Yellow Fever 3,783 Posted September 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Jools said: First major post-Brexit free trade dealĀ šĀ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-japan-trade-deal-brexit-agreement-eu-b421841.htmlĀ š¬š§šÆšµ š The questionĀ is of course what has Japan givenĀ thatĀ matters - and what have we? MostĀ of our gains are itĀ seems trivialĀ - Stilton! My guess isĀ that Japan got what it wanted - fasterĀ removal of auto tariffs than ourĀ EU counterparts. ThatĀ gives more options for them on 'Nissan' etc and bringing car manufacturing homeĀ not elsewhere. We shall see š Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,164 Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, BigFish said: @BroadstairsR I find your more reasoned approach on this thread quite refreshing. On this point though I am not sure that a 2018 article from the Express really moves your argument forward. Demographers deal in populations rather than individuals. Danny Dorling's work points to the core of the Brexiteer population being Southern English, rural or suburban, older and for a variety of reasons having fewer educational qualifications. That is not a jibe and it doesn't imply that Brexiteers have more limited abilities because that is not captured in the figures. Also, it is not a uniform description of every Brexiteer. That is a lot we can learn from this, but the research indicates that this representation is true. I added a bit later that you did not get. Please refer back. Ā "Briefings for Brexit"does existĀ beyond the imagination of the Daily Express and is continually active. Perhaps you may even be induced into visiting their site. I rarely visit this threadĀ and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the blandĀ and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for. Edited September 11, 2020 by BroadstairsR Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187 Posted September 11, 2020 43 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said: I added a bit later that you did not get. Please refer back. Ā "Briefings for Brexit"does existĀ beyond the imagination of the Daily Express and is continually active. Perhaps you may even be induced into visiting their site. I rarely visit this threadĀ and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the blandĀ and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for. I am sure many who voted for Brexit had their reasons and beliefs which they are quite entitled toĀ The issue of not knowing what was voted for, to me, refers clearly to what exactly we replace our relationship with the EU with. This is still unknown even nowĀ Vote Leave stated the UK would be part of a Free trade area, yet we could leave with no dealĀ To be honest, if I had felt that the aims stated by vote leave could have been achieved with some ease, I might have been tempted to vote for Brexit myselfĀ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 11, 2020 https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1334213/brexit-news-brexit-trade-deal-japan-eu-trade-deal-talks?fbclid=IwAR36E7XFNbUt0WVHE1Vwgx-UoS28zgtQ2zkD1OB7xeXVwXuvww6cr61qY-c Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,162 Posted September 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1334213/brexit-news-brexit-trade-deal-japan-eu-trade-deal-talks?fbclid=IwAR36E7XFNbUt0WVHE1Vwgx-UoS28zgtQ2zkD1OB7xeXVwXuvww6cr61qY-c Blessed are the cheesemakers. Ā 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,764 Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said: The questionĀ is of course what has Japan givenĀ thatĀ matters - and what have we? MostĀ of our gains are itĀ seems trivialĀ - Stilton! My guess isĀ that Japan got what it wanted - fasterĀ removal of auto tariffs than ourĀ EU counterparts. ThatĀ gives more options for them on 'Nissan' etc and bringing car manufacturing homeĀ not elsewhere. We shall see š Ā I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.Ā Ā š I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage.Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,517 Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, BigFish said: @BroadstairsR I find your more reasoned approach on this thread quite refreshing. On this point though I am not sure that a 2018 article from the Express really moves your argument forward. Demographers deal in populations rather than individuals. Danny Dorling's work points to the core of the Brexiteer population being Southern English, rural or suburban, older and for a variety of reasons having fewer educational qualifications. That is not a jibe and it doesn't imply that Brexiteers have more limited abilities because that is not captured in the figures. Also, it is not a uniform description of every Brexiteer. That is a lot we can learn from this, but the research indicates that this representation is true. I also felt that the article in such a paper as The Express indeed detracts from the argument. This is the paper where anti EU headlines emerge daily, without fail, many of them sensationalist and certainly antagonistic. It makes me wonder just who is influenced by these articles. Or who is going to benefit financially (ownership). It almost feels like something quite un-English reading that paper! An irony obviously. Open-minded, curious, balanced? Can those terms be used? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,517 Posted September 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Herman said: I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.Ā Ā š I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage.Ā I think it's important that every trade deal has a cheese involved for Truss. Cheshire I think will be important for Australia and Wensleydale for India. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barbe bleu 826 Posted September 11, 2020 Over the last two pages I fear that something resembling a sensible, reasoned and evidenced debate had started to break out ( although i can't quite bring myself to do anything other than scan over them just yet) This needs to stop. The whole point of the thread was to adoptĀ superior and arrogant tones; pointlessly exchange insults; anger one another and; further entrench positions at the extremes. What part of these aims are people no longer getting? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said: Blessed are the cheesemakers. Ā Remouners were saying it wound take years to complete, yet we've now got a better deal than the EU Of course it starts on the 1st of January as is the law laid down by the EUĀ š” Edited September 11, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BroadstairsR 2,164 Posted September 11, 2020 It all sounds far too good to be true. Ā Let's hope and prey that this is something that will materialiseĀ in as full a mannerĀ as it has beenĀ Ā portrayed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 11, 2020 They only started talking on the 9th June, It just shows how easy it is when both sides want a straight forward deal. (EU pay attention) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yellow Fever 3,783 Posted September 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Herman said: I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.