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Indy

One CB from being a very good a Premiership Team?

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I hate to say we should have spent a few million, but I really believe we have three absolute gems in Godfrey, Aarons and Lewis, with a great bench to cover those positions, but without Zimmermann we look like conceding goals. I honestly believe had we spent a few million on a decent young CB in the summer we’d be a comfortable mid table!

Still think we’ll stay up comfortably. 

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8 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Good job we have 2 very good CBs almost back from injury.

As someone said on a different post, both still have to prove themselves at this level, though I think they will, it would have been nice to see another CB from the continent.

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8 minutes ago, Indy said:

As someone said on a different post, both still have to prove themselves at this level, though I think they will, it would have been nice to see another CB from the continent.

Klose almost singlehandedly kept us up. If he hadn’t got injured we’d have stayed up that season. Small sample size of 10 games but he was phenomenal.

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Klose has to come in for the West Ham game and I’m sure he will. I’m afraid Hanley is a good Championship defender but won’t make the step up to the PL

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I thought Hanley did ok today if that's really your point. we didn't stop the cross coming in for Abrahams 1st and their 2nd a result of us pissing about from our goal kick, their 3rd an excellent counter attack. We could have had 2 Godfreys and they would still have scored.

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27 minutes ago, Excited Canary said:

Zimmermann + a CDM I feel. Trybull constantly bypassed as if he isn’t there, running in treacle. Hopefully Amadou is the man. 

I agree with this.

Everyone is talking about Hanley being the weak link, but I think the biggest problem today was how exposed the defence were, and that comes from midfield. 

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Posted (edited)

Why is Hanley the fall guy again? What is it with this clubs fans always needing a scapegoat.

I thought Jamal Lewis had a shaky game too and Stiepermann isn't exactly setting the world alight and under a stricter ref would have been a liability today. What is there to be gained by singling out a player when that player has been the only available option? 

Unfortunately we've had to play 2 top sides with only two fit centre backs, **** happens. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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We have played Liverpool, Newcastle & Chelsea. 

When the fixtures came out most would have hoped for 3 points at this stage. 

We have 3 points and did well in the other 2 games. 

Why the blame game?

FFS what do some of you want?

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Hanley made some very good defensive headers today, it was noticeable how he was hardly passed to when we were playing out from the back, that does considerably reduce your options.

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8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Why is Hanley the fall guy again? What is it with this clubs fans always needing a scapegoat.

I thought Jamal Lewis had a shaky game too and Stiepermann isn't exactly setting the world alight and under a stricter ref would have been a liability today. What is there to be gained by singling out a player when that player has been the only available option? 

Unfortunately we've had to play 2 top sides with only two fit centre backs, **** happens. 

Because he’s not very good......He’s not quick on his feet nor his reactions, while he’s been costing us goals young Godfrey has had very solid performances. Another decent CB alongside and we might have nicked something today!

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2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hanley made some very good defensive headers today, it was noticeable how he was hardly passed to when we were playing out from the back, that does considerably reduce your options.

Not so, I think you need to watch the game again VW, Godfrey got most of the headers today, one header and one cross cut out by Hanley. Two goals today were down to a rigid Hanley who’s just not very good at reading the game nor staying with the man! Funny how Godfrey appears to be able to read the defence and get his body in the way!

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12 minutes ago, Indy said:

Not so, I think you need to watch the game again VW, Godfrey got most of the headers today, one header and one cross cut out by Hanley. Two goals today were down to a rigid Hanley who’s just not very good at reading the game nor staying with the man! Funny how Godfrey appears to be able to read the defence and get his body in the way!

Didnt he make some good defensive headers?

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I think this will be the last discussion we have about Hanley this season unless injuries hit again. He’s stood in and given his all, it’s just unfortunate that this is too big a step up for him. Paddy Davitt highlights in his 5 pointers article that Hanley is likely to now drop out of the starting 11. I agree that several players had average games, but those players are the best we have available in their positions, Hanley is not and will be replaced now

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15 minutes ago, JF said:

I think this will be the last discussion we have about Hanley this season unless injuries hit again. He’s stood in and given his all, it’s just unfortunate that this is too big a step up for him. Paddy Davitt highlights in his 5 pointers article that Hanley is likely to now drop out of the starting 11. I agree that several players had average games, but those players are the best we have available in their positions, Hanley is not and will be replaced now

That sounds about right, I dislike the way so much critical debate seems to revolve around him, especially when he is all that we have available, but of the four he would be last choice.

