Corona Virus main thread

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

6 minutes ago, Bill said:

Advisors advice, goverments govern

The Cygnus recommendations were buried leaving a dire shortage of PPE and planning.

As much it can be claimed that the current mess is down to incompetence. A buffoon as PM appointing low grade ministers, it is the ideology behind those cuts that has led to this. The same ideology that has caused the lower police and fire staff.

There is nothing about hindsight here - but the inevitable consequence of that dogma - much as the cost cutting saw thw Herald of Free Enterprise capsize in 1987

And it wasn't hindsight when I pointed out the hypocricy of many who were clapping nurses - it just required others to catch up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9FeXzpRQZ8

Cygnus took place in 2016. Boris became PM with a working majority  in December 2019. So any lessons from Cygnus would have been taken during the tenure of Theresa May, who I would admit is probably the most incompetent PM we have ever had. That is where the responsibility lies for ignoring recommendations from Cygnus

[Essjayess 307]

38 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Sweden government under fire for inaction too....

Anger in Sweden as elderly pay price for coronavirus strategy

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/19/anger-in-sweden-as-elderly-pay-price-for-coronavirus-strategy?

Japan to is starting to pay the price for inaction, just Abe's plea the day after the Olympics for the populace to practice social distancing, which it has completely ignored, due to the inbred doctrine within each Japanese person that work is the be all and end all to life. Almost zero testing for a population of 130 million, plus a health system that makes the NHS look better than Germany's. I have read countless articles in last few weeks on Japan, this recent one is very much what ive seen from them all. link below.

Also Singapore,s confirmed cases have risen sharply this past week and a new outbreak in Harbin, China.  The virus has not done with Asia, only Taiwan and S. Korea have had any measure of control, China i cant say...who knows the real truth there. But generally, Asia has huge virus issues, its only just begun .

https://apnews.com/9140ddd7283d534d8464778d9c4bd92a

[ricardo 7,448]

If only those countries hadn't been so bloody nationalistic when we were preparing.

Good Morning Europe

Coronavirus: French protective mask manufacturer scraps NHS order to keep masks in France

52

Comments

By Ryan Thompson  •  last updated: 06/03/2020

 

A family doctor in France wears a protective face mask as a preventive measure against the spread of COVID-19   -   Copyright  AF

 

France has forced a face mask manufacturer to cancel a major UK order as the coronavirus-inspired scramble for protective gear intensifies.

The National Health Service ordered millions of masks from Valmy SAS near Lyon earlier this year as COVID-19 threatened.

 

But amid a global shortage, France earlier this week ordered the requisition of all protective masks made in the country.

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It comes after the World Health Organisation warned a mask shortfall was leaving doctors "dangerously ill-equipped" to look after COVID-19 patients.

"We are facing a big problem: who to prioritise" explained company director Nicolas Brillat. "The requisition does not allow any wiggle room for us to deliver to the NHS, but it is complicated because the NHS was the first client to order and uses our masks all year long."

The disposable protection has become harder to find and more expensive to buy since the COVID-19 outbreak in early January.

 

Thousands of masks have also been stolen from hospitals in Paris and Marseille.

But, under the requisition order, medical supplies will be distributed to French pharmacies and hospitals.

Valmy SAS has also increased production to make 10 times more masks than usual.

"We had to find solutions, find people, integrate them, train them, dispatch them on the machines, and get the new teams going," added Brillat.

 

[sonyc 5,542]

There are many stories of large manufacturers and smaller companies willing to make masks. Not Burberry or Barbour either. There are local solutions for every care home and medical facility. Needs  logistics expertise.

Edited April 19, 2020 by sonyc

[Van wink 2,994]

31 minutes ago, ricardo said:

if only we had made some preparation

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france

This isn’t the only occasion. I hope to see much more reliance on local supply chains when this is eventually under control, when the chips are down it’s every man for himself.

[sonyc 5,542]

Just now, Van wink said:

This isn’t the only occasion. I hope to see much more reliance on local supply chains when this is eventually under control, when the chips are down it’s every man for himself.

Just my point made now VW. Local solutions are the most elegant and nimble. Always have been, especially in such a national crisis where decisions have to be drawn bluntly.

[Bill 1,788]

2 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

Cygnus took place in 2016. Boris became PM with a working majority  in December 2019. So any lessons from Cygnus would have been taken during the tenure of Theresa May, who I would admit is probably the most incompetent PM we have ever had. That is where the responsibility lies for ignoring recommendations from Cygnus

Thank you, as that was the point I made earlier.

