The Positive Brexit Thread

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

The government won't tell us how much they had to pay to bribe them. Rumours are its around £120m, which works out at roughly £75,000 for each new job they claim will be created. Shame about all the jobs lost by Gap closing down 81 stores in the UK.

BTW Nissan said on Radio 4 this morning that they would have left the UK if we had gone ahead with a no deal brexit (The No deal that YOU wanted to happen Swindle).

it does not compare to the £1bl  Nissan has invested in the place where they voted with a BIG out vote ! They have confidence in Britain and your sums are wrong how many jobs do you think it creates ? 

Edited July 1, 2021 by SwindonCanary

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Well b back 3,220]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

it does not compare to the £1bl  Nissan has invested in the place where they voted with a BIG out vote ! They have confidence in Britain and your sums are wrong how many jobs do you think it creates ? 

I am very confused, Nissan said they would leave if there was no deal, there was a deal and they stayed, however you and your mates were begging for a no deal ie kick Nissan out, are you now saying your support of a no deal was not the best option for the U.K. ?

[SwindonCanary 455]

IT JUST SHOWS HOW WELL BRITAIN IS DOING AFTER BREXIT 

[Herman 9,780]

The simple fact is that we didn't need to leave the EU to be able to build a battery factory in Sunderland. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

43 minutes ago, Herman said:

The simple fact is that we didn't need to leave the EU to be able to build a battery factory in Sunderland. 

It's because we left that Nissan invested in us !

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

5 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

It's because we left that Nissan invested in us !

It was probably more to do with the massive bribe load of tax payers money that the Tories were forced to hand over to Nissan.

 

[horsefly 4,303]

9 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

It's because we left that Nissan invested in us !

You really are intellectually retarded aren't you! All you had to do was listen to what Nissan said in public yesterday to hear them say explicitly that brexit actually imperilled the future of Nissan in the UK. They said very clearly that it was only because we avoided a no-deal (something YOU wanted) that they didn't move out of the UK entirely. Even a fool listening to that statement should be able to realise that it was a clear warning to the government not to do anything in the future that might effect our trade with the EU. Do us all a favour and get your head scanned to see if there is actually a brain in there.

[SwindonCanary 455]

The next big announcement will be Tesla . Britain is booming !

[horsefly 4,303]

6 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

The next big announcement will be Tesla . Britain is booming !

Actually don't bother with the scan, we already know the result.

[horsefly 4,303]

Welcome as the Nissan decision is it's important to take a closer look at where the UK is in relation to the EU on car and battery production:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/gigafactory-welcome-but-battery-power-production-will-need-boost-to-compete-with-europe/ar-AALGrHN?ocid=msedgntp

Welcome though this investment is, 9GWh a year is not much more than a flicker compared to the battery production the UK will need keep pace with European competitors.

Industry body the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders said this week the UK should target 60GWh of battery production by 2030, and there are few signs that will be met.

By 2025, the UK is forecast to have 12GWh of production, less than a 10th of the 122GWh planned by Germany, and behind Poland, Hungary and Sweden.

By 2030, the gap with Europe will have widened, with the UK projecting 37GWh of capacity against an EU total of 640GWh.

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

Brussels we have a problem.

"Slovenia's PM, Janez Jansa has just taken over the presidency of the EU. This comes amid his various quarrels with Brussels over the rule of law, press freedom, his increasingly autocratic style and his continued alignment with his populist ally, Viktor Orban

Among the challenges over the next six months, Slovenia will chair a summit in the autumn on the integration of Western Balkan countries. It will also oversee the fight against COVID-19 and the relaunch of the EU economy, as countries prepare to receive their share of the Commission's €750 billion recovery package.

But attention will undoubtedly focus on another aspect of the programme: Slovenia promises to "reinforce the rule of law and European values", a subject which causes division among the EU27.

Sources in the country believe one of Slovenia's main tasks during the presidency will be to quicken EU accession of the Western Balkan states — Serbia, Bosnia, Albania, North Macedonia, Montenegro and Kosovo whilst many Western members are showing a certain "expansion fatigue."

(Times, Telegraph, Guardian, Spectator ... can't remember.)