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Just now, Van wink said:

That sounds about right, I dislike the way so much critical debate seems to revolve around him, especially when he is all that we have available, but of the four he would be last choice.

Not intentionally VW, but it’s just what happened.....had it been Godfrey he too should be singled out, but he’s having a blinder at present, having to cover Hanley.

I think criticism might be better aimed at not recruiting better during the summer and allowing him to leave to Blackburn.

Still we do have Klose back so hopefully we should tighten the back up next match.

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3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Not intentionally VW, but it’s just what happened.....had it been Godfrey he too should be singled out, but he’s having a blinder at present, having to cover Hanley.

I think criticism might be better aimed at not recruiting better during the summer and allowing him to leave to Blackburn.

Still we do have Klose back so hopefully we should tighten the back up next match.

I believe Farke said that Zimbo might even be ready for West Ham

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Just now, Van wink said:

I believe Farke said that Zimbo might even be ready for West Ham

Hope so matey, Zimbo of last season alongside Godfrey and Amadou in front holding should see us keep a few clean sheets what with our forward play mid table is there!

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1 hour ago, Indy said:

Because he’s not very good......He’s not quick on his feet nor his reactions, while he’s been costing us goals young Godfrey has had very solid performances. Another decent CB alongside and we might have nicked something today!

Outside of the 5 or 6 biggest teams in the league no other team is likely to have a 4th choice centre back that could be considered "very good" at this level. 

Just feels like people are stating the obvious and being unfair to Hanley as an individual. He knew where he stood this season which is why he almost signed for a Championship club. 

He's all we've got fit, we know Klose and hopefully Zimmermann are better.  

Perhaps in January he'll complete that move and we'll upgrade, in the meantime he's one of ours and we support him whenever he's on the pitch.

This club has made giant strides towards being one about togetherness and winning and losing as a club. We could carry on in that direction or we could start threads slagging off our players.

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty confident that putting either Klose or Zimmermann 

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I agree with this.

Everyone is talking about Hanley being the weak link, but I think the biggest problem today was how exposed the defence were, and that comes from midfield. 

Exactly this. Changing Hanley for Zimm or Klose will make next to no difference. It's the strategy of the team and defensive behaviour generally that needs to improve. 

As excellent as Cantwell, Buendia & Steipermann are and have been, they do often rush the play and lose the ball in advanced postions that seems to leave us wide open for the counter attack. A counter at pace and power simply overwhelms Leitner and Trybull (and Mclean). Players good in close quarters, but simply not quick or physical enough to power in and halt play. It's knife through butter stuff sometimes.

Yes it was Chelsea, and yes we were still very good in spells. But lets not kid ourselves. We lacked any real control and always looked vulnerable. And this isn't a direct reflection in the step up of opposition, we had similar defensive issues last season.

I'm not suggesting we change our brand of football, which is a joy to watch at times, but we need to find a way of controlling the game for at least short periods, and give ourselves a chance to re-set and recover. We're more than good enough on the ball to be able to do this. Had we done this today I think we definitely get a point. 

We badly missed the directness of Hernandez, and the controlling influence of Vrancic. Easy to say now, I know. But Hernandez gets defneders busy and on the back foot, whilst Vrancic can hold onto the ball and doesn't rush a fancy Buendia/Cantwell flick. I think Vrancic, Roberts and Amadou all need to be tried in the not too distant future. 

Edited by Il Pirata
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For the record, Godfrey was very good again today. He's going to command a huge transfer fee one day. 

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8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Outside of the 5 or 6 biggest teams in the league no other team is likely to have a 4th choice centre back that could be considered "very good" at this level. 

