.2 billion doses a year world wide and of course all to be sold on a not for profit basis. It really is a wonderful enterprise and makes it even more sad that this vaccine war has broken out.

As said earlier, the sooner this can start getting to the less well off nations of the world the better. 

Edited January 27, 2021 by Van wink

[paul moy 235]

5 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

100,000 dead. 

Just stop for a moment and think about that.

Those days we've enjoyed Carrow Road, full to the brim, rocking with life and verve. That was just over 27,000 people.

An amount not far short of four full Carrow Road's, gone. 

I don't know what's going through Boris Johnson's head right now, but if it isn't shame and sadness then he is as heartless as he is incompetent. The worst Prime Minister in my lifetime so far.

The UK people are in general responsible but a large minority are responsible for being in denial, not taking simple precautions, and continuing to spread the virus.  Blaming Boris is the easy way out but I have seen many breaking rules, and even yesterday many people were reported on Radio Five Live by a caller for not wearing masks on the London Underground. 

Only a few weeks ago some radio commentators and personailities were even questioning why we were having lockdown as hospitals were not busy and even a nurse was publicising that the virus was a myth.

The answer is clearly in the hands of the public to behave responsibly.  I personally have complained in my local Tesco supermarket to management about people not wearing masks and simply got fobbed off. 

So this is clearly not all Boris's fault to reasonable people.

[paul moy 235]

8 hours ago, Well b back said:

we have already vaccinated nearly SEVEN MILLION
 

I know that’s amazing, and I am proud to be part of it. Pity people like you with lots of time on your hands can’t help the National effort. We have 4 EU citizens in our team they take great pride in every person that is vaccinated, you would probably ban them. In the area tomorrow has been delivered an unexpected batch of vaccine with no warning. When an email came out this lunchtime 2 of them were the first to volunteer.

You really need to learn to troll better.  I am retired as I've said before, vulnerable due to age,  and therefore at risk and am being responsible by staying at home to reduce pressure on the NHS as per government advice.  Stop your virtue signalling and try applying commonsense. 

[paul moy 235]

8 hours ago, Well b back said:

we have already vaccinated nearly SEVEN MILLION
 

I know that’s amazing, and I am proud to be part of it. Pity people like you with lots of time on your hands can’t help the National effort. We have 4 EU citizens in our team they take great pride in every person that is vaccinated, you would probably ban them. In the area tomorrow has been delivered an unexpected batch of vaccine with no warning. When an email came out this lunchtime 2 of them were the first to volunteer.

The figure announced by the BBC last night was 6.9 million to be precise.   Keep on trolling....... 🤗

[paul moy 235]

7 hours ago, Well b back said:

I'm not surprised as they think it is only 8% effective !!!!  
 

That’s really strange you saying that. You may remember a couple of weeks ago you put up an anti vaxing post saying according to the Lancet report and the data coming from that very few over 55’s had been in the trial. As several on here pointed out you were totally incorrect and about 13% ( 1418 ) of the used trial data alone for efficacy was above 55. The problem was that these people joined the trial late, so there was very little proven data. This shew an 8% figure if you only counted numbers, and the German media person incorrectly came to the conclusion that 8% was the efficacy. Although you didn’t mention the %, you stated there were few over 55’s in the trial, but there was no valid data to assess, both of you fell into the trap.

The paper was very specific ‘ that more data would be required ‘ and it was expected that because of the lack of data even though there seemed to be the same antibodies at dose 2 that the MHRA would only approve the vaccine for the under 55’s. However they didn’t. The next data was always to be paper approved about now and nobody knows what that says, hopefully and highly likely there will be some promising news for the over 55’s. The warning shot from Germany was this maybe approved for under 55’s only, the rest was incorrectly added by the press it seems. 
As always data I show is as I understand it and I am always happy to be corrected, preferably in a pleasant way as I love discussing the data, and as the saying goes you learn more by getting things wrong than being right every time. 
 

