New Labour Leader

[Daz Sparks 1,182]

8 minutes ago, Bill said:

and his band of 3rd rate ministers

Sh*t, have I missed the fact the cabinet have been upgraded?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, Daz Sparks said:

Sh*t, have I missed the fact the cabinet have been upgraded?

A 3rd Rate Cabinet is probably Ikea standard. I'm afraid this lot are MFI.

[Bill 1,788]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

A 3rd Rate Cabinet is probably Ikea standard. I'm afraid this lot are MFI.

[BroadstairsR 2,202]

Blimey not even a bye election has any meaning this early into a government's term, let alone some poll or other.

I enjoyed Blackford's wriggling when asked to explain why he voted for a no deal.

I didn't mind Starmer at first, a bit wooden but perhaps needed after the influence of the lanolin infested Islington set.

He's hardly grown into the job by making much of an impact though. Perhaps needed after the blatant attention seeking of McDonald and his little red book. 

The fact that he seems to have had a personality bypass, an empty taxi turned up and out stepped Kier Starmer sort of thing, is perhaps needed to contradict Johnson's theatricals. 

He was quite personable on Desert Island Discs though.

I'm hoping that he's keeping the seat warm for young Lisa Nandy. A very bright, sincere Northern lass. She would win the so-called northern red wall back for Labour more easily than Sir Kier Rodney Starmer, KCB. QC., and she probably wouldn't even need two elections to do it.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

21 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Blimey not even a bye election has any meaning this early into a government's term, let alone some poll or other.

I enjoyed Blackford's wriggling when asked to explain why he voted for a no deal.

I didn't mind Starmer at first, a bit wooden but perhaps needed after the influence of the lanolin infested Islington set.

He's hardly grown into the job by making much of an impact though. Perhaps needed after the blatant attention seeking of McDonald and his little red book. 

The fact that he seems to have had a personality bypass, an empty taxi turned up and out stepped Kier Starmer sort of thing, is perhaps needed to contradict Johnson's theatricals. 

He was quite personable on Desert Island Discs though.

I'm hoping that he's keeping the seat warm for young Lisa Nandy. A very bright, sincere Northern lass. She would win the so-called northern red wall back for Labour more easily than Sir Kier Rodney Starmer, KCB. QC., and she probably wouldn't even need two elections to do it.

 

I voted for Nandy in the leadership election. Apart from policies, its about time the Party had a woman leader.

[Bill 1,788]

21 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

Blimey not even a bye election has any meaning this early into a government's term, let alone some poll or other.

I enjoyed Blackford's wriggling when asked to explain why he voted for a no deal.

oh dear, bedstains

same vocabulary, and same twisting of the story as another crank

hmmm 🤔

[Well b back 3,274]

Is this a cunning plan or a car crash waiting to happen

UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

In his immediate reaction to Boris Johnson's address on Monday night, Starmer told BBC News: "Now is the time to support this package, pull together and try do everything we can to try and make this work."

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 hours ago, Well b back said:

Is this a cunning plan or a car crash waiting to happen

UK Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer will make a televised statement responding to the prime minister's announcement of a new lockdown for England at 19:00 GMT on BBC1, the party says.

In his immediate reaction to Boris Johnson's address on Monday night, Starmer told BBC News: "Now is the time to support this package, pull together and try do everything we can to try and make this work."

Car crash. Its no use babbling on about unity and support. We have to lump it as we have done all year.

He should be telling the nation how incompetent this Government and its leader is.

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

3 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Car crash. Its no use babbling on about unity and support. We have to lump it as we have done all year.

He should be telling the nation how incompetent this Government and its leader is.

Yep, complete car crash.

Very disappointing after what was IMO a very promising start - sorted out some of the internal party issues and repeatedly showed up Johnson as the idiot and liar that he is at PMQs - ok, so that isn't too difficult but nevertheless he did it and he did it well.

But faced with the nitty gritty of voting in the HoC he seems to have morphed back into Jeremy Corbyn - an absolute masterclass in how the official Opposition can fail to oppose an incompetent and failing government and end up bickering amongst themselves - and frankly only amongst themselves because I can't see many people taking them seriously as the Opposition for the next four years, never mind as a Government in waiting.

[BigFish 1,988]

Really, Johnson has an 80 seat majority and the next election is possibly nearly 4 years out. That is little politically that SKS can do beyond acting as as a critical friend to the government during an emergency and avoiding any political bear traps the Tories set. There aren't many in the Johnson core support built on Brexit voters who are ready, willing or able to change their voting intentions any time soon, so to be neck and neck in opinion polls at this point is an achievement in itself.

Edited January 6, 2021 by BigFish

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

6 hours ago, BigFish said:

Really, Johnson has an 80 seat majority and the next election is possibly nearly 4 years out. That is little politically that SKS can do beyond acting as as a critical friend to the government during an emergency and avoiding any political bear traps the Tories set. There aren't many in the Johnson core support built on Brexit voters who are ready, willing or able to change their voting intentions any time soon, so to be neck and neck in opinion polls at this point is an achievement in itself.

