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Jools

The Positive Brexit Thread

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2 hours ago, Jools said:

The question is of course what has Japan given that matters - and what have we? Most of our gains are it seems trivial - Stilton!

My guess is¬†that Japan got what it wanted - faster¬†removal of auto tariffs than our¬†EU counterparts. That¬†gives more options for them on 'Nissan' etc and bringing car manufacturing home¬†not elsewhere. We shall see ūüôā

 

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25 minutes ago, BigFish said:

@BroadstairsR I find your more reasoned approach on this thread quite refreshing. On this point though I am not sure that a 2018 article from the Express really moves your argument forward. Demographers deal in populations rather than individuals. Danny Dorling's work points to the core of the Brexiteer population being Southern English, rural or suburban, older and for a variety of reasons having fewer educational qualifications. That is not a jibe and it doesn't imply that Brexiteers have more limited abilities because that is not captured in the figures. Also, it is not a uniform description of every Brexiteer. That is a lot we can learn from this, but the research indicates that this representation is true.

I added a bit later that you did not get.

Please refer back.

 

"Briefings for Brexit"does exist beyond the imagination of the Daily Express and is continually active.

Perhaps you may even be induced into visiting their site.

I rarely visit this thread and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the bland  and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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43 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I added a bit later that you did not get.

Please refer back.

 

"Briefings for Brexit"does exist beyond the imagination of the Daily Express and is continually active.

Perhaps you may even be induced into visiting their site.

I rarely visit this thread and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the bland  and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for.

I am sure many who voted for Brexit had their reasons and beliefs which they are quite entitled to 

The issue of not knowing what was voted for, to me, refers clearly to what exactly we replace our relationship with the EU with. This is still unknown even now 

Vote Leave stated the UK would be part of a Free trade area, yet we could leave with no deal 

To be honest, if I had felt that the aims stated by vote leave could have been achieved with some ease, I might have been tempted to vote for Brexit myself 

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1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

The question is of course what has Japan given that matters - and what have we? Most of our gains are it seems trivial - Stilton!

My guess is¬†that Japan got what it wanted - faster¬†removal of auto tariffs than our¬†EU counterparts. That¬†gives more options for them on 'Nissan' etc and bringing car manufacturing home¬†not elsewhere. We shall see ūüôā

 

I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.¬†¬†ūüėÄ

I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage. 

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1 hour ago, BigFish said:

@BroadstairsR I find your more reasoned approach on this thread quite refreshing. On this point though I am not sure that a 2018 article from the Express really moves your argument forward. Demographers deal in populations rather than individuals. Danny Dorling's work points to the core of the Brexiteer population being Southern English, rural or suburban, older and for a variety of reasons having fewer educational qualifications. That is not a jibe and it doesn't imply that Brexiteers have more limited abilities because that is not captured in the figures. Also, it is not a uniform description of every Brexiteer. That is a lot we can learn from this, but the research indicates that this representation is true.

I also felt that the article in such a paper as The Express indeed detracts from the argument.

This is the paper where anti EU headlines emerge daily, without fail, many of them sensationalist and certainly antagonistic.

It makes me wonder just who is influenced by these articles. Or who is going to benefit financially (ownership).

It almost feels like something quite un-English reading that paper! An irony obviously.

Open-minded, curious, balanced? Can those terms be used?

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8 minutes ago, Herman said:

I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.¬†¬†ūüėÄ

I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage. 

I think it's important that every trade deal has a cheese involved for Truss.

Cheshire I think will be important for Australia and Wensleydale for India.

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Over the last two pages I fear that something resembling a sensible, reasoned and evidenced debate had started to break out ( although i can't quite bring myself to do anything other than scan over them just yet)

This needs to stop.

The whole point of the thread was to adopt superior and arrogant tones; pointlessly exchange insults; anger one another and; further entrench positions at the extremes.

What part of these aims are people no longer getting?

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

Blessed are the cheesemakers.

 

Remouners were saying it wound take years to complete, yet we've now got a better deal than the EU Of course it starts on the 1st of January as is the law laid down by the EU¬†ūüė°

Edited by SwindonCanary

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It all sounds far too good to be true.

 

Let's hope and prey that this is something that will materialise  in as full a manner as it has been  portrayed.

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They only started talking on the 9th June, It just shows how easy it is when both sides want a straight forward deal. (EU pay attention)

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2 hours ago, Herman said:

I thought the Stilton thing was a little joke on your behalf.¬†¬†ūüėÄ

I just hope the Japanese haven't heard about our tearing up of international agreements as this is still only in the in principle stage. 

Oddly - despite Truss's pleading they refused the cheese ! 

