Corona Virus main thread

[ricardo 7,444]

YouGov

 

✔ @YouGov

 

 

Public view on how well their government is handling #coronavirus, net figures in each country

+92
+85
+68
+66
+63
+56
+50
+39
+38
+21
+4
+1
-14
-18
-18https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2020/04/18/international-covid-19-tracker-update-18-april?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=covid_tracker_18_apr_update … #covid19

[ricardo 7,444]

YouGov

 

✔ @YouGov

 

 

Proportion who now say they are wearing a face mask in public places (change on four weeks ago):

Italy: 85% (+26)
India: 84% (+38)
Spain: 65% (+40)
France: 43% (+31)
UK: 11% (+9)https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2020/03/17/YouGov-international-COVID-19-tracker?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=coronavirus_tracker …

 

31

4:54 PM - Apr 20, 2020

 

 

Now there's one to get your teeth into Bill😀

[ricardo 7,444]

I Liked the first one on China but couldn't help wonder how many of 8 percent who disagreed have now been disappeared.

[Barbe bleu 837]

31 minutes ago, Bill said:

So aside from Barbie cue's aburd nonsense, how has the government tried to delect fom Johnson's incompetence 

There is  nothing absurd in saying that our poor performace relative to Germany has very little to do with ventilators or PPE and a lot to do with how well we both executed phase one of our plans: contain.  

 

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,199]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Well if you've got a big warehouse for storage you could turn up and buy some barrels and make a few quid. Now trading at minus yes MINUS 37 dollars.

I think something just broke.

I´m sure I read a story 20 years ago, during the fuel protests, where someone filled their bathtub with petrol!

Can´t find a link, though

[Barbe bleu 837]

Why we failed no one has really analysed as the focus is (quite rightly) on the here and now.

Once it failed though were were left guessing. There was little data available and no experience to guide anyone as to the best time to lockdown. 

[Yellow Fever 3,848]

17 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I Liked the first one on China but couldn't help wonder how many of 8 percent who disagreed have now been disappeared.

It seems the ones that acted hardest and fastest are generally the ones thought to be doing best.

I note the Swedes and Japanese aren't very happy.

And yes having spoken to my colleagues in both Taiwan and China that applies there too.

 

[sonyc 5,541]

56 minutes ago, ricardo said:

YouGov

 

✔ @YouGov

 

 

Public view on how well their government is handling #coronavirus, net figures in each country

+92
+85
+68
+66
+63
+56
+50
+39
+38
+21
+4
+1
-14
-18
-18https://yougov.co.uk/topics/international/articles-reports/2020/04/18/international-covid-19-tracker-update-18-april?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=website_article&utm_campaign=covid_tracker_18_apr_update … #covid19

Other survey question responses here (Ipsos)

[SHRIMPER 328]

How is the virus not going to spread further when this is happeng worldwide. Cannot all be empty and flown by George and there must be people with it on them. Taken less than half an hour ago and wherever you look in the world its the same.

 

[Herman 9,853]

How many flights still coming into the UK?

[sonyc 5,541]

9 minutes ago, Herman said:

How many flights still coming into the UK?

Think there's one from Turkey

😉

[sonyc 5,541]

Oh, wait a minute, probably not....

[Bill 1,788]

Liverpool v Atlético virus links 'interesting hypothesis', says government scientist

" New figures show that 246 people have died with coronavirus in Liverpool’s NHS hospitals, increasing anger over the the decision to allow the game to go ahead. "

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/20/liverpool-v-atletico-virus-links-interesting-hypothesis-says-government-scientist

 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Choose your expert with care. This is the editor in chief of the Lancet. 

 

[Bill 1,788]

On 14/04/2020 at 12:43, Rock The Boat said:

WHO has got much wrong and at some time we will have to look at their relevance. 

In mid-January WHO were claiming that covid Human-Human infection was impossible. They didn't declare a global pandemic until March 11. 

I suspect much of WHO's advice that facemasks were unnecessary was due to there not being enough facemasks to go around and they were trying to get what limited stocks they had to the health professionals. 

In case you were wondering where hand crank lied, then

" The World Health Organization warned the US and other countries about the risk of human-to-human transmission of Covid-19 as early as 10 January, and urged precautions even though initial Chinese studies at that point had found no clear evidence of that route of infection. "

No clear evidence is not a claim that something is impossible, and in fact

"in the same week top WHO officials were briefing health leaders around the world to keep looking out for signs of such transmission, and to take precautions as if it was already happening. The WHO declared a “public health emergency of international concern” on 30 January

And it is absolute **** to talk of the date the WHO declared a pandemic, as any declaration requires certain events to have happened - it is not something they can simply state out of hand.

And as to the guff about masks the mere fact that their, and others, line has not changed is that the evidence has not changed.