Of course you are right in the sense that there is nothing that SKS can realistically do that will lead to an election, and a potentiall change of government, prior to 2024. Its entirely possible, I would say likely, that we will see a change (or two) of PM prior to 2024 but that will probbly make SKS's job harder rather easier.

My concern over Starmer's mistakes is twofold; Johnson and this utterly inept Government have a huge amount of baggage and are extremely vulnerable to attack on a great many fronts but IMO the next four years will be dominated by three major (and obvious issues) the handling and fall-out from the pandemic, Brexit and the economy which is closely linked to both and which dominated every election I can remember bar 2017 & 2019.

But as far as I can see SKS is going to be fatally hobbled in the many debates and battles ahead because no matter what he says from now on he isn't going to be allowed be move passed the fact that he backed some of the worst decisions of the Johnson government, and based on what SKS has said so far he doesn't actually have much at all to offer other than being less thick than Johnson - on that basis maybe you and I should throw our hats into ring 😀

My second concern is that if you look at the election arithmetic its clear that even a stellar performance by SKS which could deliver Labour more seats than the Tories is still very unlikely to give him an overall majority - that can only be delivered by some sort of alliance with other opposition parties - and within the last few weeks Starmer has alienated all of them. Four years is a long time and of course things can change but I think the chances of Starmer leading an alliance into the 2024 GE have plumetted - far more likely IMO is that we will see a flow of Labour members and voters to the SNP, Greens, and Plaid which has been happening in small numbers for a while - I think those numbers will increase considerably before the next GE

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

What's the worst job in British politics? It probably has to be Leader of the Scottish Labour Party. Richard Leonards resignation today means the next incumbent will be the seventh incumbent since the SNP wrested control of the country from Labour.

Who does Starmer appoint next? A leftie to go high-heeled toe-to-toe with Nicola Sturgeon or does he go for a mainstream personality in Starmers's own image? Can he use Scotland as a testing ground for his policies in the rest of the UK or is Scotland a lost cause for Labour?  An interesting dilemma for the Labour leader.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

What's the worst job in British politics? It probably has to be Leader of the Scottish Labour Party. Richard Leonards resignation today means the next incumbent will be the seventh incumbent since the SNP wrested control of the country from Labour.

Who does Starmer appoint next? A leftie to go high-heeled toe-to-toe with Nicola Sturgeon or does he go for a mainstream personality in Starmers's own image? Can he use Scotland as a testing ground for his policies in the rest of the UK or is Scotland a lost cause for Labour?  An interesting dilemma for the Labour leader.

Not when Scotland leaves the Union. And joins the EU.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

Poor old Sir KneeTrembler. It's been three weeks since anyone last mentioned the fella. About time he had a little airing.

 

Sir Keir announces a plan that Labour are going to focus on The Flag and Patriotism in order to win back voters.

 

That will upset a few on here!😀

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Poor old Sir KneeTrembler. It's been three weeks since anyone last mentioned the fella. About time he had a little airing.

 

Sir Keir announces a plan that Labour are going to focus on The Flag and Patriotism in order to win back voters.

 

That will upset a few on here!😀

He isn't popular with party members particularly but the public seem to like him. 

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

36 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

He isn't popular with party members particularly but the public seem to like him. 

Despite the banter, it's the right approach for him as working people are patriotic. He has to take on the wokists at some point in time, and although they tend to be the activists, he'd be better off without them. 

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

He isn't popular with party members particularly but the public seem to like him. 

Yes they do but then it would be truly scary if the pulbic didn't like him relative to the most untrustworthy and incompetent PM (and government generally) we've ever had in this country.

But even so I still don't detect much real enthusiasm for him - very early in his leadership I think there was a burst of genuine optimism at his performance but that has long since evaporated as the opposition seems to have regressed into Corbyn style indecision and inactivity.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

Despite the banter, it's the right approach for him as working people are patriotic. He has to take on the wokists at some point in time, and although they tend to be the activists, he'd be better off without them. 

But in any party, its the activists that make policy. They turn up to LCPs and then through remit, get to make or change policy at conference.

With the Tories, that is normally fait a compli. But Labour have often had leaders who will not be bound by conference. Remember Kinnock and his two fingers to Degsy and crew. 

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Yes they do but then it would be truly scary if the pulbic didn't like him relative to the most untrustworthy and incompetent PM (and government generally) we've ever had in this country.

But even so I still don't detect much real enthusiasm for him - very early in his leadership I think there was a burst of genuine optimism at his performance but that has long since evaporated as the opposition seems to have regressed into Corbyn style indecision and inactivity.

