Corona Virus main thread

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

7 minutes ago, Well b back said:

Gosh I just searched it as well and throwing major doubt on our strategy, as is WHO. Hope it doesn’t carry on dropping after 3 weeks. That matches exactly the trial data but 400,000 involved in the 3 weeks.

Do remember though the Oxford 12 weeks, they believe will increase the efficacy, paper to be released shortly.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-real-world-analysis-of-vaccine-in-israel-raises-questions-about-uk-strategy-12192751

 

Yes. Different vaccines work in different ways. Important not to overreact and I remain fully confident that numerous vaccines will  control rhe virus. I'm actually far more worried watching the news of some oldies thinking that they can hug the grandchildren again almost straight away. That's a big jump too far at present.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

3 hours ago, Well b back said:

So now you are gloating about deaths around the world rather than just Europe, you really are a nasty bit of work

Do get off you moral high horse. Since February last year we have had daily comparisons between the UK's performance in dealing with Covid compared to the rest of the world and every day it was bashing Britain. I'm not arguing whether we got it right or not but no one accused you of gloating about deaths in the UK or calling you a nasty piece of work.

Yet the moment we have some good news about the UK, you become a little Hitler, stomping your foot and telling people what they can and can't discuss. We all indulged you on the Sarah thread and kept politics out of it ask you demanded. But that does not happen on this thread. If you don't like it then stick to your Sarah thread.

From the Telegraph:

Last summer the UK and the European Union were locked in fierce negotiations, with both sides refusing to budge.

Behind the scenes, officials from both sides were searching for a landing zone for a potential deal.

Yet the key sticking point was not the level playing field, nor the future of the fishing industry: it was how best to secure vital Covid vaccines.

And unlike the Brexit negotiations, there was to be no last-minute breakthrough. In the second week of July, the UK walked away.

Talks between the two sides began in June, when the UK had already signed deals with AstraZeneca and Pfizer, with agreements for millions more doses in the pipeline.

Officials from the EU offered the UK the chance to join the combined purchasing power of 27 member states, but under a few conditions.

To join, the UK would have to immediately cease all negotiations with any supplier also in talks with the EU. The European Commission would have an exclusive right to negotiate with vaccine manufacturers on our behalf, while the UK, unlike EU Member States, would have no say on which companies to negotiate with, how many doses to buy, at what price and on what delivery schedule.

“We told the EU, we can't participate like this. For a few weeks we tried to negotiate on governance - basically we were saying we would only take part if we had more of a say.

“But the EU wouldn’t move.”

Pressure to join forces with Brussels was intense. Leading scientists had published a letter in the Guardian suggesting that a failure to do so would likely leave the UK in a queue with other non-EU countries to acquire the vaccine after EU member states, and on less-favourable terms.

Little more than six months later, the EU’s rollout is in disarray. Brussels finally approved the purchase of 300 million doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in December, while the UK struck a deal for 30m doses in June.

This country became the first in the world to sign deals with AstraZeneca in May, and accelerated approval of the Oxford vaccine through the MHRA on December 30.

On the Continent, the Oxford vaccine is yet to be approved. After the EU relaxed the rules on member states striking their own deals, the German government has come under fire for lagging behind other countries in accessing the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine - despite BioNTech being a German company.

Meanwhile the Netherlands only began vaccinating on January 6, nearly a month after the UK.

Speaking to Der Spiegel magazine, the inventor of the Pfizer vaccine Uğur Şahin suggested this week that the EU had hedged its bets, and lost.

“The process in Europe certainly didn't proceed as quickly and straightforwardly as with other countries,” he said.

“In part because the European Union isn't directly authorized, and member states also have a say. That can result in a loss of time in a negotiation situation where a strong message is needed.

[Van wink 2,994]

9 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes. Different vaccines work in different ways. Important not to overreact and I remain fully confident that numerous vaccines will  control rhe virus. I'm actually far more worried watching the news of some oldies thinking that they can hug the grandchildren again almost straight away. That's a big jump too far at present.

This is a huge concern both in terms of health risk to those involved and subsequent potential to undermine the vaccine.