It was Tory dogma over making cuts to the emergency services which has been one of the major causes of this current failure. Johnson became PM in July 2019, why not then address this matter ?

But he did make this claim

" “And so I am announcing now – on the steps of Downing Street – that we will fix the crisis in social care once and for all, and with a clear plan we have prepared to give every older person the dignity and security they deserve.”  however by November

" a Tory cabinet minister admitted there was not even consensus within the government on how to solve the adult social care funding crisis, despite Johnson’s announcement in Downing Street in July. " and in January he

" admitted he does not have a worked-up plan to end the social care crisis and that a solution could be five years away. "

Another example of a man who will spout out any crowd pleasing guff (lies), without the intention or ability to carry them out. And as to why he absented himself from those meetings, I give you this article from the ever lefty Daily Mail. Which echoes the understanding that there is nothing of substance behind this overweight windbag

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233835/Boris-Johnson-missed-five-Cobra-meetings-coronavirus.html

[Van wink 2,994]

14 minutes ago, sonyc said:

There are many stories of large manufacturers and smaller companies willing to make masks. Not Burberry or Barbour either. There are local solutions for every care home and medical facility. Needs  logistics expertise.

There have been many stories but we don’t really know the full details do we? As you say it’s logistics and also capacity within the executive that’s required. Most care homes are privately run aren’t they, should they have been making their own preparations?

Edited April 19, 2020 by Van wink

[ricardo 7,448]

9 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Just my point made now VW. Local solutions are the most elegant and nimble. Always have been, especially in such a national crisis where decisions have to be drawn bluntly.

Amazing how countries national interests take priority at times of crisis.

Who would have guessed.

[Badger 2,418]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Amazing how countries national interests take priority at times of crisis.

Who would have guessed.

Not amazing at all - entirely predictable. That's why the Council of Ministers was the ruling body of the EU not the Commission or the Parliament. Perhaps not on this thread...😁

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

23 hours ago, SHRIMPER said:

This far in and our girl still has not been tested and she is a front line nurse..In London

Same for both of our daughters in Leeds.

My nephew working with potential symptons as a Junior Doctor in A&E  was repeatedly refused a test at his own hospital and eventually had to drive 40 miles to another hospital where a consultant had managed to organise a test for him - it was positive.

This is stupidity on a grand scale and no wonder really that the daily 'briefings' are actually little more than daily fairy tales.

Still it appears that some areas of the media are beginning to get a grip - even the Times is now piling in and demolishing the underlying fairy tale that the 'government is being guided by the science and acting on expert advice'. I didn't believe it at the time and it seems that even normally reliable Tory supporting papers are realising that it's just not a sustainble line any more (I although I doubt that will worry the Daily Express, they can just carry on making their own stuff up as usual).

 

[sonyc 5,542]

Local government exists precisely so that the national government can implement locally. Such disregard it appears. Only two days ago did Jenrick throw a sardine of £1.6bn ....in response, repeat, in response to outcries that LAs were experiencing financial crisis...it didn't feel like it had been planned.

I realise this brings us back to Germany (didn't want to) and their structures.

[Van wink 2,994]

4 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Local government exists precisely so that the national government can implement locally. Such disregard it appears. Only two days ago did Jenrick throw a sardine of £1.6bn ....in response, repeat, in response to outcries that LAs were experiencing financial crisis...it didn't feel like it had been planned.

I realise this brings us back to Germany (didn't want to) and their structures.

I have heard mention of local residence teams but have not researched them. My assumption is they are multi agency groups that can action at a local level?

[ricardo 7,448]

6k cases in Russia today. Looks like the next hot spot.

[sonyc 5,542]

Just now, Van wink said:

I have heard mention of local residence teams but have not researched them. My assumption is they are multi agency groups that can action at a local level?

Can only speak for my area (exiled in the Bradford district) but yes, the response, including communication and via local press has been very constructive. 

[Van wink 2,994]

Just now, sonyc said:

Can only speak for my area (exiled in the Bradford district) but yes, the response, including communication and via local press has been very constructive. 

Sorry that should be local resilience teams! 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 minutes ago, ricardo said:

6k cases in Russia today. Looks like the next hot spot.

Don’t tell Mr Putin 

[sonyc 5,542]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Sorry that should be local resilience teams! 

I knew what you meant anyway

[Creative Midfielder 2,004]

14 hours ago, sonyc said:

Thanks Herman & Yellow Fever.

It's difficult to respond on this site this evening.

There are a reported 6000 care home deaths not yet included in the overall total (France have recently added their total). The UK could yet be the worst in Europe and we did have those precious week's and days to watch and learn.

