Corona Virus main thread

[ricardo 7,395]

An exremely interesting video from Dr Campbell explaining a new peer reviewed paper from Chinese scientists that proposes a pathway for Omicron originating from the original Wuhan strain and jumping into mice before jumping back into humans. Well worth a watch.

 

[Well b back 3,208]

1 minute ago, benchwarmer said:

I'm quoting figures from the Intensive Care National Audit and Research Centre, not making it up.

I doubt if the same can be said of your claim that "50% of immunity from Omicron is through immunity built up mainly from vaccines".  Where did you get that figure from, and what does it actually mean?

I didn't know you had "skin in the game" in your role with the vaccine task force, but if your aggressive, blinkered stance is typical it's no wonder people are getting jabbed within an inch of their lives.  If saying "Have it [a third jab] if you want to but go into it with your eyes open" makes me anti-vax, we really are in trouble.  Do you deny that these vaccines are untested for the safety and effectiveness of a third jab within the space of nine months?  I repeat, we are guinea pigs.

Lol

As 2 of us have pointed out even if your figures were right you have just provided a huge argument about why you should be vaccinated.

Do you think unvaccinated people have a good immune response ?

I never persuade anyone to be vaccinated it is their own choice, but if somebody asked me questions I would provide facts only.

Why do you think MRNA vaccines are not safe, I would be interested to know.

[ricardo 7,395]

Some big numbers again in Ireland and Denmark again tonight which put them in the 250-300k UK equivalent band.

Italy also new high with 220k. Almost all Omicron I expect

[ricardo 7,395]

15 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

  Do you deny that these vaccines are untested for the safety and effectiveness of a third jab within the space of nine months?  I repeat, we are guinea pigs.

This may or may not be true but those of us in the extremely vulnerable band have to make a decision and for me that is obviously saying yes to the vaccine. Nothing is certain in life but I feel sure that the vaccine improves my odds when dicing with The Grim Reaper.

[Well b back 3,208]

Whilst on the subject of vaccines I see down in Norwich your main centre is moving from Castle Mall to City Hall.

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/norwich-vaccination-centre-moves-to-city-hall-8603912

[benchwarmer 625]

32 minutes ago, ricardo said:

This may or may not be true but those of us in the extremely vulnerable band have to make a decision and for me that is obviously saying yes to the vaccine. Nothing is certain in life but I feel sure that the vaccine improves my odds when dicing with The Grim Reaper.

Thank you Ricardo.  From my own point of view, I had covid (properly, not just a positive test without symptoms) before vaccination came in and am yet to be persuaded that the vaccines currently available are better than natural immunity.  I'm 70 and if I hadn't had the virus I probably would have got the jab. 

At this stage, needing three jabs to protect me from mild covid would take until next July, by which time things will no doubt have changed again and there may be updated vaccines.  I have no plans to travel abroad either, so what's the point?  No way would I get vaccinated just to avoid being stigmatised as anti-vax, which seems to be the strategy now.  Nasty.

Edited January 6, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Virtual reality 707]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Lol

As 2 of us have pointed out even if your figures were right you have just provided a huge argument about why you should be vaccinated.

Do you think unvaccinated people have a good immune response ?

I never persuade anyone to be vaccinated it is their own choice, but if somebody asked me questions I would provide facts only.

Why do you think MRNA vaccines are not safe, I would be interested to know.

“Do you think unvaccinated people have a good immune response ?”

I’ve no idea as to an unvaccinated persons immune response? What I do know though is my experience with the virus which was over a year ago and several months before I was eligible for the vaccine. As an unvaccinated person at the time of catching the virus I can quite honestly say that I’ve had worse colds. And not only myself but the other 7 people who also caught it at the same time and all were unvaccinated had a very similar experience. I appreciate not everyone has the same experience but I do believe that my experience is in the majority rather than the minority. I’ve since had the vaccine ( not the booster yet but I’m going to have to get it soon to go abroad )but it wasn’t to protect myself from this virus, it was to be able to travel,

But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t at all concerned about any longer term complications appearing from using these vaccines, especially now as it was a two dose vaccine and now it’s 3 doses, then 4 and where does that stop?

Edited January 6, 2022 by Virtual reality

[Foxy2600 301]

As with H5N1 - which I managed to catch in 2006, its not the virus, its the Pneumonia or even the Pleurisy that follows. Then the secondary infections take hold. 

A full record of Jabs and boosters is the only way forward.

 

[benchwarmer 625]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Lol

As 2 of us have pointed out even if your figures were right you have just provided a huge argument about why you should be vaccinated.

Do you think unvaccinated people have a good immune response ?

I never persuade anyone to be vaccinated it is their own choice, but if somebody asked me questions I would provide facts only.