I think the non party public are sick and tired of Parliament to be honest. And why not? A Government whose leader lies and some incompetent ministers and an ineffectual opposition (anyone remember the Lib Dems) with a completely new and inexperienced shadow cabinet.

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

41 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

But in any party, its the activists that make policy. They turn up to LCPs and then through remit, get to make or change policy at conference.

With the Tories, that is normally fait a compli. But Labour have often had leaders who will not be bound by conference. Remember Kinnock and his two fingers to Degsy and crew. 

I think the non party public are sick and tired of Parliament to be honest. And why not? A Government whose leader lies and some incompetent ministers and an ineffectual opposition (anyone remember the Lib Dems) with a completely new and inexperienced shadow cabinet.

Can't really argue with any of that 🙄

[ricardo 7,397]

On 02/01/2021 at 22:00, Bill said:

Ricardo must have missed that, as he is usually so quick of the mark with polls

 

 

Since you ask, here's a few that aren't 6 weeks out of date.

Pay your money and take your choice.

Edited February 5, 2021 by ricardo

[Jools 584]

🙃

[BigFish 1,988]

1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Since you ask, here's a few that aren't 6 weeks out of date.

Pay your money and take your choice.

Johnson seeing a vacine bounce. He also saw a Brexit bounce that evaporated within six months. Expect his approval ratings to go up over the next couple of months before falling back again. Prof Curtice is expecting the May locals to be pretty inconclusive & these figures pretty much lead to another hung Parliament.

[Herman 9,820]

Interesting and agreeable speech today but not enough to win over anyone at the moment. I'm not really sure why it was held today to be fair. 

[Yellow Fever 3,821]

On 05/02/2021 at 17:31, Jools said:

🙃

Forgot to add

Being gullible with Jools 🙂

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

The new leader bounce is over. Normally an opposition party would be well ahead midway through an unpopular government term  but there is just no desire to see a Labour government in Westminster. They may do well in the local elections as voters allow themselves a protest vote in a meaningless competition but Labour's big problem is they've gone from knowing exactly what a ideology-toxic Corbyn government would look like (and saying, no thanks) to having no idea what a Starmer government stands for.  Announcing increasing a business loans scheme and reissuing new bonds are worthy but dull policies that lack the passion and principles on which to build a winning agenda.

[Creative Midfielder 2,002]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The new leader bounce is over. Normally an opposition party would be well ahead midway through an unpopular government term  but there is just no desire to see a Labour government in Westminster. They may do well in the local elections as voters allow themselves a protest vote in a meaningless competition but Labour's big problem is they've gone from knowing exactly what a ideology-toxic Corbyn government would look like (and saying, no thanks) to having no idea what a Starmer government stands for.  Announcing increasing a business loans scheme and reissuing new bonds are worthy but dull policies that lack the passion and principles on which to build a winning agenda.

Er..., normally midway happens somewhere around the middle of the term.........................😀

Having said that I'd agree that after a decent start Starmer seems to have completely lost the plot over the last few months but he's still got plenty of time to find it again, especially given the truck loads of ammo the Tories have gifted him - and that's before we get to hear how they're going to try and repair to massive gaping holes in the public finances that they've created over the last 11 years 🤣

 

 

 

[Herman 9,820]

As Big Fish mentions Johnson is getting a boost from from the vaccine rollout, whether deserved or not, and he will get another from when we come out from lockdown. His problems will arise once covid isn't the focus of attention and the realities of brexit and the economy start to reveal themselves to all. Starmer has plenty of time just needs to lively up himself.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

The new leader bounce is over. Normally an opposition party would be well ahead midway through an unpopular government term  but there is just no desire to see a Labour government in Westminster. They may do well in the local elections as voters allow themselves a protest vote in a meaningless competition but Labour's big problem is they've gone from knowing exactly what a ideology-toxic Corbyn government would look like (and saying, no thanks) to having no idea what a Starmer government stands for.  Announcing increasing a business loans scheme and reissuing new bonds are worthy but dull policies that lack the passion and principles on which to build a winning agenda.

So the vaccine roll out isn't a bounce?

Of course Labour will not get back in. We have to repair some of the internal problems that beset the party from time to time.

Brexit incompetence was probably the main reason for the poor election. People may argue it was Corbyn and his policies but that wasn't true in 2017.

The right wing policies of the ERG keeping Boris in power will dilute as they become less popular with the public.

But SKS has to convince the Labour membership that he isn't another Blair first.

[ricardo 7,397]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

 

But SKS has to convince the Labour membership that he isn't another Blair first.

There lies Labours problem. Convincing both the members and the voters at the same time.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, ricardo said:

There lies Labours problem. Convincing both the members and the voters at the same time.

Only the swing voters.

As for members, there is no chance of CLP meetings at the moment and I wouldn't bother with a zoom meeting. SKS, or should I call him Mr Bond, is getting a clear ride at the moment but hopefully we can persuade him in the Autumn that you can revive a lettuce in ice water🤐