[paul moy 235]

11 hours ago, Well b back said:

What’s that got to do with deliveries not turning up and 900 appointments booked ? Do you want them to stand outside until some is delivered ?. Common sense ? Are you saying once a phial is opened you don’t have 6 hours to use it ?
Maybe you could come along and help ?  

 

 

.... because it is very difficult to plan when everything has to be done in a few hours with Pfizer with the constraints outside of -80C, and obviously more easy with Astra as the vaccine can be held for months in a normal fridge. Not obvious to yourself for sure. 😂   Jeez !!

Edited January 20, 2021 by paul moy

[paul moy 235]

So Corbyn would prioritise the rest of the world and is calling on us to give away our precious vaccines :

 

''In an eerie insight into what might have been Britain's coronavirus strategy if Mr Corbyn had won the general election just over a year ago, the former Labour leader attacked the UK and others for purchasing high stocks of life-saving Covid jabs. The proud socialist said Britain and other prosperous nations should limit their supplies to help increase the number of jabs available for poorer countries across the globe.''

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1385623/jeremy-corbyn-news-Covid-vaccine-boris-johnson-coronavirus-UK-latest

 

[Aggy 755]

11 hours ago, Well b back said:

Hi YF

A single dose of Pfizer has always been 52% at 3 weeks. That was the trial result, the saving grace is they are hoping very few will develop severe COVID. In a care home where they have all been vaccinated on Jan 1st that was reported today to date that has stood up, the 2 positives are showing very mild symptoms. The second dose boosts to the 90 - 95 % but that is at the 3 weeks, it was not trialled after that ( remember back to our Oxford monkey experiment ), which changed them all to two doses.
Do you have a link for the Israel 50% be interested if that is exactly as per the trial data, thanks. Here is the BMJ report on Pfizer trials re efficacy. I believe it is only us and Sweden spreading the second dose to date, hope it works as I had Pfizer lol

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4826

 

I believe in some places (looking at this message board) the vaccines are now being given to those in their 70s. But presumably the people in their 80s have still only had one dose at this point?

Is the plan that if we vaccinate, say, all those in their 70s we start to then give second jabs to 80 or 70 year olds a bit earlier before we move down to less vulnerable groups?

Ie; is the plan to give all 70/80 year olds two doses before we start giving less vulnerable people one dose?
 

 

[ricardo 7,395]

11 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I believe in some places (looking at this message board) the vaccines are now being given to those in their 70s. But presumably the people in their 80s have still only had one dose at this point?

Is the plan that if we vaccinate, say, all those in their 70s we start to then give second jabs to 80 or 70 year olds a bit earlier before we move down to less vulnerable groups?

Ie; is the plan to give all 70/80 year olds two doses before we start giving less vulnerable people one dose?
 

 

I think the answer is no. At least that is my understanding.

When all those over 70 have had one dose ( mid Feb) they plan to start on the next group down. People who are now being vaccinated will be getting an appointment for there second dose in 12 weeks time.

I believe you make your appointment for the second dose when you have your first. I will let you know Saturday if this is indeed the case.

Edited January 20, 2021 by ricardo

[Barry Brockes 147]

A friend of mine was booked in for both vaccinations when his surgery rang him last week so perhaps there are no hard and fast rules on the subject.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

A chap told me, his wife was classed as vulnerable so had the jab at our Surgery and as someone had not turned up, he at 74 was offered and given the jab.

Yesterday he told me he had had his second when my 83 year old neighbour hasn't had one yet.

The promise of a month ago is diminishing.

[ricardo 7,395]

1 minute ago, keelansgrandad said:

A chap told me, his wife was classed as vulnerable so had the jab at our Surgery and as someone had not turned up, he at 74 was offered and given the jab.

Yesterday he told me he had had his second when my 83 year old neighbour hasn't had one yet.

The promise of a month ago is diminishing.

Sounds like they are being sensible and not wasting stuff when people don't turn up.

There are different numbers of age ranges in different areas so it is understanderble that groups will overlap in the timing of their jab. I'm in group three and some parts of the country have already started on group four. Seems like a sensible flexible approach to me.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

9 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Sounds like they are being sensible and not wasting stuff when people don't turn up.

