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Fan buy out?

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If the club can get supporters to oversubscribe to an investment in the academy, how hard would it be to get enough supporters to invest in a club buy out?

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I don''t think you''d need a buy out but if we are going self funding I''d love to see the owners put up a % of their shares that would bring an end to their majority ownership. A fan consortium owning 20% or so of the club with a seat on the board would be good.

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All 25,000 of us would have to chuck in around £3,000 each to stand even a chance!

Would you pay £3,000 to have a 1 in 25,000s voice? The few that post on here can''t agree for toffee it''d be a bloodbath.

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I suggested crowdfunding ages ago. Just think of how much better off we’d be if we raised the money to buy Delia and Michaels shares. How much more would we have to chuck in each (zero return ever, all heading directly into the pockets of people that are already vastly richer than you’ll ever be) in order to be “competitive” at this level? Remember being mid table isn’t competitive - I’ve seen it regularly described as a disgrace for NCFC today; so how much will we need?

How many of the people that bought the bond with the attached risks would contribute an equal amount to a project with a 0% return on investment?

I’m in....

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IT can work. Barcelona and Real Madrid are run in such a way.

And clubs in Germany gave to gave at least seven owners of sharEs without one having a majority share.

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[quote user="king canary"]Id assume any consortium would pay the going rate for the shares Nutty.[/quote]
So are you going to be part of this consortium Kingo?
Who else is in?

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We have way to many mediocre fans who enjoy mediocrity to ever make this work

We need a stinking rich self made investor who has achieved this in a difficult investment environment like say a communist country

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[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]I suggested crowdfunding ages ago. Just think of how much better off we’d be if we raised the money to buy Delia and Michaels shares. How much more would we have to chuck in each (zero return ever, all heading directly into the pockets of people that are already vastly richer than you’ll ever be) in order to be “competitive” at this level? Remember being mid table isn’t competitive - I’ve seen it regularly described as a disgrace for NCFC today; so how much will we need?

How many of the people that bought the bond with the attached risks would contribute an equal amount to a project with a 0% return on investment?

I’m in....[/quote]It''s called consolidating, just as clubs like West Brom have done in the PLAnd we don''t want a load of squabbling fans owning and trying to run the club, as for one their isn''t enough room around the boardroom table.And what would happen if we followed the Ipswich Town model - the ground would be half empty as the owners would be hiding in Barbados (or somewhere)We need proper ''hinvestors'', furriners who don''t see the club as something to use to launder money, but to just simply give money so they can make supporters of a club they have never heard off before very happyOdd though that British ''hinvestors'' don''t buy up Chinese football clubs

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From Bundesliga

"Football in Germany is popular for many reasons: top-quality play, the highest average attendances in world football, low ticket prices and a great fan culture. A major contributing factor in this is the 50+1 ownership rule."

bundesliga.com takes a closer look at exactly how and why it works...

“The German spectator traditionally has close ties with his club,” Borussia Dortmund CEO Hans-Joachim Watzke said in 2016. “And if he gets the feeling that he’s no longer regarded as a fan but instead as a customer, we’ll have a problem.”

The 50+1 rule guards against this. In short, it means that clubs – and, by extension, the fans - hold a majority of their own voting rights. Under German Football League [DFL] rules, football clubs will not be allowed to play in the Bundesliga if commercial investors have more than a 49 percent stake.

In essence, this means that private investors cannot take over clubs and potentially push through measures that prioritise profit over the wishes of supporters. The ruling simultaneously protects against reckless owners and safeguards the democratic customs of German clubs.

Historically, German teams were not-for-profit organisations run by members’ associations, and until 1998 private ownership of any kind was prohibited. The 50+1 rule, which was introduced that year, helps explain why debts and wages are under control and why ticket prices remain so low compared to other major leagues in Europe.

As Watzke argued, the upshot of the system is that fans are usually not taken for granted.

“The 50+1 rule does significantly more good than harm in Germany,” Watzke told SportBild, before suggesting that most prospective private investors would primarily be motivated by profits.

“Most clubs won’t get a Roman Abramovich, who in the first place wants to see Chelsea winning. Most of the investors want to earn money. And where do they get it from? The spectators.”

“Germany is proof that financial health, an equal league, teams that are competitive internationally and a world-class national team are all possible, and it’s because German football has a thought-out concept and the courage to stick to those traditional footballing values and clubs’ local roots with the 50+1 rule.”

The statute allows the ideal mix of external investment while ensuring that the members – the fans – remain at the heart of football in Germany. They are the ones behind the packed-out modern stadia and the electric yet family-friendly atmospheres. In 2016/17 alone, some 12.7 million supporters passed through top-flight turnstiles to support THEIR clubs. And all that without breaking the bank.

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king canary wrote the following post at 02/04/2018 9:46 PM:

German, coach, German players, I''ll take the German ownership model as well.

It works for them in their regulated environment.

Swansea supporters trust obviosly had a dabble at a time of crises and where the money wasnt of the same magnitude.

No idea if something like the 51 model could work here, interesting though.

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In all seriousness with the Stowmarket 2 on record as having said they don;t expect a return on their money and that they are custodians for the fans it would be very interesting to see what their reaction would be were a fans cooperative able to cobble together enough cash to make them a reaosnable offer for their shares that saw them effectively "get their money back." It wouldn''t be easy but I think there would be a lot of fans willing to put a bit of cash in to "buy" the club for the fans.