Why do you think MRNA vaccines are not safe, I would be interested to know.

lots of love to you too

I quoted the figures purely for the sake of accuracy, not because I'm trying to persuade anyone not to be vaccinated.  No one does their case any credit by making stuff up.

As someone aged 70 with reasonably good but not perfect health who had a proper dose of "covid original" before vaccination came in, I'm confident that natural immunity provides me with at least as much protection as the current vaccines.  If I hadn't had the virus I probably would have got jabbed, but doubt if I would have gone for the third one.

I never said the vaccines were not safe per se.  But three jabs in six months was never envisaged nor tested for, and at this stage we simply don't know whether this is safe or provides any additional benefit.  

Edited January 6, 2022 by benchwarmer

[benchwarmer 625]

2 hours ago, benchwarmer said:

Boris says "anti-vax campaigns are mumbo jumbo".  Some are, but the same applies to pro-vax campaigns which promote vaccination, vaccination and more vaccination as the holy grail.

Far too much credit is being given to vaccination for the mild effect of Omicron.  South Africa is seeing the same pattern despite only 32% of the population having had even one jab.  The safety and effectiveness of a third jab in six months is completely untested. Theories abound, but quite simply no one knows.  We are guinea pigs, and there are huge financial gains to be made.  Have it if you want to, but go into it with your eyes open.  

Vaccination does have a role to play of course, but it is being weaponised by politicians.  In France which has over 90% vaccinated, well above the threshold needed for herd immunity, Macron in his election campaign is threatening measures to turn the unvaccinated (including those who have had covid and are therefore immune) into social outcasts.  And now there's the Djokovic hysteria . . . 

 

[Iwans Big Toe 312]

[ricardo 7,395]

9 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

As with H5N1 - which I managed to catch in 2006, its not the virus, its the Pneumonia or even the Pleurisy that follows. Then the secondary infections take hold. 

A full record of Jabs and boosters is the only way forward.

 

I had viral pneumonia and pleurisy twenty years ago so I know what you mean, its the worst I've ever felt and seemed to drag on for ages. Its probably whats made me wary of respiratory infections ever since. I'd rather be jabbed every friday than go through that again.

[benchwarmer 625]

I had pleurisy twice in the 1990s from catching a cold, not long before smoking at work was banned. It taught me to go for antibiotics at the first sign of a 'dirty cough' and I've never had it since.

Edited January 6, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

People are well known to be dreadful when it come to analyzing 'risk' and statistics.

Motorways are the safest roads, flying is safer than driving and so on - burning coal releases more radiation then nuclear (fission) power stations. Smoking, safety belts and even cycling.   

Of course many of the original infections with any of the Covid variants were asymptomatic or indeed mild (so beware of anecdotal data - "I had Covid and it was mild ergo it's always mild apart from those that now can't tell you) but a very significant number went on (and still do) to develop much more severe, or even fatal symptoms. Long Covid figures just released make it even worse.

Against this we have the heavily studied risk of the vaccines - given now to 3.8Bn fully vaccinated . Whereas there are some very very small risks they pale into insignificance as compared to catching (or re-catching) Covid for just about everybody.

The real guinea pigs are those that Covid is experimenting gleefully with today. I'd rather not be one so got the booster.

Edited January 6, 2022 by Yellow Fever

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I got pleurisy in the mid 90s and breathing was such a painful thing. And there is little you can do about it.

And had double pneumonia as they called it in those days as an 11 year old. And spent 8 weeks at Kelling (is it still open?).

Another painful experience in those days was a lumbar puncture which they did in the Jenny Lind.

[benchwarmer 625]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

I got pleurisy in the mid 90s and breathing was such a painful thing. And there is little you can do about it.

And had double pneumonia as they called it in those days as an 11 year old. And spent 8 weeks at Kelling (is it still open?).

Another painful experience in those days was a lumbar puncture which they did in the Jenny Lind.

Those were the days.  I vaguely recall being stabbed in the rear end with a huge glass syringe full of penicillin, the equally large needle sterilised in a naked flame.  

As for vaccinations - the school nurse had arms like an all-in wrestler and anyone who was a bit scared was seized in a headlock while the deed was done.  Do they still do that at Castle Mall I wonder?

Her other main task was examining our heads for lice, so she was known as 'Nitty Norah'.  My mother once found a solitary louse in my hair, put it in a matchbox and sent it to the school as evidence.  I was a bit embarrassed.

 

Edited January 6, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Barbe bleu 826]

15 hours ago, Foxy2600 said:

As with H5N1 - which I managed to catch in 2006, its not the virus, its the Pneumonia or even the Pleurisy that follows. Then the secondary infections take hold. 