Only 1418 (12·9%) of those assessed for efficacy were older than 55 years (none of whom were in the LD/SD cohort), meaning that from the interim analysis of these trials, we cannot yet infer efficacy in older adults, who are the group at greatest risk of severe COVID-19 outcomes.

As ever, making it up.    All I said was that testing is not done on risky individuals for obvious reasons and so most elderly are excluded and thus allergies did not appear in the testing phase, as per Dr Chris Smith on Five Live.  Please feel free to provide a link where I mentioned any Lancet report because I have never,  troll .  😂

[paul moy 235]

18 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The big thing that struck me was the sheer capacity, capable of manufacturing 1.2 billion doses a year world wide and of course all to be sold on a not for profit basis. It really is a wonderful enterprise and makes it even more sad that this vaccine what has broken out.

As said earlier, the sooner this can start getting to the less well off nations of the world the better. 

I agree but it should also be aimed at those initially that are most vulnerable and losing the greater number of lives in order to save more lives.   For instance, how about prioritising elderly UK expats abroad that are unable to return home for one reason or another. 

[paul moy 235]

Germany backtrack on their 'Project Fear' over   Astra vaccine.   EU Officials had informed Bild newspaper journalists that vaccine was only 8% effective but now deny it....  LOL

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1389003/oxford-vaccine-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-germany-coronavirus

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

31 minutes ago, Van wink said:

The big thing that struck me was the sheer capacity, capable of manufacturing 1.2 billion doses a year world wide and of course all to be sold on a not for profit basis. It really is a wonderful enterprise and makes it even more sad that this vaccine war has broken out.

As said earlier, the sooner this can start getting to the less well off nations of the world the better. 

Yes VW, It an amazing achievement and puts this silly vaccine war in perspective. A few weeks here or there from a global perspective is irrelevant especially when we know that our lockdown can halt it and nobody is really safe until we all are safe. Uncomfortable yes.  We need to vaccinate and help the world, and then no doubt do it again as the virus mutates and mutates again. Who knows what versions are already out there unnoticed as yet - let alone other potential pandemics

Perhaps this will bring out the best of humanity and get us out of our petty nationalism. We can no longer afford it!

[ricardo 7,395]

9 hours ago, Well b back said:

 

Please could you supply a link as to where they have blamed the U.K. ? They are blaming AstraZeneca for taking money and signing a contract for goods that didn’t exist. 

Its not that the goods didn't exist. Its the contract that doesn't  exist. All they have is a promise by AZ to do their best to supply them. Whereas the UK does have an actual contract.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Its not that the goods didn't exist. Its the contract that doesn't  exist. All they have is a promise by AZ to do their best to supply them. Whereas the UK does have an actual contract.

There is still a contract Ricardo - the exact terms we are not privy too. I'm very used to 'best efforts' and what might be reasonably expected.

Legal action however will not resolve the issue today or tomorrow - I'm petty sure AZ are doing everything they can to expedite.

I was going to add that even if we had a 'guaranteed ' delivery if AZ have/had/yet to have the same issues in the UK it still wouldn't make any difference.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Yellow Fever

[Van wink 2,994]

6 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Its not that the goods didn't exist. Its the contract that doesn't  exist. All they have is a promise by AZ to do their best to supply them. Whereas the UK does have an actual contract.

I think both parties have contracts  but agreed at different times and on different terms. 

[Van wink 2,994]

6 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

There is still a contract Ricardo - the exact terms we are not privy too. I'm very used to 'best efforts' and what might be reasonably expected.

Legal action however will not resolve the issue today or tomorrow - I'm petty sure AZ are doing everything they can to expedite.

I would imagine “best-efforts ” is a well litigated area of law and the only people that would gain from a dispute on those terms would be the lawyers.

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

Just now, Van wink said:

I would imagine “best-efforts ” is a well litigated area of law and the only people that would gain from a dispute on those terms would be the lawyers.