When even Mutti used her country's recent presidency to cuddle up to the Chinese (was it a video conference in the end?) in order to formulate a trade deal favouring the German car industry, whilst conveniently ignoring the treatment of Hong Kong and the  Uyghurs ...    annoying Rutte, for one, what will this b-ugger get upto?

This comes amid the growing problems caused to EU companies caused by the EU's decision to scrap private arbitration for investement within the EU.

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-uk-trade-investment-protection-eu-competition-rule-of-law-courts/

Abridged:

"It's a Brexit paradox: European companies may get better protection for their investments in the EU — by setting up shop in Britain.

Businesses in countries such as Germany warn they could move part of their operations to the U.K. to benefit from stronger legal protections when investing in EU countries such as Hungary and Romania.

They say it all comes down to trust — and they don't trust courts in some countries to rule fairly.

Up until now, they have been able to use special bilateral investment protection agreements between countries that allow private arbitration panels to resolve disputes between the investor and the government of the country where the investment was made. Such disputes would include, for example, alleged discriminatory practice or a breach of protections the investor believes they are entitled to. But such arrangements are controversial — critics say private investor tribunals are secretive and allow corporations to escape legal responsibilities — and the EU has agreed to scrap them.

That has left some companies pondering incorporating in the U.K., where they could still use bilateral investment protection agreements with EU countries.“Trust cannot be imposed,” Stephan Wernicke, chief legal officer for the German Chambers of Industry and Commerce said earlier this year. “Hence there are strong legal and economic arguments that EU companies will, following Brexit … launch bigger investments in certain EU member states only after having set up a [legal incorporation] in the U.K."

EU countries agreed to stop using private arbitration for investments within the EU following a judgment by the Court of Justice of the EU (CJEU), the bloc’s highest court, that said EU laws offer sufficient protections.

Under EU law, courts in every country are supposed to hold the same legal standards on everything from food safety to property rights. But some companies say they no longer trust politicized courts in countries such as Poland and Hungary to fully respect European law.

They are pointing to another CJEU judgment from November 2019 on a Polish disciplinary body that questioned the independence and impartiality of Polish courts etc. etc."

"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive!" 

The next three months will be interesting.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

 

https://www.ft.com/content/fbb70741-34cc-4f54-a66b-a2e4b9445f5b

Covid pandemic masks Brexit impact on UK economy

Economists say new checks and rules have hurt trade but six months on the full scale of the damage is still uncertain

However, economists from both sides of the argument are in agreement on one thing — new rules and regulations ushered in by Britain’s new relationship with Brussels have caused damage to the UK’s economy, hitting trade and deepening labour shortages.

 

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

The US innovates, China immitates and the EU regulates.

US: Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. (with a little help from Tim Berners-Lee.)

China: Huawei, originally an Apple clone (with a liitle help from Candadian technicians) ... now excellent I am told.

EU:  The Cookie Compliance Ruling ... that annoying and meaningless consent you have to give before entering any site. As if you had a choice.

Edited July 2, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[horsefly 4,303]

Now brexit means we can't even rely on getting a daily fix of Haribo FFS!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/haribo-sweets-uk-shops-delivery-lorry-shortage-brexit-covid-b943756.html

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

24 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Now brexit means we can't even rely on getting a daily fix of Haribo FFS!

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/haribo-sweets-uk-shops-delivery-lorry-shortage-brexit-covid-b943756.html

Not Tangfastic news. 😀

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, BroadstairsR said:

The US innovates, China immitates and the EU regulates.

US: Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. (with a little help from Tim Berners-Lee.)

China: Huawei, originally an Apple clone (with a liitle help from Candadian technicians) ... now excellent I am told.

EU:  The Cookie Compliance Ruling ... that annoying and meaningless consent you have to give before entering any site. As if you had a choice.

Huawei still has many limitations with its system. My wife has one but wouldn't have another.

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Huawei still has many limitations with its system. My wife has one but wouldn't have another.

I wouldn't really know, I use an IPhone, but I've been told that they are hot stuff nowadays. Originally a clone nevertheless.

