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Thirsty Lizard

Another One in The Eye for Brain Dead Cantwell Critics......

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A few guys who sit behind me at the game like to single out someone for criticism, and whilst it was initially Vrancic last season, without question Todd is the scapegoat this term.

From Krul's comments I'm assuming it's not just limited to Block D of the Barclay, and it really is an odd phenomenon as to why some players always seem to get unfairly slated by the crowd. However, if you actually look at Todd's end product this season he is one of our top performers, a young local lad, and from our academy. Just can't understand why he would be a boo boy. Envy?

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Excellent on Saturday as he was previously on occasions.  Needs to be excellent or capable in more than 1 game in every 3, 4 or 5. .

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

And just to elaborate, I have no issue with criticism but I do have a problem with, for example, four or five posters on here who sarcastically claim he's only in the team because he's from Dereham etc etc. He's in the team on merit as are all our players.

I've noticed this. I wonder if it's in fact those posters who can't handle criticism and don't like their views being disagreed with causing them to double down on their opinions and take any chance they have to criticise Cantwell as if it validates everything they've said about him.

They then seem to adopt a position of "oh we're not allowed to criticise this one" completely oblivious to the extent in which they do it.

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7 minutes ago, Hillhead said:

I've noticed this. I wonder if it's in fact those posters who can't handle criticism and don't like their views being disagreed with causing them to double down on their opinions and take any chance they have to criticise Cantwell as if it validates everything they've said about him.

They then seem to adopt a position of "oh we're not allowed to criticise this one" completely oblivious to the extent in which they do it.

I can see both sides of this.

There are a fair few on this forum who seem to view any critique of a Norwich player as heresy and shout SCAPEGOAT at the slightest suggestion a player maybe isn't that great.

On the other hand, Cantwell comes in for more than his fair share of stick, generally from some of our 'older' fans. I genuinely think he'd get less if he didn't have floppy hair, alice bands, gloves, and a baby face. I feel like these elements allow some of our fans to dismiss him as lightweight and reminisce about how football ins 70's was played by real men's men.

Edited by king canary
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Just now, king canary said:

I can see both sides of this.

There are a fair few on this forum who seem to view any critique of a Norwich player as heresy and shout SCAPEGOAT at the slightest suggestion a player maybe isn't that great.

On the other hand, Cantwell comes in for more than his fair share of stick, generally from some of our 'older' fans. I genuinely think he'd get less if he didn't have floppy hair, alice bands, gloves, and a baby face. I feel like these elements allow some of our fans to dismiss him as lightweight and reminisce about how football ins 70's was played by real men's men.

Yes I should proberbly say this doesn't mean any valid criticism isn't warrented. Just like anyone else he isn't immune from that and I wouldn't expect him to be. But as you have already mentioned when those feel the need to dismiss his physicality and glove wearing (who cares!) It's a bit petty.

On the subject of physicallity I'd like to see some of them on the receiving end of the tackle Cantwell put on Schneiderlin - they'd still be on the floor. 😉

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Toddlers is a super little player and his De Greizmann costume  is apt. Physically slight but with skill and surprising tenacity, not blessed with blistering pace but touch and guile. As we no longer have  "our de Gea" , do we now have "our De Greizmann" answers on a postcard to Lakeyo. Apologies LDC for dragging that back up but just couldn't resist it.

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10 hours ago, hogesar said:

And just to elaborate, I have no issue with criticism but I do have a problem with, for example, four or five posters on here who sarcastically claim he's only in the team because he's from Dereham etc etc. He's in the team on merit as are all our players.

Actually, I wouldn’t mind at all if being a Norfolk boy did give him an advantage ! ! Absolutely massive plus point for me . I’ve always longed for more local lads and Norwich fans to be good enough to play for the club . 
Now we’ve got one , let’s all get right behind him and then we’ll see just how good he can be . 
Pretty sure the Evertonians I was drinking with on Saturday would be going nuts if one of their own played that well in the game . 

Edited by Pockthorpe
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Criticism is an appraisal, positive or negative. For footballers, one mistake can invite  unbelievable vitriol. All their good work can be ignored by some because of one slip, one bad pass, one lapse in concentration.  Sure they get well paid, but rumours and gossip " grow legs" and can affect the player, they are human after all. Some can deal with it ,some can't.

The Man that never made a mistake, never made anything. ,....that's my message to Emi. 

Todd meanwhile has almost certainly caught the eye of Clubs that look for something different,  something unusual, something special.

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I just wonder at those who cannot recognise the combination of extraordinary talent and exceptional workrate. Those inside the game have no such struggle.

And if you are looking for basic, fundamental errors, then look no further than Onel's failure to square the ball to Pukki at 0-0 on Saturday which could easily have cost us the game, which seems to have escaped the attention of the collective intelligence of our greatly diminished local press pack, much as it escaped there attention that Onel also failed to deliver quickly enough from good wide positions against Watford which cost us so dear as Pukki had made his run, but the ball in was delayed.

