The Positive Brexit Thread

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

28 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Oh I see, MOUs bad, EU treaties good is it? 

Last year the UK’s economy grew significantly faster than the EU average for the second year running and although the European market is naturally important to the UK, it's ever more important British businesses look to the faster-growing markets around the world -- That's why signing mutually beneficial deals with independent US states is a positive...

You don't have to take the above seriously and it's already a given you and your fellow Lefty douche-canoes on here don't take me seriously, but I will continue to post regardless.

I know you struggle with this but here for your homework is GDP comparisons from the House of Commons Library. It's dated 29 September 2023 and tries to take out some of swings and roundabouts of the pandemic years (i.e our 10% reduction and full stop/start). Germany is of course exposed more than anybody else to the Russian Oil/Gas and global export weakness but so what. We apparently lag the Eurozone. Note the caveat at the end.   

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/ j 

As you like pretty pictures I've copied and pasted.

GDP growth in recent years

UK GDP in Q2 2023 was 1.8% higher compared to the pre-pandemic level of Q4 2019. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 2.7% higher, with GDP in France up by 1.7% and in Germany up by 0.2%. Meanwhile, US GDP was 6.1% higher.

UK GDP data was recently revised by the Office for National Statistics (ONS). The ONS revised up GDP growth in 2020 and 2021 due to additional information becoming avaiable, including on the costs firms faced in the pandemic.

As a result, the UK’s economic recovery from the Covid-19 pandemic was stronger than previously thought. Before the revisions, UK GDP was 0.2% lower in Q2 2023 compared to its pre-pandemic level of Q4 2019. As shown above, it is now estimated to be 1.8% higher.

Other countries, including Spain and Italy, have also revised up their GDP estimates for recent years, with more likely to do so in future.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[BigFish 2,001]

41 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Last year the UK’s economy grew significantly faster than the EU average for the second year running

This is obvious nonsense seeing as there was virtually no growth in the UK last year.

[Nuff Said 5,316]

23 minutes ago, BigFish said:

This is obvious nonsense seeing as there was virtually no growth in the UK last year.

I suspect he means growth in specific key areas. Like sackings from right-wing opinion TV channels which masquerade as news channels, and ludicrously regressive Tory policies.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,635]

4 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Arh deflection. I was just explaining why all this US state MOU white noise is small beer (or actually no beer) compared to what was expected. Is it even on any front pages? Just checked FT, Graun, Mail surely (but that's got a 'hurricane' of new migrants - must be an Indian trade deal all 1.6Bn of them coming - Peeeeeeeeeeep goes the dog whistle) 

That's all the Tories have left.

Oh your edit - that would be an MOU with the EU wouldn't it! Perhaps we could have the same with US Government on trade and then I might take note.

Excuse me: I rather think banging on about 'the Brexiteers promised' is the original deflection from something that is a somewhat positive post-Brexit development.

It doesn't matter whether it's small beer or big beer; the MOU is some beer. And I doubt you'd take note of a federal MOU anyway, other than moaning about all the negatives for the UK in the terms of the deal we'd finish up with if we're being honest.

And yes, I suspect the Indian deal will be done before the next election, and yes it'll probably mean freer migration for Indians, but then I'm okay with that and I can't imagine you're troubled by it, so why raise it? Oh, I know, it's mocking the straw man brexiteer you prefer to imagine as you hide from the more complicated and nuanced reality of the myriad reasons why it happened.

Edited October 3, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Barbe bleu 844]

Here's a question  far more interesting than analysing GDP figures: how many non European counties have there been in the EU and how many have left?

(Non European country being a state wholly or partially outside of geogical Europe - self governing dependant territories excepted)

[canarydan23 4,192]

2 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Here's a question  far more interesting than analysing GDP figures: how many non European counties have there been in the EU and how many have left?

(Non European country being a state wholly or partially outside of geogical Europe - self governing dependant territories excepted)

Silly question. Everyone knows that the authority on what is or isn't Europe is Ryder Cup eligibility, not Geography.

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Silly question. Everyone knows that the authority on what is or isn't Europe is Ryder Cup eligibility, not Geography.

I thought that was the song contest.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

20 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Silly question. Everyone knows that the authority on what is or isn't Europe is Ryder Cup eligibility, not Geography.

Don't forget the Champions League. For balance, Saudi teams will be in it as Israeli ones are.

[Barbe bleu 844]

19 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Silly question. Everyone knows that the authority on what is or isn't Europe is Ryder Cup eligibility, not Geography.

Tough call but I'd rather government decisions were made at a eurovsion party than at a golf club

[canarydan23 4,192]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Tough call but I'd rather government decisions were made at a eurovsion party than at a golf club

Those idiots think Australia is Europe.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

If we win the Eurovision Song Contest, can we go back in?

[Barbe bleu 844]

Anyone got an answer yet?

[Well b back 3,353]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Excuse me: I rather think banging on about 'the Brexiteers promised' is the original deflection from something that is a somewhat positive post-Brexit development.