Yes Exactly - The real truth here is that in reality all are 'best effort's as what's the alternative? It's a red herring of an argument.

[Van wink 2,994]

17 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes Exactly - The real truth here is that in reality all are 'best effort's as what's the alternative? It's a red herring of an argument.

I guess that’s what the court would have to determine. As you know all these terms used in contracts are there for a reason and often don’t reflect a lay interpretation. A quagmire.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Van wink

[ricardo 7,395]

This explains it quite clearly

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55817633

Quite telling, this bit

He added: "We've also had teething issues like this in the UK supply chain. But the UK contract was signed three months before the European vaccine deal. So with the UK we have had an extra three months to fix all the glitches we experienced.

[Well b back 3,203]

Now here’s some good news.

In the Birmingham area we are about to open up 5 huge hubs. These hubs will work 24/7. So despite everything we can clearly keep going with our strategy, which of course is fantastic news. I don’t know this for certain but I have a sneaky feeling that there will be less surgeries more hubs. 
Absolutely amazing news and I suspect this will be the next step throughout the U.K. 

[Yellow Fever 3,783]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

This explains it quite clearly

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55817633

Quite telling, this bit

He added: "We've also had teething issues like this in the UK supply chain. But the UK contract was signed three months before the European vaccine deal. So with the UK we have had an extra three months to fix all the glitches we experienced.

Yes Ricardo - It's a master class in PR. That's why he's the 'head' of AZ. However it also what it doesn't say! Know your audience, defend the company,  tell them what they want to hear, want to believe. AZ are still very much to be applauded for the work they've done.

The contracts and indeed the timing issues are a little bit of a diversion - normally all the lessons learnt (teething) issues from one plant can be more quickly applied to another - often easier not to be first. Then again I think the first batches for the UK came from AZ in Europe anyway and without a doubt LOI existed for all orders. Make of that what you will. Certainly the UK did have an inherent advantage in that Oxford had already set up some prototype facilities.

Anyway - the only true issue for the EU beyond pressurizing AZ and Pfizer which it appears they are addressing is to make sure that vaccines they have paid for by whatever means are not diverted elsewhere for reasons of commercial expediency as opposed to agreed humanitarian reasons. Seems quite balanced.

Give it a month and most of this will be water under the bridge. AZ will have delivered lots to EU (and there is only a certain rate at which they like us can actually use it - something which we have indeed thankfully got right no doubt to the hard working NHS) plus we might have got our own AZ facilities up to the 2M/doses a week by then.

[Well b back 3,203]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

Oh keep up !!  😂

 

No links then ?

[Well b back 3,203]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

The UK people are in general responsible but a large minority are responsible for being in denial, not taking simple precautions, and continuing to spread the virus.  Blaming Boris is the easy way out but I have seen many breaking rules, and even yesterday many people were reported on Radio Five Live by a caller for not wearing masks on the London Underground. 

Only a few weeks ago some radio commentators and personailities were even questioning why we were having lockdown as hospitals were not busy and even a nurse was publicising that the virus was a myth.

The answer is clearly in the hands of the public to behave responsibly.  I personally have complained in my local Tesco supermarket to management about people not wearing masks and simply got fobbed off. 

So this is clearly not all Boris's fault to reasonable people.

We agree your fellow brexiteers not long ago were telling us how masks didn’t work and it was disgusting they had to wear them. Christmas was Johnson’s fault though.

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

The UK people are in general responsible but a large minority are responsible for being in denial, not taking simple precautions, and continuing to spread the virus.  Blaming Boris is the easy way out but I have seen many breaking rules, and even yesterday many people were reported on Radio Five Live by a caller for not wearing masks on the London Underground. 

Only a few weeks ago some radio commentators and personailities were even questioning why we were having lockdown as hospitals were not busy and even a nurse was publicising that the virus was a myth.