It's good we've managed to rollover most of the the EU deal - especially as I manufacture now in Japan! 

That¬†said - amused¬†at¬†all the government¬†claiming its the greatest¬†deal¬†ever. Really small (Asaki) beer. Trick is to look at what Japan got out of the deal as they haven't really given¬†anything¬†away that mattered to¬†them¬†¬†- yes we can¬†sell them more more whisky and some agricultural¬†products which they need anyway¬†¬†ūüėČ

 

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I read currently it is about 0.07 of gdp. It's good news for the radio control and model nuts out there. The Japanese make some of the best products out there, so they may become a bit cheaper. 

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9 minutes ago, Herman said:

I read currently it is about 0.07 of gdp. It's good news for the radio control and model nuts out there. The Japanese make some of the best products out there, so they may become a bit cheaper. 

Ah ....so this is what Leadsom meant when she said "I want to guide Britain to the sunlit uplands".

All is now falling into place in this dense head of mine.

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1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

They only started talking on the 9th June, It just shows how easy it is when both sides want a straight forward deal. (EU pay attention)

It took them all that time to photocopy the Japan EU deal, cross out EU and write in UK.

Most of the leg work had been done by the EU.

 

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7 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It took them all that time to photocopy the Japan EU deal, cross out EU and write in UK.

Most of the leg work had been done by the EU.

 

Indeed, we already had a deal with Japan in the EU!

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44 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Ah ....so this is what Leadsom meant when she said "I want to guide Britain to the sunlit uplands".

All is now falling into place in this dense head of mine.

What could have been if the Tories hadn't have chosen May. Happily sitting here in the world's strongest economy with the EU disintegrating, Leadsom standing like the Collossus she should have been, the world in her hands.

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5 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

I rarely visit this thread and have posted on the matter with some infrequency in the past. What ignited my reaction this time around was the bland  and insulting statement that Brexiteers did not know what they were voting for.

Perhaps the challenge is not that whether Brexiteers knew what they voted for but rather whether they will get what they voted for? The UK's relationship with the EU is technical, complex and nuanced. Most of the electorate are not well versed in this, they have lives to live, they lack the analysis skills or basically cannot be arsed. This applies to both Leavers and Remainers. We elect governments to deal with this stuff for us and if we don't get what we want we elect new governments. I suspect we both agree that the current government lacks the capability to deliver any kind of successful future relationship.

 

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2 hours ago, Yellow Fever said:

Oddly - despite Truss's pleading they refused the cheese !

Large majority (70-95%?) of Japanese are lactose intolerant. I think Truss missed this.

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9 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

We don't have a¬† tunnel to Japan ūüėü

Don't tell Johnson. You'll give the eejit ideas.

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I see you are confused @SwindonCanary

Its good we have a  deal with Japan, but it's thousands of miles away 

The EU is on our doorstep, we have a tunnel that links us  and a multitude of ferry routes. 

Not having a proper free trade deal with my friends in  Europe (I  respect your opinion that they are not your friends) threatens disruption in our own country 

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“The UK has secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UK’s first major trade deal as an independent trading nation and will increase trade with Japan by an estimated £15.2billion"

Spread over what timeframe  - a month, a year a decade? Really poor reporting this - but that is to be expected from the Express. 

Congratulations all round nonetheless but a GDP increase of 0.07% is not really moving the needle is it? If we lose 10% thru leaving the EU, we only have to make up 9.03% now from the US (who just told us to get stuffed) and China  - everyone else is a minnow. 

 

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1 hour ago, A Load of Squit said:

In what way is it better?

both sides have tried to add some "extras", which include sections on digital trade and financial services.

Edited by SwindonCanary

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1 hour ago, Surfer said:

“The UK has secured a free trade agreement with Japan, which is the UK’s first major trade deal as an independent trading nation and will increase trade with Japan by an estimated £15.2billion"

Spread over what timeframe  - a month, a year a decade? Really poor reporting this - but that is to be expected from the Express. 

Congratulations all round nonetheless but a GDP increase of 0.07% is not really moving the needle is it? If we lose 10% thru leaving the EU, we only have to make up 9.03% now from the US (who just told us to get stuffed) and China  - everyone else is a minnow. 

 

80% of the increased trade is Japan increasing their exports to the UK e.g. £12 billion only 20% is the UK exporting to Japan, a mighty £3 billion per year or 0.07% of GDP.

Oh and it will enable Japan close its' motor manufacturing in the UK without a loss of sales as Swindon knows so well.

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So we just agreed to increase our trade deficit with Japan by £9 billion per year? With trade negotiators like that who needs enemies? 

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