It doesn't matter whether it's small beer or big beer; the MOU is some beer. And I doubt you'd take note of a federal MOU anyway, other than moaning about all the negatives for the UK in the terms of the deal we'd finish up with if we're being honest.

And yes, I suspect the Indian deal will be done before the next election, and yes it'll probably mean freer migration for Indians, but then I'm okay with that and I can't imagine you're troubled by it, so why raise it? Oh, I know, it's mocking the straw man brexiteer you prefer to imagine as you hide from the more complicated and nuanced reality of the myriad reasons why it happened.

Maybe that’s the hurricane predicted by Braverman.

[A Load of Squit 5,314]

11 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

If we win the Eurovision Song Contest, can we go back in?

It's all negotiable.

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

Whatever we think about the cancelling of HS2 I'm sure from the outside looking in its all viewed as part and parcel of the UK's retreat from being a leading country/economy into a much diminished state. We can't even build a modern high speed railway as per our European, Japanese or indeed Chinese (even Indonesian) competitors.

[A Load of Squit 5,314]

10 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

Anyone got an answer yet?

Greenland left the EU.

French, Dutch & Spanish dependencies are part of the EU but not in Europe, although most of them do not use the EU rules for Duty Free (famously the Canary Islands catches out loads of people) shopping.

 

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

2 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

Greenland left the EU.

French, Dutch & Spanish dependencies are part of the EU but not in Europe, although most of them do not use the EU rules for Duty Free (famously the Canary Islands catches out loads of people) shopping.

 

I always recall being in Tahiti - and using the Euro!

BBs question was surely a trick question as too obvious to bother answer (27, 1 (us) ).

[Herman 9,917]

4 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Whatever we think about the cancelling of HS2 I'm sure from the outside looking in its all viewed as part and parcel of the UK's retreat from being a leading country/economy into a much diminished state. We can't even build a modern high speed railway as per our European, Japanese or indeed Chinese (even Indonesian) competitors.

Turkey even. Is that how they will all be coming over here?

 

[BigFish 2,001]

13 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Excuse me: I rather think banging on about 'the Brexiteers promised' is the original deflection from something that is a somewhat positive post-Brexit development.

It doesn't matter whether it's small beer or big beer; the MOU is some beer. And I doubt you'd take note of a federal MOU anyway, other than moaning about all the negatives for the UK in the terms of the deal we'd finish up with if we're being honest.

And yes, I suspect the Indian deal will be done before the next election, and yes it'll probably mean freer migration for Indians, but then I'm okay with that and I can't imagine you're troubled by it, so why raise it? Oh, I know, it's mocking the straw man brexiteer you prefer to imagine as you hide from the more complicated and nuanced reality of the myriad reasons why it happened.

When it comes to beer these agreements are very much the slop tray of trade. Probably costs more to negotiate than any economic benefit. After the next election they won't be mentioned again.

[Barbe bleu 844]

3 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Greenland left the EU.

French, Dutch & Spanish dependencies are part of the EU but not in Europe, although most of them do not use the EU rules for Duty Free (famously the Canary Islands catches out loads of people) shopping.

 

I stand to be corrected but...

3 countries (France, Spain and Portugal) in the EU have overseas departments that are core parts of the country and which are within the EU but outside Europe.  In the case of melilla and cueta these areas are part of mainland Spanish regions rather than legally separate.

Greenland was part of the EU. Prior to them leaving Denmark was on the above list.

Algeria joins the UK as a country that has left the EU (EEC, EC) entirely but unlike UK Algeria has never had territory in Europe.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

When it comes to beer these agreements are very much the slop tray of trade. Probably costs more to negotiate than any economic benefit. After the next election they won't be mentioned again.

Yes - oddly there actually is some discussion between US and UK on the bones of a real trade deal - but it includes us importing US agricultural products (yes those hormones and similar which of course they to sell us) which will of course completely undermine our farmers. It won't happen as not a vote winner for exactly that reason. Can't think why LYB doesn't know this.

[Barbe bleu 844]

51 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I always recall being in Tahiti - and using the Euro!

BBs question was surely a trick question as too obvious to bother answer (27, 1 (us) ).

Not a trick question at all.  If you fancy a trip to Algiers to tell them that they are not a real country and that they are all really French, be my guest!

Tahiti is not part of the EU but has a special relationship with it

[A Load of Squit 5,314]

4 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

I stand to be corrected but...

3 (France, slDpain and Portugal)countries in the EU have overseas departments that are core parts of the country ans which are within the EU but outside Europe.  In the case of melilla and cueta these areas are part of mainland Spanish regions rather than legally separate.

Greenland was part of the EU. Prior to them leaving Denmark was on the above list.

Algeria joins the UK as a country that has left the EU (EEC, EC) entirely but unlike UK has algeria has never had territory in Europe.

You might have a point but as this reads as gibberish it's hard to tell.

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

7 minutes ago, Barbe bleu said:

Not a trick question at all.  If you fancy a trip to Algiers to tell them that they are not a real country and that they are all really French, be my guest!

Tahiti is not part of the EU but has a special relationship with it

Yes but equally Algeria became independent of France in '62 and as such automatically left the EEC. Not quite the same thing as formally withdrawing from the EU. Algeria as an independent country had never been part of it!