Or Emi's continued immaturity as he clearly feels that he has reached the level which will facilitate (or has facilitated) his next move therefore he does not need to listen and learn and improve. Or Steipie's inability to raise himself. Or Leitner's...well, don't get me started. No wonder he is giving a passable impression of someone who has been abducted by aliens.

Just keep an open mind. No ****-eyed prejudices. That's something all our players deserve. And maybe an understanding that players don't need support when things are going well; they need it far more when they are struggling to find their form. Young players even more so.

 

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I was one of those who wanted him loaned out at the start of the season. He looked at times a decent Championship level player but was inconsistent and lacked composure in front of goal. 

 

He looks like a completely different player this year though, absolute quality and more than worthy of Wes' no 14 shirt. I'm not that clued up ion coaching or player development etc. How can a player improve so drastically over just a summer? it's a credit to him but how has a player gone from decent-ish at Championship level to a PL standout in that sort amount of time?

 

Fair play to him, deserves every bit of success he gets.

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I've read through all the posts on this thread since I started it and on reflection I feel that I got it totally wrong. Cantwell deserves nothing but the harshest criticism..................

.......... those light blue boots with the bright red kit!??

What on earth was he thinking? 😉 🤮🙃

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4 hours ago, Pugin said:

I just wonder at those who cannot recognise the combination of extraordinary talent and exceptional workrate. Those inside the game have no such struggle.

And if you are looking for basic, fundamental errors, then look no further than Onel's failure to square the ball to Pukki at 0-0 on Saturday which could easily have cost us the game, which seems to have escaped the attention of the collective intelligence of our greatly diminished local press pack, much as it escaped there attention that Onel also failed to deliver quickly enough from good wide positions against Watford which cost us so dear as Pukki had made his run, but the ball in was delayed.

Or Emi's continued immaturity as he clearly feels that he has reached the level which will facilitate (or has facilitated) his next move therefore he does not need to listen and learn and improve. Or Steipie's inability to raise himself. Or Leitner's...well, don't get me started. No wonder he is giving a passable impression of someone who has been abducted by aliens.

Just keep an open mind. No ****-eyed prejudices. That's something all our players deserve. And maybe an understanding that players don't need support when things are going well; they need it far more when they are struggling to find their form. Young players even more so

I did notice that about Hernandez, but let's be fair... Several months out and now trying to find his feet, he'll win us a lot of points over the course of the season and we look a much dangerous team when we gave the option to switch play with a long diagonal to Hernandez. He gives the opposition a lot to think about.

Not squaring to our chance-starved striker was criminal really, but Onel probably looking for a goal to settle his own anxieties. 

Stiepermann and Leitner definitely failed to step up, I didn't really expect Marco to do much in the league. Emi has had good games but definitely has some growing up to do. We forget he is only one year older than Cantwell though...

So same applies the other way. Can't justify Cantwells lack of consistency by pointing out his age but then not do the same for Buendia. Both still learning and both need more consistency. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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My point was not that Onel deserves criticism. He does not. He has been great since he came back in.

My point was that those who take it upon themselves to criticise, and I include the dubious duo of Davitt  and Freezer, have a responsibility to do so open-mindedly and without pre-judgement. In order to do so they require an understanding of the game, and it is glaringly obvious that they lack this.

I never have and never will abuse players. But those who are determined to criticise players need to open their eyes and try to understand what they are watching. Every characteristic of a player's personality is out there on display on the pitch. Everything. But only for those who are prepared to see it. Bravery, intelligence, self-sacrifice. Or on the other hand, selfishness, laziness, arrogance.  Watch the game through the prism of physical, tactical and psychological performance, then cast judgement, if that's your thing. 

 

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1 hour ago, Pugin said:

My point was not that Onel deserves criticism. He does not. He has been great since he came back in.

My point was that those who take it upon themselves to criticise, and I include the dubious duo of Davitt  and Freezer, have a responsibility to do so open-mindedly and without pre-judgement. In order to do so they require an understanding of the game, and it is glaringly obvious that they lack this.

I never have and never will abuse players. But those who are determined to criticise players need to open their eyes and try to understand what they are watching. Every characteristic of a player's personality is out there on display on the pitch. Everything. But only for those who are prepared to see it. Bravery, intelligence, self-sacrifice. Or on the other hand, selfishness, laziness, arrogance.  Watch the game through the prism of physical, tactical and psychological performance, then cast judgement, if that's your thing. 

 

 I am quite happy to critcise players as well as quite happy to praise them and I don't know what the problem is with that - it is only natural to have opinions. I think both Cantwell and Buendia have been deserving of criticism at times, as well as deserving of praise at times. 

The two biggest criticisms for me are with players who either give the ball away carelessly or who fail to track back.  In a Farke team tracking back is generally pretty good - he wouldn't have it any other way, but we do see players getting caught on the ball too often and that is frustrating.