Ā Ā š I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage.Ā Oddly - despite Truss's pleading theyĀ refused the cheese !Ā It'sĀ good we've managed to rollover most of the the EU deal - especially as I manufactureĀ now in Japan!Ā ThatĀ said - amusedĀ atĀ all the governmentĀ claiming its the greatestĀ dealĀ ever. Really small (Asaki) beer. Trick is to look at what Japan got out of the deal as they haven't really givenĀ anythingĀ away that mattered toĀ themĀ Ā - yes we canĀ sell them more more whisky and some agriculturalĀ products which they need anywayĀ Ā š Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,764 Posted September 11, 2020 I read currently it is about 0.07 of gdp. It's good news for the radio control and model nuts out there. The Japanese make some of the best products out there, so they may become a bit cheaper.Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,517 Posted September 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, Herman said: I read currently it is about 0.07 of gdp. It's good news for the radio control and model nuts out there. The Japanese make some of the best products out there, so they may become a bit cheaper.Ā Ah ....so this is what Leadsom meant when she said "I want to guide Britain to the sunlit uplands". All is now falling into place in this dense head of mine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,162 Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: They only started talking on the 9th June, It just shows how easy it is when both sides want a straight forward deal. (EU pay attention) It took them all that time to photocopy the Japan EU deal, cross out EU and write in UK. Most of the leg work had been done by the EU. Ā 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sonyc 5,517 Posted September 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said: It took them all that time to photocopy the Japan EU deal, cross out EU and write in UK. Most of the leg work had been done by the EU. Ā Indeed, we already had a deal with Japan in the EU! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,764 Posted September 11, 2020 44 minutes ago, sonyc said: Ah ....so this is what Leadsom meant when she said "I want to guide Britain to the sunlit uplands". All is now falling into place in this dense head of mine. What could have been if the Tories hadn't have chosen May. Happily sitting here in the world's strongest economy with the EU disintegrating, Leadsom standing like the Collossus she should have been, the world in her hands. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 11, 2020 5 hours ago, BroadstairsR said: I rarely visit this threadĀ and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the blandĀ and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for. Perhaps the challenge is not that whether Brexiteers knew what they voted for but rather whether they will get what they voted for? The UK's relationship with the EU is technical, complex and nuanced. Most of the electorate are not well versed in this, they have lives to live, they lack the analysis skills or basically cannot be arsed. This applies to both Leavers and Remainers. We elect governments to deal with this stuff for us and if we don't get what we want we elect new governments. I suspect we both agree that the current government lacks the capability to deliver any kind of successful future relationship. Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said: Oddly - despite Truss's pleading theyĀ refused the cheese ! Large majority (70-95%?) of Japanese are lactose intolerant. I think Truss missed this. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 11, 2020 3 hours ago, sonyc said: Indeed, we already had a deal with Japan in the EU! we have a better deal than the EUĀ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187 Posted September 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said: we have a better deal than the EUĀ We don't have aĀ tunnel to Japan š 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herman 9,764 Posted September 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said: We don't have aĀ tunnel to Japan š Don't tell Johnson. You'll give the eejit ideas. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187 Posted September 11, 2020 I see you are confused @SwindonCanary Its good we have aĀ deal with Japan, but it's thousands of miles awayĀ The EU is on our doorstep, we have a tunnel that links usĀ and a multitude of ferry routes.Ā Not having a proper free trade deal with my friends inĀ Europe (IĀ respect your opinion that they are not your friends) threatens disruption in our own countryĀ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted September 11, 2020 āThe UK has secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UKās first major trade deal as an independent trading nation and will increase trade with Japan by an estimated Ā£15.2billion" Spread over what timeframeĀ Ā - a month, a year a decade? Really poor reporting this - but that isĀ to be expected from the Express.Ā Congratulations all round nonethelessĀ but a GDP increase of 0.07% is not really moving the needle is it? If we lose 10% thru leaving the EU, we only have to make up 9.03% now from the US (who just told us to get stuffed) and China Ā - everyone else is a minnow.Ā Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
A Load of Squit 5,162 Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said: we have a better deal than the EUĀ In what way is it better? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SwindonCanary 455 Posted September 11, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said: In what way is it better? both sides have tried to add some "extras", which include sections on digital trade and financial services. Edited September 11, 2020 by SwindonCanary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigFish 1,986 Posted September 11, 2020 1 hour ago, Surfer said: āThe UK has secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UKās first major trade deal as an independent trading nation and will increase trade with Japan by an estimated Ā£15.2billion" Spread over what timeframeĀ Ā - a month, a year a decade? Really poor reporting this - but that isĀ to be expected from the Express.Ā Congratulations all round nonethelessĀ but a GDP increase of 0.07% is not really moving the needle is it? If we lose 10% thru leaving the EU, we only have to make up 9.03% now from the US (who just told us to get stuffed) and China Ā - everyone else is a minnow.Ā Ā 80% of the increased trade is Japan increasing their exports to the UK e.g. Ā£12 billion only 20% is the UK exporting to Japan, a mighty Ā£3 billion per year or 0.07% of GDP. Oh and it will enable Japan close its' motor manufacturing in the UK without a loss of sales as Swindon knows so well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted September 12, 2020 So we just agreed to increase our trade deficit with Japan by Ā£9 billion per year? With trade negotiators like that who needs enemies?Ā Share this post Link to post Share on other sites