I fear things are about to get a whole lot worse in the NHS as the trust in government leadership  is ebbing away with the PPE issue, let alone testing and deaths of NHS staff. There are senior Tory ministers also asking questions. You worry about morale and burnout given the pressures.

Those graphs showing reductions are encouraging yet we hear from the media such a different story from those hard pressed workers... Anger, frustration, bitterness.

I read lots of very informed opinion on here about the numbers and modelling. What has amazed me is the sheer lack of comment about the leadership (the other thread has a small amount of discussion). I feel as if I'm on an island.

Perhaps folk here are happy or accepting of it all or people feel it's unseemly to criticise in the middle of an emergency, or they feel it achieves nothing to debate. Or, people feel everyone would just take on their political affiliations. Talking of numbers is easier and less contentious.

I am sensing a sea change anyway in public feeling....in myself too. I am starting to have a sense of being played by this government and I consider myself moderate, thoughtful. And I want to be wrong about my thoughts on the shortcomings of this cabinet which I'm finding shallow and lacking in depth but also mendacious in their public statements.

Agree with all of that and sadly I believe that there are also a large number of deaths at home (as opposed to care home) which are not included in that 6,000 and possibly never will be - there are multiple reports of doctors being unwilling to put Covid on the death certificate as of course most of these are people who have never been tested or even seen by a doctor prior to passing away.

I would also consider myself to be moderate and thoughful although I won't pretend that I've ever been moderate in my opinion of this government which IMO are unquestionably the worst in my lifetime (and I dimly remember our cup run of 1959!).

But none of this is to do with the government's politics, it is about their concern (or lack of it) for the well-being of UK citizens and their competence and leadership (or lack of it) in dealing with the greatest crisis to hit us since............. probably depends on your point of view exactly when but its a hell of a long time ago!

IMO they've failed both those tests abysmally.

 

[Bill 1,788]

11 minutes ago, ricardo said:

12 minutes ago, ricardo said:

The National Health Service ordered millions of masks from Valmy SAS near Lyon earlier this year as COVID-19 threatened.

 

Earlier this year ?

But why did they do that ? After all di you not tell us that

"" Health Minister chairs COBRA meeting on health matters when experts rate Cov 19 fears low to moderate. "

So when Johnson was dodging out of his responsibility because the virus was supposedly low risk the NHS was ordering a million masks. Did they not think to tell COBRA this ? Did COBRA not review stuff like this ?

If the guff Johnson spouted here is anything to go by then no, they most likely did not

"Johnson, it seemed, still had Brexit and free trade much more on his mind. Any hint of draconian action to fight coronavirus that might hurt the economy was the last thing he was entertaining.

In a speech on Brexit in Greenwich on 3 February, he made clear his views on Wuhan-style lockdowns. “We are starting to hear some bizarre autarkic rhetoric,” he said, “when barriers are going up, and when there is a risk that new diseases such as coronavirus will trigger a panic and a desire for market segregation that go beyond what is medically rational to the point of doing real and unnecessary economic damage.

“Then, at that moment, humanity needs some government somewhere that is willing at least to make the case powerfully for freedom of exchange, some country ready to take off its Clark Kent spectacles and leap into the phone booth and emerge with its cloak flowing as the supercharged champion of the right of the populations of the Earth to buy and sell freely among each other.”

Dangerous tub thumping nonsense. The kind that has pretty much defined Johnson's life - both political and personal, and reminds me of this WW1 poem by Sassoon

“Good-morning, good-morning!” the General said

When we met him last week on our way to the line.

Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of 'em dead,

And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.

“He's a cheery old card,” grunted Harry to Jack

As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.

,,,,,

But he did for them both by his plan of attack."

 

50 plus medical staff and over 15,000 others ..........and counting

 

[ricardo 7,448]

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

Earlier this year ?

But why did they do that ? After all di you not tell us that

 

 

I reckon they must have been making timely preparation. You know, the sort of thing the Times report said wasn't  happening😉

[ricardo 7,448]

21 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Can only speak for my area (exiled in the Bradford district) but yes, the response, including communication and via local press has been very constructive. 

You'd  never guess it though.😉

[Indy 3,352]

VW....

84% of Care homes in the U.K. are privately owned, charging anywhere from £700 - £2000 per week. 
Yet the media would have you believe that  it is the governments fault that they do not have adequate PPE.