That hand crank lies to defend his 'betters' as do other confused righties should not mean those lies go unchallenged, as the protests by halfwits in the US should prove a good why challenge is always needed.

Lies and misinformation have consequences - as the fat slug recovering in Chequers might just grasp. No need to avoid shaking hands is there Boris ?

[Bill 1,788]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Choose your expert with care. This is the editor in chief of the Lancet. 

 

So the man who gave us a previous lie about this matter, has now put up another - oddly enough exactly as is posted elsewhere

So to clarify -

The government statement quoted a tweet from Lancet editor Richard Horton on 23 January urging “caution” on suggestions that a killer virus was coming as proof that there was no scientific consensus at that point that coronavirus was a threat. But Mr Horton accused the government of “deliberately rewriting history in its ongoing Covid-19 disinformation campaign”.

He said his message related to the need for caution in media reporting and was “followed by a series of tweets drawing attention to the dangers of this new disease”.

Mr Horton said he had drawn attention to Lancet publications on the severity and “pandemic potential” of Covid-19, the danger of human-to-human transmission and the need for intensive care treatment, and the next day had asked why there was no discussion underway of the “urgent clinical challenge” of responding. By 26 January, he said he was tweeting that the “needle is moving towards the affirmative” on the need for declaring an international public health emergency.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/coronavirus-boris-johnson-news-sunday-times-report-no-10-response-a9474081.html

[T 190]

https://www.lynnnews.co.uk/lifestyle/letters-clapping-is-hypocrisy-in-my-book-9106813/?fbclid=iwar06bj7iug7o0yvnuvush7dzwxdysfiveafpwtmchuy3logh0nuagessziw
 

Good article from Norfolk about  the hypocrisy highlighted by the CV 19 crisis. . For me it is not about Tory or Labour but common decency. For the Home Secretary to continue with an immigration policy to discriminate against those who always were and have been highlighted to be critical during this crisis is despicable. The UK is led by people who have been hostile to critical people in our society. There are certainly some on here who should be ashamed of themselves and have a rethink. I suspect Boris might get it but there some on here in the Trump mindset who never will. 

[Herman 9,853]

5 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Choose your expert with care. This is the editor in chief of the Lancet. 

 

We saw through you and your distractions and deflections a long time ago. This isn't Brexit anymore, this is literally life and death. Pack it in. 

[Mark .Y. 352]

11 hours ago, Essjayess said:

Dont quite understand what your point is there Mark. I was merely comparing the UK and Germany, density wise, and both nations share pretty much the same European temperate climate. I dont think either have to many thousands of square miles of uninhabited savannah, a fact that Basil Fawlty remarked on decades ago when  he remarked on the lack of Wildebeast when he gazed  out from his Torquay hotel  bedroom window.

I wasn't trying to score points or dispute your views E. That's why I said it isn't something I have looked into at all.

What I was trying to say that if you had two countries with a population of 10 million, one of them had a land area of 5 million square miles and the other 10 million, you would think that the population density would be much less for the second  country. But if 99% of the population of the second country only lives in 50% of the land area, because maybe the rest of the country is uninhabitable, then the true population density would be similar.

Not suggesting for a moment that is the case with ourselves and Germany, just something that crossed my mind.

[Van wink 2,994]

18 minutes ago, Mark .Y. said:

I wasn't trying to score points or dispute your views E. That's why I said it isn't something I have looked into at all.

What I was trying to say that if you had two countries with a population of 10 million, one of them had a land area of 5 million square miles and the other 10 million, you would think that the population density would be much less for the second  country. But if 99% of the population of the second country only lives in 50% of the land area, because maybe the rest of the country is uninhabitable, then the true population density would be similar.

Not suggesting for a moment that is the case with ourselves and Germany, just something that crossed my mind.

If you have large conurbations then that’s where there is the highest risk of spread irrespective of the land mass of the country. There are considerations here though, where we do have well defined  rural locations where infection rates are low there is no reason why they can’t be released from lockdown. Social distancing would need to be maintained, good personal hygiene and the wearing of masks in areas where people are likely to be in closer proximity such as public transport and shops. You then need testing and thorough contact tracing of infected people. You would also of course need some rudimentary controls over movement of people to ensure that large numbers of infected people were not coming into the area. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Van wink

[Mark .Y. 352]

1 minute ago, Van wink said:

If you have large conurbations then that’s where there is the highest risk of spread irrespective of the land mass of the country. There are considerations here though, where we do have well defined  rural locations where infection rates are low there is no reason why they can’t be released from lockdown. Social distancing would need to be maintained, good personal hygiene and the wearing of masks in areas wherepeople are likely to be in closer proximity such as public transport and shops. You then need testing and thorough contact tracing of infected people. You would also of course need some rudimentary controls over movement of people to ensure that large numbers of infected people were not coming into the area. 