Just feels like people are stating the obvious and being unfair to Hanley as an individual. He knew where he stood this season which is why he almost signed for a Championship club. 

He's all we've got fit, we know Klose and hopefully Zimmermann are better.  

Perhaps in January he'll complete that move and we'll upgrade, in the meantime he's one of ours and we support him whenever he's on the pitch.

This club has made giant strides towards being one about togetherness and winning and losing as a club. We could carry on in that direction or we could start threads slagging off our players.

You’ve just confirmed what we’re saying, it’s not his fault, as said......but highlighted the failings in an otherwise very strong performance. As I said on other threads there’s no doubt he’s putting in a shift, he’s certainly trying his best for the shirt and to be commended, Just it’s noticeable his level is far from what’s required.

We know how good a fit Klose is but in the past few seasons he’s been injured a lot and we knew Zimmermann would be out for a while, so as I said the finger might be pointed to the club not spending that little bit more on a better CB to sure us up over a long season. Just opinions guys.

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1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I agree with this.

Everyone is talking about Hanley being the weak link, but I think the biggest problem today was how exposed the defence were, and that comes from midfield. 

 

Agree. I really hope Amadou is the missing piece

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I think Hanley just isn't a good leader.

He's the captain but after every mistake he's got his head in his hands like it's the end of the world, which differs from what Zimbo would do who as a natural leader, just gets fired up and helps the defence find its feet again after a mistake.

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I almost agree, yes the defence was exposed to runners too often, and inserting Amadou I hope is the solution to that, but like it or not Hanley is showing why he is fourth choice CB. Too slow to react and especially too slow to turn or regain balance. I’m not knocking him, nor am i saying the  club were wrong not to have signed another CB, after all in the 4 - 6 weeks we expect Klose and Zimmermann to miss, we had Liverpool,  Chelsea and Man City, it maybe was a reasonable gamble to say let’s spend the money elsewhere or if necessary spend in January. 

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1 hour ago, percy varco said:

We have played Liverpool, Newcastle & Chelsea. 

When the fixtures came out most would have hoped for 3 points at this stage. 

We have 3 points and did well in the other 2 games. 

Why the blame game?

FFS what do some of you want?

We've also conceded 8 goals in those three games- it is OK to be a touch concerned by that.

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16 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

I'm pretty confident that putting either Klose or Zimmermann 

Exactly this. Changing Hanley for Zimm or Klose will make next to no difference. It's the strategy of the team and defensive behaviour generally that needs to improve. 

As excellent as Cantwell, Buendia & Steipermann are and have been, they do often rush the play and lose the ball in advanced postions that seems to leave us wide open for the counter attack. A counter at pace and power simply overwhelms Leitner and Trybull (and Mclean). Players good in close quarters, but simply not quick or physical enough to power in and halt play. It's knife through butter stuff sometimes.

Yes it was Chelsea, and yes we were still very good in spells. But lets not kid ourselves. We lacked any real control and always looked vulnerable. And this isn't a direct reflection in the step up of opposition, we had similar defensive issues last season.

I'm not suggesting we change our brand of football, which is a joy to watch at times, but we need to find a way of controlling the game for at least short periods, and give ourselves a chance to re-set and recover. We're more than good enough on the ball to be able to do this. Had we done this today I think we definitely get a point. 

We badly missed the directness of Hernandez, and the controlling influence of Vrancic. Easy to say now, I know. But Hernandez gets defneders busy and on the back foot, whilst Vrancic can hold onto the ball and doesn't rush a fancy Buendia/Cantwell flick. I think Vrancic, Roberts and Amadou all need to be tried in the not too distant future. 

 

Good as Godfrey has been, when Zimbo and Klose are back do we consider playing them both and shifting Godfrey forward again? Im hoping Amadou is the business though

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3 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

 

Good as Godfrey has been, when Zimbo and Klose are back do we consider playing them both and shifting Godfrey forward again? Im hoping Amadou is the business though

There could be an argument for playing all three Klose, Godfrey and Zimmermann to allow Aarons and Lewis to push on knowing we have cover. But then you negate that midfield which has been good so far.

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