 Why are the media so against the government, they are trying to do the best possible job and certainly have brought a nation together👏🏻

Rule Britannia 🇬🇧
 

Just a post from linked in which I agree with, years of care homes making thousands from people now bleating they don’t have ppe!, exactly why I can’t be arsed with the media, they like some people live on sensationalising everything, yet never ask the question, what are the care home owners doing to request and even pay towards PPE? It’s no always the government’s fault.

Edited April 19, 2020 by Indy

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

A consignment of personal protective equipment (PPE) is not expected to arrive in the UK today after all.

The government had said on Saturday that 84 tonnes of PPE, including 400,000 gowns, would arrive in the UK from Turkey today, following concerns that hospitals would run out of protective garments this weekend.

I  have no reason to believe that the spokesperson for the garment industry was lying when they said they had offered their spare capacity to the Government for making PPE and hadn't had replies.

It is obvious that just in time works for some industries but not the NHS in a crisis. We must start making use of local industry from this point on.

I found it outrageous when the spokesperson for the growing industry, in reply to a question why 180 Eastern Europeans had been flown in, said tha ttheir productivity was higher. There may be data that proves that but in reality it is because overall they are cheaper and will 20 to a carvan.

[Yellow Fever 3,860]

1 hour ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Still it appears that some areas of the media are beginning to get a grip - even the Times is now piling in and demolishing the underlying fairy tale that the 'government is being guided by the science and acting on expert advice'. I didn't believe it at the time and it seems that even normally reliable Tory supporting papers are realising that it's just not a sustainble line any more (I although I doubt that will worry the Daily Express, they can just carry on making their own stuff up as usual).

 

 

The really devastating thing for the government is that they have to keep repeating  "government is being guided by the science and acting on expert advice".

I guess that's not normal for them and quite unusual by inference.

 

Other countries would take that as a given

Edited April 19, 2020 by Yellow Fever
I hope your daughter is Ok.

[ricardo 7,448]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

 

The really devastating thing for the government is that they have to keep repeating  "government is being guided by the science and acting on expert advice".

I guess that's not normal for them and quite unusual by inference.

 

Other countries would take that as a given

So what do you think would happen if they say they refuse to be guided by expert advice.

[T 190]

The public would support and elect them if previous is anything to go by. 

[Barbe bleu 838]

3 hours ago, T said:

The experts agree you need emergency planning, testing, tracing, isolating, PPE. Ventilators and a vaccine. But what do experts know. We should just ignore them according to the right wing nationalists  who feebly try to argue experts disagree. as nationalism is more important. Shabby attempt to deflect and deny their culpability and contribution to this mess. Time they changed their priorities and apologised but absolutely no sign of that from Trump and the right wing nationalists on here. 

T,   would you agree that it was primarily the '"right wing nationalists" who were calling for more and not less government action at the start of this? 

Would you also agree that you argued that our government was taking the expert advice, that no lockdown was needed against this 'mild disease's  and the politicians should stay out of it?

 

[Bill 1,788]

50 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I reckon they must have been making timely preparation. You know, the sort of thing the Times report said wasn't  happening😉

Yes, thankfully

however there is only so much they can do, and

"We have talked to scientists, academics, doctors, emergency planners, public officials and politicians about the root of the crisis and whether the government should have known sooner and acted more swiftly to kick-start the Whitehall machine and put the NHS onto a war footing.

They told us that, contrary to the official line, Britain was in a poor state of readiness for a pandemic. Emergency stockpiles of PPE had severely dwindled and gone out of date after becoming a low priority in the years of austerity cuts. The training to prepare key workers for a pandemic had been put on hold for two years while contingency planning was diverted to deal with a possible no-deal Brexit

that almost indifference to the upcoming pandemic can be seen

"It was a message repeated throughout February, but the warnings appear to have fallen on deaf ears. The need, for example, to boost emergency supplies of protective masks and gowns for health workers was pressing, but little progress was made in obtaining the items from manufacturers, mainly in China.

Instead, the government sent supplies the other way — shipping 279,000 items of its depleted stockpile of protective equipment to China during this period in response to a request for help from the authorities there."

Evidence that refutes your absurd Parrot Sketch attempts at denying what is blatantly obvious. Stop embarrasing yourself Ricardo you are just becoming more detached from reality with each new post.

 

[ricardo 7,448]

3 minutes ago, Bill said:

 

Instead, the government sent supplies the other way — shipping 279,000 items of its depleted stockpile of protective equipment to China during this period in response to a request for help from the authorities there."

 

 

Yes, who would have thought it from this RWN government.😉 helping another country when they were desperate.

Should stand us in good stead with our Chinese suppliers for our next order.