A full record of Jabs and boosters is the only way forward.

 

Wow. According to reports h5n1 had never been transmitted in the UK until this year so you were either very unlucky to pick it up wherever you were or lucky to have got it and got over a flu that kills half of those infected and have some immunity from the disease that scientists were really worried about before all the current stuff.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

Chester FC in a spot of bother

 

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

55 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

Chester FC in a spot of bother

 

Oh dear - seems strange this has taken so long to surface.

Mind you, seems a bit like Johnson's Christmas parties - the police were on duty and knew exactly what was going on yet seemingly did nothing about it 🙄

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

40 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Oh dear - seems strange this has taken so long to surface.

Mind you, seems a bit like Johnson's Christmas parties - the police were on duty and knew exactly what was going on yet seemingly did nothing about it 🙄

It shows how absurd borders can be in some instances 

Personally, I think Chester should follow the rules of whatever local authority they are under. The article mentions Cheshire police cover their games, so maybe they should follow English covid regulations 

Then again, I  don't know if there are any Welsh authorities they come under for anything else.....

[ricardo 7,395]

National

178,250 - 229   

rate of increase of  19.8%      declining for third day     1.8 million tests

 

Local

Norwich   West rate             1566.2  1st day decline              Local   R  estimated 1 - 1.2

 

N&N in Hospital (sharp increase since last week)

04-01-2022                                81 03-01-2022 64 02-01-2022 59 01-01-2022 59 31-12-2021 44
Vax   1st Dose           22,741                90.2% done                               Norwich numbers   78.6%        Booster rate 51.9%      2nd Dose          34,688                 82.8% done                                                                 72.5% Booster    231,856    total          35,066,144                61%           In Hospital  (increase slowing)  patients on ventilation, lowest since 18th October   06-01-2022                                18,454 05-01-2022 18,015 04-01-2022 17,311 03-01-2022 16,325 02-01-2022 15,140 01-01-2022 14,508

Edited January 7, 2022 by ricardo

[Essjayess 307]

Maybe, just maybe, hopefully daily new cases are now at their peak with London showing a bit of a decrease and perhaps the rest of the nation going same route  in next week or two. Hospitals hopefully  are nearing a peak, at least partial good news on that ventilator front.

I recall the Chief Medical Officer saying 2 or 3 weeks back how these  numbers would rise very sharply as indeed they have, he also mentioned  followed by a speedy decline, based on what occured in South Africa. But i have some doubts about that due to the differences in pop. density here and some other factors. Any decline would of course be welcome but i feel the decrease factor will be a good deal slower here..thats just my general thoughts though, time will give us the answer to that outcome.

[Well b back 3,208]

A bit of news on fourth jabs. What this tells you I reckon is we are all required to catch it and if our numbers have peaked a new jab will be required for over 50’s etc, if they soar it won’t. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560

 

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

2 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A bit of news on fourth jabs. What this tells you I reckon is we are all required to catch it and if our numbers have peaked a new jab will be required for over 50’s etc, if they soar it won’t. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560

 

I think that is what I hinted to Ricardo a few days ago. Yes, it seems the 4th jab is live virus 😉.  The phrase kill or cure came to mind.

[ricardo 7,395]

11 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A bit of news on fourth jabs. What this tells you I reckon is we are all required to catch it and if our numbers have peaked a new jab will be required for over 50’s etc, if they soar it won’t. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560

 

Extremely vulnerable patients with impaired immune systems are still advised to have four shots overall, rather than the usual three, to be fully vaccinated.

[ricardo 7,395]

Time for another look at the wiring diagram

[Well b back 3,208]

3 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Extremely vulnerable patients with impaired immune systems are still advised to have four shots overall, rather than the usual three, to be fully vaccinated.

There will be dose 4 for over 50’s vulnerable ect, but wether it’s sooner or September the virus will decide. Israel figures show loads catching it, so it will be interesting to see if that now drops in over 60’s who are getting dose 4. Deaths holding in Israel as well could be telling if ours go up and Israel stay at single figures.

They certainly expected dose 4 as the new leases are for 6 months.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Mrs KG got her vulnerable kit today. Very poorly packaged.

[Badger 2,405]

On 06/01/2022 at 19:12, benchwarmer said:

I repeat, we are guinea pigs, and you are the one misleading people if you pretend otherwise.

Presumably you have stated that you don't want any medical treatment that has been invented in the last 30 years or so? Who knows what the long term effects could be?

[Van wink 2,994]

27 minutes ago, Well b back said:

A bit of news on fourth jabs. What this tells you I reckon is we are all required to catch it and if our numbers have peaked a new jab will be required for over 50’s etc, if they soar it won’t. 
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59915560

 

T cell protection will be the key in the long run