The answer is clearly in the hands of the public to behave responsibly.  I personally have complained in my local Tesco supermarket to management about people not wearing masks and simply got fobbed off. 

So this is clearly not all Boris's fault to reasonable people.

Oh **** off you Boris **** licker. The reason so many **** about with the rules is because of the disgraceful blind eye he turned to Dominic Cummings.

And that's not the worst his Government has done. At the start of the pandemic he was slow to react. Cheltenham festival and Liverpool v Madrid went ahead despite obvious risks. He has reacted, rather than been proactive, ignoring SAGE for weeks at a time. His government have given billions in contracts, many of whom to people connected to the government, many have proven to be absolute wastes of money. Test and Trace has been utterly ineffective and cost us billions. Tiers have been even worse - I heard an interview with a SAGE virologist claiming tiers weren't fit for purpose. PPE is still in short supply (my partner who works in the ambulance service finally got a properly protective mask just this week). Care homes have been utterly forgotten. Ignoring how long it's taken to get them PPE, the care home my mum is in were told they were going to be visited by the immunisation team last Wednesday. No one turned up. Not even a phone call to explain why. Schools kept open way too long risking the lives of teachers and students, borders and travel routes remain open and functional risking dangerous variants entering the country. Eat Out to Help Out has been shown to have directly contributed to the virus' resurgence. 

We have the worst death rate per capita in the world. Many of those deaths could have been prevented. And yes, I agree that rule breakers need to look at themselves and realise they have blood on their hands. But to say that Boris and this Government are not to blame to "reasonable people" is utter utter horseplop. 

At this time, we needed a leader. We got a jackass. 

 

[Well b back 3,203]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

You really need to learn to troll better.  I am retired as I've said before, vulnerable due to age,  and therefore at risk and am being responsible by staying at home to reduce pressure on the NHS as per government advice.  Stop your virtue signalling and try applying commonsense. 

How does that stop you, you get the vaccine ? and PPE. I am retired with underlying conditions and was terrified of COVID,. There are admin jobs you can do at home. 

[Well b back 3,203]

2 hours ago, paul moy said:

The figure announced by the BBC last night was 6.9 million to be precise.   Keep on trolling....... 🤗

Lol the figure was a copy and paste of your quote.

[Barbe bleu 826]

I dont think anyone is going to seriously dispute that on vaccines the UK has done very well and the EU dropped the ball.

We are told that the UK has enough vaccine to cover the most vulnerable groups.  We are also told that supply will be limited.

Question is should we divert vaccine supply that would have come to us for less vulnerable groups to the EU to cover their priority needs?  As people have said it is still very bad there and places like spain and portugal are pretty much where we were a short while ago.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

5 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think k anyone is going to seriously disputenthwt on vaccines thw UK has done very well and the EU dropped the ball.

We arw yoldnthat the UK has enough vaccine to cover the most vulnerable groups.  We are also told that supply will be limited.

Question is should we divert vaccine supply that would have come to us for less vulnerable groups to the EU to cover their priority needs?  As people have said it is still very bad there and places like spain and portugal are pretty much where we were a short while ago.

In a word - no. 

The more we vaccinate here the fewer will die here and the quicker we open up the economy. 

After that we can help Africa and our Carribbean cousins

 

 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

17 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I dont think anyone is going to seriously dispute that on vaccines the UK has done very well and the EU dropped the ball.

We are told that the UK has enough vaccine to cover the most vulnerable groups.  We are also told that supply will be limited.

Question is should we divert vaccine supply that would have come to us for less vulnerable groups to the EU to cover their priority needs?  As people have said it is still very bad there and places like spain and portugal are pretty much where we were a short while ago.

Hopefully we won't do what the EU did yesterday and threaten to block perfectly legal exports to third countries.

[Well b back 3,203]

Just now, ricardo said:

Hopefully we won't do what the EU did yesterday and threaten to block perfectly legal exports to third countries.

Bet we would have done it been the other way round.