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Brilliant. Then what?

The “Stowmarket 2” are constantly maligned as being too poor for us to be competitive but now we want to pass a hat round to try and “cobble together” enough to buy them out? Best keep that hat to hand, or would it still be a begging bowl?

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Not sure if it is ever likely to happen, but one way would be to issue new equity, rather than "buy out" the current owners. If the club issued a large number of new shares so that the fans (through a trust) had a "deciding minority*" we would be able to have a direct say on the governance of the club as well as raise many millions of pounds.TBH, I don''t think that enough fans would "give**" (which effectively it would be) money to the club to make this likely.* the number of shares held by a trust was necessary to give any other shareholder a majority.** The bond scheme, no matter how it is described as scrounging by the usual subjects, is a perfectly respectable investment rather than asking the fans to bail them out

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Much more practical is that we are embraced by one of the bigger Norwich businesses who put capital into the club in return for total sponsorship, a shareholding and representation on the board.

The biggest ones are: Anglia Aviation Holdings Limited (worth GBP 20000000), Anglia Aviation Assets Limited (valued GBP 10000000) and Harber Properties Limited (worth GBP 7788282).

Unlikely they would be the slightest bit interested though or that such an interest would benefit them a lot. Not their field so to speak.

I''ll bet a lot of their employees are City fans though.

Even Aviva was ultimately luke warm and they are directly involved with the buying customer countrywide.

Where is a latter day Bernard Matthews? We could do with being associated with a few more turkeys to keep those we already have company.

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@duncan

I can only speak for myself on this front but the idea of a self funded club is fine by me if it is owned (at least in a reasonable part) by the fans.

My objection to the current model is that all decisions around the direction of the club right now rest at the feet of our owners who don''t want to to fund the club anymore and have decided unilaterally that the clubs next owner and key decision maker will be their nephew based on nepotism.

If the club is a business to be passed down through their family then the owners should treat it as such- invest in key infrastructure upgrades, do what needs to be done to make it competitive and don''t expect your ''customers'' to pay hugely inflated prices for a poor product.

If the club is more than a business and an integral part of the community that they are simply ''custodians'' of then let those fans have more of a stake in it and involve them in the big decisions rather than dictating from on high.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]Thursday nights I go to the gym....[/quote]
So if I attend the Thursday meetings, can you do the Tuesday and Friday''s (I have tennis in the evening)?

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"I can only really attend board meetings on a Thursday night."Will there be tele/video-conferencing facilities for the plastics?Apples

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[quote user="Mr Apples"]"I can only really attend board meetings on a Thursday night."Will there be tele/video-conferencing facilities for the plastics?Apples[/quote]You''ll need an ifollow subscription.

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[quote user="king canary"]@duncan

I can only speak for myself on this front but the idea of a self funded club is fine by me if it is owned (at least in a reasonable part) by the fans.

My objection to the current model is that all decisions around the direction of the club right now rest at the feet of our owners who don''t want to to fund the club anymore and have decided unilaterally that the clubs next owner and key decision maker will be their nephew based on nepotism.

If the club is a business to be passed down through their family then the owners should treat it as such- invest in key infrastructure upgrades, do what needs to be done to make it competitive and don''t expect your ''customers'' to pay hugely inflated prices for a poor product.

If the club is more than a business and an integral part of the community that they are simply ''custodians'' of then let those fans have more of a stake in it and involve them in the big decisions rather than dictating from on high.[/quote]

1) It is. Delia and Michael were fans before they entered the fray.

2) You’ve just made that up. Where have they said that they no longer want to “fund the club”? They’ve taken advice from people they trust and implemented what they and the board feel is the best model for the Football club to continue being competitive in the future while safeguarding its long term existence.

3) The idea that we pay “hugely inflated prices”is a misnomer that is continually perpetuated after being presented in a bone idle piece of click bait journalism. Presented in that way, £500 looks expensive. But our cheapest season ticket must be available to at least 10,000 fans and probably more. Theoretically, the club could easily make the 50 tickets in the back corners of the upper Barclay £150, put up the rest of the tickets in the Barclay, River End, corners to £550 and we’d appear much more reasonable in the stupid table of most expensive cheapest tickets, when clearly the opposite would be true.

4) Even if we “put a fan on the board” to act as a consultant, how on Earth are “the fans” going to be consulted? Shall we have a referendum on EVERY business decision? What will the qualification be to have a vote? Even the “fan on the board” a how will we arrive at who that should be? Well, they mustn’t be well known because they’ll just be labelled as Delia’s celebrity buddies. How would we choose? Whoever it was would be lampooned by a section of the support. Christ, we can’t even all agree on whether a player is any good. Let’s face it; 99.9% of fans wouldn’t want me to be the voice on the board because they don’t agree with me. Probably 50% wouldn’t want you kingy. It’s pie in the sky that it would change anything or suddenly appease the vocal minority.

As for the dictatorial reference. Always makes me laugh. Delia stomping around the board room in jackboots, shouting at the cowering board until they all nod in agreement. “Yes, great one, we will sign the Wolfswinkel lad, I can see he was very successful for you on FIFA....” 🤪

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