I don't disagree

[T 190]

4 minutes ago, Van wink said:

If you have large conurbations then that’s where there is the highest risk of spread irrespective of the land mass of the country. There are considerations here though, where we do have well defined  rural locations where infection rates are low there is no reason why they can’t be released from lockdown. Social distancing would need to be maintained, good personal hygiene and the wearing of masks in areas where people are likely to be in closer proximity such as public transport and shops. You then need testing and thorough contact tracing of infected people. You would also of course need some rudimentary controls over movement of people to ensure that large numbers of infected people were not coming into the area. 

So you agree with Merkel and this horrible Germans then because  that is there policy 😉  Restrict immigration apart from 40000 Eastern European’s let in after quarantine to pick Asparagus because that really would be a national disaster. Germany also has its immigration hyprocrits. 

[Van wink 2,994]

9 minutes ago, T said:

So you agree with Merkel and this horrible Germans then because  that is there policy 😉  Restrict immigration apart from 40000 Eastern European’s let in after quarantine to pick Asparagus because that really would be a national disaster. Germany also has its immigration hyprocrits. 

“Horrible Germans”   What are you on? I have described a classic public health intervention, no surprise that Germany or anywhere else is adopting it. You need to get a grip and take your prejudice elsewhere, this isn’t the place for it.😉

[T 190]

Just winding the nationalists up. 😉  Test trace isolate is standard. The masks for shops and public transport is the current German recommendation and becoming compulsory in some states and is debatable. Suspect will come to UK also when on top of PPE.
 

I’m glad ordered some FFP2/3 masks sometime ago just in case as looking as heading that way generally. Not particularly keen on wearing a mask as somewhat antisocial but not as antisocial as potentially giving someone covid 19 inadvertently so if it helps even just a bit happy to comply. 

[Van wink 2,994]

33 minutes ago, T said:

Just winding the na”tionalists up. 😉  Test trace isolate is standard. The masks for shops and public transport is the current German recommendation and becoming compulsory in some states and is debatable. Suspect will come to UK also when on top of PPE.
 

I’m glad ordered some FFP2/3 masks sometime ago just in case as looking as heading that way generally. Not particularly keen on wearing a mask as somewhat antisocial but not as antisocial as potentially giving someone covid 19 inadvertently so if it helps even just a bit happy to comply. 

“Just winding the nationalists up”  Move on and stop labelling, it’s pointless and detracts from what’s actually a really good thread....😉

How many masks did you get, you don’t need masks of that spec to prevent spread, Front line NHS workers would benefit from wearing those, a lower spec mask would be sufficient for you.

Give you local NHS surgery a ring, if the boxes are unopened I’m sure they would welcome them.

[Yellow Fever 3,848]

Latest ONS figures seem to suggest (week to 10/4/20) that about 15 % of coronavirus related deaths are outside hospital!

[T 190]

39 minutes ago, Van wink said:

“Just winding the nationalists up”  Move on and stop labelling, it’s pointless and detracts from what’s actually a really good thread....😉

How many masks did you get, you don’t need masks of that spec to prevent spread, Front line NHS workers would benefit from wearing those, a lower spec mask would be sufficient for you.

Give you local NHS surgery a ring, if the boxes are unopened I’m sure they would welcome them.

It is part of the issue though whether you like it or not and even more so in the US. Immigration supplies nurses carers and are critical to the food chain which the nationalists have argued against. 
 

i fully agree with you regarding masks  Only for own use ordered sometime ago and designed for cycling rather then medical    Not everywhere has the same issues as UK and they are becoming compulsory in some places 

 

[sonyc 5,541]

Did anyone watch Newsnight and Carl Heneghan's comment about the timing of lockdown and the peak? A contrarian stance perhaps but no less interesting about managing lockdown asap. Lots of stories online (yet mainly tabloid so far).

[Barbe bleu 837]

8 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Did anyone watch Newsnight and Carl Heneghan's comment about the timing of lockdown and the peak? A contrarian stance perhaps but no less interesting about managing lockdown asap. Lots of stories online (yet mainly tabloid so far).

I didn't.. what was the summary?

[sonyc 5,541]

That we ought to look now at lockdown because the peak was on the 8th and stage manage the relaxing of the lockdown measures. Even a suggestion lockdown may not have been required but very careful and stringent social distancing measures adopted. Another point concerned London, which has disproportionately taken a big hit in cases and deaths in that lockdown on 23rd was arguably too late (hence the capital being one or two weeks ahead of the rest of the country). It also then raised the question whether whole parts of the economy in all regions should have shutdown. 

It was interesting to listen to (to Maitlis too). Finally, Sweden's hospitalisations are falling off despite their admittedly much more relaxed approach. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by sonyc