There are different numbers of age ranges in different areas so it is understanderble that groups will overlap in the timing of their jab. I'm in group three and some parts of the country have already started on group four. Seems like a sensible flexible approach to me.

I'm not blaming anyone except our Surgery Ricardo. They do have a history of poor admin. We phoned the Surgery on behalf of poor old Tom and were told "OK we will add him to the list".

Of course it can't be easy with ordering nd delivery but in terms of the admin of recipients, I would have thought any half decent IT person could have provided a spread sheet with the Groups in order.

[Van wink 2,994]

12 hours ago, Well b back said:

Gosh I just searched it as well and throwing major doubt on our strategy, as is WHO. Hope it doesn’t carry on dropping after 3 weeks. That matches exactly the trial data but 400,000 involved in the 3 weeks.

Do remember though the Oxford 12 weeks, they believe will increase the efficacy, paper to be released shortly.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-real-world-analysis-of-vaccine-in-israel-raises-questions-about-uk-strategy-12192751

Vallance saying that the figures achieved on one shot in clinical trials unlikely to be achieved in the real world but doubted efficacy is as low as quoted from Israel. 

[Aggy 755]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I think the answer is no. At least that is my understanding.

When all those over 70 have had one dose ( mid Feb) they plan to start on the next group down. People who are now being vaccinated will be getting an appointment for there second dose in 12 weeks time.

I believe you make your appointment for the second dose when you have your first. I will let you know Saturday if this is indeed the case.

I think you do make your second appointment when you have your first. My grandparents had their first dose just before Christmas but the appointment for the second one has now been cancelled so there is a longer gap between their two doses. I’m not sure whether they’ve got a new date.

If you’re right about moving down to the next group, how far down do they go? Is there a cut off point? Healthy 20 year olds won’t be getting one dose when 80 year olds haven’t had their second?

25 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I'm not blaming anyone except our Surgery Ricardo. They do have a history of poor admin. We phoned the Surgery on behalf of poor old Tom and were told "OK we will add him to the list".

Of course it can't be easy with ordering nd delivery but in terms of the admin of recipients, I would have thought any half decent IT person could have provided a spread sheet with the Groups in order.

WBB said something like 17 per cent of appointments for vaccines are no shows. If they’re having to ring round at the last minute to avoid wasting a dose then there will be some instances (and quite a lot if nearly a fifth of appointments are bailed on) where younger people get a dose before older.
 

If an 83 year old has an appointment for next week, they aren’t going to ring him today to come to a last minute appointment, otherwise they’re going to have to fill the appointment next week as well. So makes sense that someone lower down (who probably hasn’t  got an appointment yet) is filled into the last minute slot.

Edited January 20, 2021 by Aggy

[ricardo 7,395]

 There are bound to be anomolies but the main thing is to get as many done in as short a time as possible. The no shows and anti vaxxers obviously cause problems but it is a tremendous national logistical effort and rather than carping about the inevitable anomolies we should be praising all those involved in this roll out. Yes, a few might get done out of turn but it is the bigger picture that really matters.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

I think the answer is no. At least that is my understanding.

When all those over 70 have had one dose ( mid Feb) they plan to start on the next group down. People who are now being vaccinated will be getting an appointment for there second dose in 12 weeks time.

I believe you make your appointment for the second dose when you have your first. I will let you know Saturday if this is indeed the case.

My Mum had her first jab in our local surgery on Saturday and they gave her a little card to bring back in when she goes for number 2 - presumably just belt and braces to make sure she gets the same stuff.

But no news at all as to when the second jab will be other than between 4 and 12 weeks time, which I assume means 12 weeks unless they find themselves with a few spare that they need to use up quickly. Although that seems fairly unlikely - they were getting through people pretty quickly whilst obviously monitoring the flow of people against available doses very closely, so ending up with spare vaccine there seems unlikely.

So all in all I was very impressed with the very effective (and friendly) way the surgery was handling it but I suspect that supply line of vaccine to them is a lot less smooth.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

59 minutes ago, Aggy said:

I think you do make your second appointment when you have your first. My grandparents had their first dose just before Christmas but the appointment for the second one has now been cancelled so there is a longer gap between their two doses. I’m not sure whether they’ve got a new date.