Mistakes have cost us points this season from nearly all the players, including from Emi and Todd - and their task as young players is to get the balance right between bravery and pragmatism. Todd was a lot better overall on Saturday, helped by the team set up with Mclean more of a presence in midfield.  However, with both Todd and Emi in the team, the team balance may not be quite right with two young players prone to giving the ball away too cheaply and it was interesting to note that when Farke brought on Emi on Saturday, it was for Cantwell, so preserving the team balance. 

Scapegoating, no, criticism yes, if deserved.

 

Edited by lake district canary

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18 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

 I am quite happy to critcise players as well as quite happy to praise them and I don't know what the problem is with that - it is only natural to have opinions. I think both Cantwell and Buendia have been deserving of criticism at times, as well as deserving of praise at times. 

The two biggest criticisms for me are with players who either give the ball away carelessly or who fail to track back.  In a Farke team tracking back is generally pretty good - he wouldn't have it any other way, but we do see players getting caught on the ball too often and that is frustrating.

Mistakes have cost us points this season from nearly all the players, including from Emi and Todd - and their task as young players is to get the balance right between bravery and pragmatism. Todd was a lot better overall on Saturday, helped by the team set up with Mclean more of a presence in midfield.  However, with both Todd and Emi in the team, the team balance may not be quite right with two young players prone to giving the ball away too cheaply and it was interesting to note that when Farke brought on Emi on Saturday, it was for Cantwell, so preserving the team balance. 

Scapegoating, no, criticism yes, if deserved.

 

Agree completely Lakeyo, I thought the two main factors in the win were Zimbo back and Kenny in the no10 ish position, plus Everton looking about as organised as we did against Watford(so three factors then , really), though Tim Krul had to stop far more than Watford's keeper. I called the Argos square ball to Pukki in the match thread , thankfully it wasn't a match defining decision not to pass, if it even crossed his mind. At times Argos can look a bit head down and go for goal, rather than headup looking to  do the right thing, having said that, I believe he is improving, much along the lines that Adama Traore has improved over the last year or so for Wolves. I would be very surprised if DF hasn't already pointed out to him that the right pass to Pukki would have upped the chance of a goal at that point. 

Overall it was a very good team performance and credit all round for our first away win. 

On a side note LDC, what d'ya reckon to my Toddlers being our De Greizmann theory 😋👍

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Topic seems to be a sticking point for some.

It seems some cannot accept that it is OK to say one of your team played a bad pass, missed a sitter, dipped out on a tackle or should have cleared it rather than passed it.

Teemu is a real hero but when he misses a sitter it is OK to say, he should have buried that. It isn't a downer. It is simply an observation.

And the ones who have been on a downer with Todd haven't appeared on this topic anyway.

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26 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

It seems some cannot accept that it is OK to say one of your team played a bad pass, missed a sitter, dipped out on a tackle or should have cleared it rather than passed it.

I can't see a single person who thinks this.

The whole point is that Cantwell is currently getting criticised beyond what others would and with added scrutiny / attacks on things that should be irrelevant. 

The point made about Hernandez is valid. I can understand why Onel took the shot on but had that have been Cantwell I'm more than confident we'd have had snide remarks about Cantwell being selfish or wanting to be the hero or other such nonsense. 

And I think you do actually know this as you point out in your final sentence those who would have done so haven't made an appearance in this thread.

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And I think you do actually know this as you point out in your final sentence those who would have done so haven't made an appearance in this thread.

Well that is the point. Those who just want to moan appear when it suits them. But those of us who post on the match thread during the game also contribute to other things. So the OP's point is lost on them because they won't bite.

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On 23/11/2019 at 17:17, Flying Dutchman said:

Jobsworth must be having a meltdown right now.

Wait til the end of the season after all one swallow doesn’t make a summer and even I would have converted that chance pukki did the hard work 

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Wait til the end of the season after all one swallow doesn’t make a summer and even I would have converted that chance pukki did the hard work 

So MacLean did nothing to create it?

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45 minutes ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

Wait til the end of the season after all one swallow doesn’t make a summer and even I would have converted that chance pukki did the hard work 

You'd still have been eating your pie let alone ready for a through-ball beyond the last defender

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43 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Wait til the end of the season after all one swallow doesn’t make a summer and even I would have converted that chance pukki did the hard work 

So MacLean did nothing to create it?

So you agree with the easy chance cr@p?

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38 minutes ago, Jobsworth Canary said:

As you say it was a McLean/pukki goal he just had the very simple job of not screwing it up by missing a sitter 

You are clearly a dolt. It was a very tidy finish indeed, as acknowledged by Shearer and other pundits in premier League review programmes. Your knowledge of football must be minimal if that is your judgement on Todd's classy slot Home.

Stick to discussing Seafood . At least you have experience of that, because if you ever played footy, you learnt nothing from the experience, nothing at all.

You are also the most unimaginative Troll on this message board. Same old shoite rolled out time and again.

Big Vince has more (misguided admittedly) footy nous than you.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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11 minutes ago, FenwayFrank said:

Waveney “ being funny” again, hilarious stuff 

I'm just amazed that his sidekick Benny Till hasn't " liked " his post yet, maybe he's  too busy slavering over his 1976 page3 girl calendar.

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