Quick Wiki search - 

Currently, the United Kingdom is the only former member state to have withdrawn from the European Union. The process to do so began when the UK Government triggered Article 50 to begin the UK's withdrawal from the EU on 29 March 2017 following a June 2016 referendum, and the withdrawal was scheduled in law to occur on 29 March 2019.^[2] Subsequently, the UK sought, and was granted, a number of Article 50 extensions until 31 January 2020. On 23 January 2020, the withdrawal agreement was ratified by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and on 29 January 2020 by the European Parliament. The UK left the EU on 31 January 2020 at 23:00 GMT ending 47 years of membership.^[3][4]

Four territories of EU member states have withdrawn: French Algeria (in 1962, upon independence),^[5] Greenland (in 1985, following a referendum),^[6] Saint Pierre and Miquelon (also in 1985, unilaterally)^[7] and Saint Barthélemy (in 2012),^[8] the latter three becoming Overseas Countries and Territories of the European Union.

Edited October 4, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Barbe bleu 844]

2 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

You might have a point but as this reads as gibberish it's hard to tell.

Stupid

[Barbe bleu 844]

3 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes but equally Algeria became independent of France in '62 and as such automatically left the EEC. Not quite the same thing as formally withdrawing from the EU. Algeria as an independent country had never been part of it!

Quick Wiki search - 

Currently, the United Kingdom is the only former member state to have withdrawn from the European Union. The process to do so began when the UK Government triggered Article 50 to begin the UK's withdrawal from the EU on 29 March 2017 following a June 2016 referendum, and the withdrawal was scheduled in law to occur on 29 March 2019.^[2] Subsequently, the UK sought, and was granted, a number of Article 50 extensions until 31 January 2020. On 23 January 2020, the withdrawal agreement was ratified by the Parliament of the United Kingdom, and on 29 January 2020 by the European Parliament. The UK left the EU on 31 January 2020 at 23:00 GMT ending 47 years of membership.^[3][4]

Four territories of EU member states have withdrawn: French Algeria (in 1962, upon independence),^[5] Greenland (in 1985, following a referendum),^[6] Saint Pierre and Miquelon (also in 1985, unilaterally)^[7] and Saint Barthélemy (in 2012),^[8] the latter three becoming Overseas Countries and Territories of the European Union.

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Algerian sovereignty was recognised by France and algeria in March 1962. France recognised it as fully independent on 3 July 1962 but algerian leaders did not make a formal declaration of independence until 5 July 1962.

Algeria became a member of the UN on 8 October, although some states recognised its independence in the 1950s.

Putting date on when algeria come about is therefore problematic, so it's easier to look at what the EEC /EC/EU says about it. If we assume that algeria did not exist before 5 July  and that there is no particular magic in UN membership (whatever they say on 'pointless')  then it remains the fact that although algeria was specifically included in the Treaty of Rome it is not until 1976 that the instruments of the EEC begin to regard it as separate and not until 1990 that reference to Algeria is taken out of the EC 

If you want a Wikipedia reference here it is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria–European_Union_relations

Edited October 4, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[Yellow Fever 3,881]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

It's a bit more complicated than that.

Algerian sovereignty was recognised by France and algeria in March 1962. France recognised it as fully independent on 3 July 1962 but algerian leaders did not make a formal declaration of independence until 5 July 1962.

Algeria became a member of the UN on 8 October, although some states recognised its independence in the 1950s.

Putting date on when algeria come about is therefore problematic, so it's easier to look at what the EEC /EC/EU says about it. If we assume that algeria did not exist before 5 July  and that there is no particular magic in UN membership (whatever they say on 'pointless')  then it remains the fact that although algeria was specifically included in the Treaty of Rome it is not until 1976 that the instruments of the EEC begin to regard it as separate and not until 1990 that reference to Algeria is taken out of the EC 

If you want a Wikipedia reference here it is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algeria–European_Union_relations

Yes but we're in danger of arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin

In all the ways that matter only the UK has formally left the EU/EEC as a fully constituted sovereign state and not as some colonial fall-out. Greenland and Algeria are oddities. There remain bits of UK, Spain, Netherlands (?) and indeed France all over the world in these timescales. How many countries have left the UK Commonwealth etc. 

Edited October 4, 2023 by Yellow Fever
angels nor angles !

[benchwarmer 625]

5 hours ago, A Load of Squit said:

Greenland left the EU.

 

Greenland became independent of Danish rule, thereby leaving the EU by default.

[Barbe bleu 844]

38 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

Greenland became independent of Danish rule, thereby leaving the EU by default.

Did they leave by default or did they choose go be outside ?  A  territory with massive fisheries but little else that is exploitable might choose to leave

[Barbe bleu 844]

46 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes but we're in danger of arguing how many angles can dance on the head of a pin

'Ti's true, but this thread is about 27 years old and 59 million words have been dedicated to exactly how many % points of gdp were lost in the period 15th-32nd octobruary 2017 and what precisely is a memorandum of understanding so I thought algeria 🇩🇿  might make for a nice detour