If you’re right about moving down to the next group, how far down do they go? Is there a cut off point? Healthy 20 year olds won’t be getting one dose when 80 year olds haven’t had their second?

WBB said something like 17 per cent of appointments for vaccines are no shows. If they’re having to ring round at the last minute to avoid wasting a dose then there will be some instances (and quite a lot if nearly a fifth of appointments are bailed on) where younger people get a dose before older.
 

If an 83 year old has an appointment for next week, they aren’t going to ring him today to come to a last minute appointment, otherwise they’re going to have to fill the appointment next week as well. So makes sense that someone lower down (who probably hasn’t  got an appointment yet) is filled into the last minute slot.

Except he hasn't had a letter of invitation yet.

I fully understand that they have to make use of the vaccine. No problems with that. Its the Surgery admin, that since I posted earlier, I have been told by a friend that his 80 year old father, recovering from a stroke, hasn't had his letter yet.

You can say there will be glitches but I don't accept that. Thete is no reason why anyone over 80 isn't on the first list.

[Yellow Fever 3,785]

4 hours ago, Van wink said:

This is a huge concern both in terms of health risk to those involved and subsequent potential to undermine the vaccine.

Yes VW Its pure ignorance of the risks both to yourself and others.

Being vaccinated doesn't as yet mean you can't spread it.

And in Israel was it 17% of most badly effected by CV19 had had a single shot at least.

Give the vaccine plus a very stern warning of what NOT to do.

Never underestimate the  idiocy of the general public !

[ricardo 7,395]

National

39905 - 1820

worst yet

Local

Vax highest yet. I understand earlier figures were lower because Scotland and Wales do not report weekend figures. With today we must be close to 5 million

 

[Herman 9,765]

Bloody hell!! 😡

[CANARYKING 638]

Pushing 100,000 

[Van wink 2,994]

😥

[Van wink 2,994]

Things not good in Aylsham and surround.

[ricardo 7,395]

Looks like North Norfolk is very low now.

[paul moy 235]

6 hours ago, ricardo said:

Sounds like they are being sensible and not wasting stuff when people don't turn up.

There are different numbers of age ranges in different areas so it is understanderble that groups will overlap in the timing of their jab. I'm in group three and some parts of the country have already started on group four. Seems like a sensible flexible approach to me.

If it was the Pfizer jab they have to use it within five days or throw it away so that really makes sense if so.  Astra does not have that limitation.

[paul moy 235]

22 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

The death rate is published for the last 14 days and a formula is used to calculate it. So all the factors you mention are taken into account.

No... not all countries use the same standard formula, as has been said for months. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by paul moy

[Barry Brockes 147]

Presumably Ricardo the weekend vax figures for Scotland and Wales are included in today's numbers?

[ricardo 7,395]

4 minutes ago, Barry Brockes said:

Presumably Ricardo the weekend vax figures for Scotland and Wales are included in today's numbers?

I think you will find that the report is 2 days behind, hence todays is actually for Monday and the two low days were Sat and Sun where there is incomplete reporting. The numbers for the previous week seem to confirm this.

[benchwarmer 625]

Infection rates have begun to fall.  It's six weeks since vaccinations started, so probably a combination of vaccine and shutdown. 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by benchwarmer

[Essjayess 307]

50 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Infection rates have begun to fall.  It's six weeks since vaccinations started, so probably a combination of vaccine and shutdown. 

 

Yes, that is at last a small bit of positive although there is a mighty long way to go before it will seem under control. Plus, the two worst aspects of Covid, deaths and hospital admissions, are still rising and at a truly horrible level, we can all but hope that the peak  for those two things are very close now and that in the not to distant future we start to see a decrease in those to.

[Barbe bleu 826]

15 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Yes, that is at last a small bit of positive although there is a mighty long way to go before it will seem under control. Plus, the two worst aspects of Covid, deaths and hospital admissions, are still rising and at a truly horrible level, we can all but hope that the peak  for those two things are very close now and that in the not to distant future we start to see a decrease in those to.

I think hospital admissions are falling. Seem to have peaked on 12 January.   In hospital numbers still increasing though.

I suspect we have turned a corner on this now but if anything  thats all the more to reason to be sensible.