The Chinese version of Haribo are really nice though ... or so I've been led to believe by my ten years old niece.
 

Edited July 2, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[sonyc 5,529]

2 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

The US innovates, China immitates and the EU regulates.

US: Microsoft, Apple, Google etc. (with a little help from Tim Berners-Lee.)

China: Huawei, originally an Apple clone (with a liitle help from Candadian technicians) ... now excellent I am told.

EU:  The Cookie Compliance Ruling ... that annoying and meaningless consent you have to give before entering any site. As if you had a choice.

I know your stance  on Brexit Broadstairs as you've been vocal in the past. And that is fine. The story posted earlier is interesting and of course would be good news if businesses relocate here. I think those kind of decisions might play out over years. And we will only know the full effect of Brexit many years down the line. It's not started well though. One might expect teething problems and any new arrangements take a good while to bed in.

I wanted to challenge your 'strapline' as it were "the US innovates, China imitates and the EU regulates". My view is that is such a reductive statement that it diminishes it being taken seriously (apologies as have no wish to be personal, I'm focussing on your words though).

The EU is not perfect but isn't regulation important for industrial health and safety, for food safety? Just two examples and many more (security, cross sectoral collaboration -private/public/third etc as well as their work on promotion of wage / employment conditions and HR protections, for equality ...and so on). As a result we have seen industrial accidents fall, food contamination outbreaks decrease and so on. We have seen wonderful examples of labour mobility and job creation schemes. 

There are thousands of examples actually (I know as I worked in several and visited many countries and saw results with my own eyes and spoke to many people, specialists in their fields). 

Just to say the EU regulates is rather a crass simplification and actually is untrue as a statement in itself. Any move to regulate though often has bureaucracy  with it. It is bureaucracy that is a pain in the *rse. I am critical of much of this. On this I would agree with you.

The Chinese have built their industry through incredible exploitation, much as happened in the UK in the industrial revolution. That's capitalism isn't it. Yet they have achieved that not just by imitation but through huge state planning and investment. What if we had adopted such an approach to our infrastructure? We didn't. Successive governments haven't.

Generally, US standards are a real concern for our pharmaceutical industry and our health service. For our agriculture too If that is innovation then we should all fear. It will be a 'race to the bottom'. All about the bottom line 

Anyway, enough here. I couldn't just not respond to those sentences without adding a little context. 

The EU is not all bad and it is not perfect.

For me it's about building on a relationship and influencing what you can. Not simply a divorce without any idea of how you're going to look after your children you've had together afterwards. That is irresponsible  Yet, that is one metaphor for the way Brexit seems to being handled.

Edited July 2, 2021 by sonyc

[BroadstairsR 2,179]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

I know your stance  on Brexit Broadstairs as you've been vocal in the past. And that is fine. The story posted earlier is interesting and of course would be good news if businesses relocate here. I think those kind of decisions might play out over years. And we will only know the full effect of Brexit many years down the line. It's not started well though. One might expect teething problems and any new arrangements take a good while to bed in.

I wanted to challenge your 'strapline' as it were "the US innovates, China imitates and the EU regulates". My view is that is such a reductive statement that it diminishes it being taken seriously (apologies as have no wish to be personal, I'm focussing on your words though).

The EU is not perfect but isn't regulation important for industrial health and safety, for food safety? Just two examples and many more (security, cross sectoral collaboration -private/public/third etc as well as their work on promotion of wage / employment conditions and HR protections, for equality ...and so on). As a result we have seen industrial accidents fall, food contamination outbreaks decrease and so on. We have seen wonderful examples of labour mobility and job creation schemes. 

There are thousands of examples actually (I know as I worked in several and visited many countries and saw results with my own eyes and spoke to many people, specialists in their fields). 

Just to say the EU regulates is rather a crass simplification and actually is untrue as a statement in itself. Any move to regulate though often has bureaucracy go with it. It is bureaucracy that is a pain in the *rse. I am critical of much of this. On this I would agree with you.

The Chinese have built their industry through incredible exploitation much as happened in the UK in the industrial revolution. That's capitalism isn't it. Yet they have achieved that not just by imitation by through huge state planning and investment. What if we had adopted such an approach to our infrastructure? We didn't. Successive governments haven't.

The US standards are a real concern for our pharmaceutical industry and our health service. For our agriculture too If that is innovation then we should all fear. It will be a 'race to the bottom'.

Anyway, enough here. I couldn't just not respond to those sentences without adding a little context. 

The EU is not all bad and it is not perfect. For me it's about building on a relationship and influencing what you can. Not simply a divorce without any idea of how you're going to look after your children you've had together afterwards. That is irresponsible  Yet, that is one metaphor for the way Brexit seems to being handled for me.

I agree with all of that, but a lot we would have achieved unilaterally. Your last two sentences were a bit OTT, I feel.

My "strapline" was a tease for sure, but has some basis in truth nevertheless. The much larger companion body of the "cookie regulations," the GDPR (General Data Protection Regulation) has created a hugely expensive burdon for businesses and it is estimated at a cost to them of £1.6 billion per annum. Data Protection Solicitor firms are prolific in their formation and the whole organisation continues to present the best examples of Parkinson's Law (4 esp.) since that term was invented.  

I voted for Brexit because I am single-minded in my intense dislike of Brussels and the multitude of things it stands for. No other factor in the whole debate particularly resonated with me, although intertwining to some extent is inevitable.

I won't list this multitude of things (where do I begin?) although the highly electable Von der Leyen (who came second in that vote, btw?) has managed to do an excellent job in maintaining my view since the vote. Macron seems to want to jump into Mutti's shoes ... good luck with that, whilst the Eastern EU states seem determined to buck values.

The coffers are stretched.

We now seem to have reached a situation whereby forces in the EU want the UK to become, to a certain extent, a 'failed state' as they see that outcome to be the only way that it can survive ..... in it's present state at least.

The Irish, now a net contributor at last may eventually see things differently.

One day we will re-join, but it will be to a vastly different EU than it is today.   

Edited July 2, 2021 by BroadstairsR

[SwindonCanary 455]

Nissan is great news for Britain, and all you leavers can do is complain 

Believe in Britain ! 

[A Load of Squit 5,172]

16 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Nissan is great news for Britain, and all you leavers can do is complain 

Believe in Britain ! 

'leavers' 🤣🤣🤣

[Well b back 3,220]

O dear, not positive I am afraid, maybe somebody can explain why British workers are not queuing up for the jobs.

LONDON (Reuters) -Premier Foods, one of Britain’s biggest food companies, has called on the government to consider using the army to distribute goods to help relieve a severe shortage of truck drivers.

Last week industry leaders warned Britain could face gaps on supermarket shelves this summer and an “unimaginable” collapse of supply chains after the pandemic and Brexit led to a shortage of more than 100,000 heavy goods vehicle (HGV) drivers.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

Nissan is great news for Britain, and all you leavers can do is complain 

Believe in Britain ! 

Is Nissan British?

[Yellow Fever 3,793]

1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

'leavers' 🤣🤣🤣

Never a truer word spoken.

All the 'Leavers' ever do is complain and find somebody else to blame.

Anyway good luck to Nissan and Sunderland. It's a pity we had to grease their palms quite so heavily to persuade them to stay. Its called damage limitation. Vauxhall took note and are next in the queue for another £100M plus handout (the rest of industry & agriculture are also queuing up behind them) but perhaps they aren't quite so iconic (Nissan a must not lose whatever it costs) to the Brexiteers?

The far bigger story was  the loss of EU Financial 'Equivalence 'and Sunak trying hopelessly to spin it as a positive. The cost of this dwarfs Nissan.

[Well b back 3,220]

Nissan is great news for Britain,
 

So why did you try to get rid of them by telling us a no deal would be the best option, they stayed because there was a deal ?

[SwindonCanary 455]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

'leavers' 🤣🤣🤣

you've left the good old Britain !

[SwindonCanary 455]

2 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Is Nissan British?

The plant that gives all the jobs is British. 

[horsefly 4,303]

800 pages of the "Positive Brexit Thread", and still not a single demonstrative positive identified to result from this calamity.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

25 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

The plant that gives all the jobs is British. 

And the profits?