Not out of August yet

[sonyc 6,145]

Things haven''t started great......Still shipping goals. Yet expectations are set so high that it smacks of either delusion or arrogance. Which is it? Hell, what kind of supporters are we that a brand new set up (and manager/ coach) cannot even have a chance to make mistakes? Written off already as not up to the demands of the Championship? He may fail, he may not. Some clubs HAVE to have poorer starts just the same as others have better ones. What do folk prefer? A fantastic start and fall away from the top half or signs of structural change? Or were we always going to walk the league? Or were we always destined to be in the top 6 and it didn''t really matter who came in and what ideas they had? Maybe many now might say they wanted Neil to stay actually? I doubt it.

The signs are not great at the moment but that''s football and the great thing is that times have the habit of changing and quite quickly. I''m shocked by our start but bored by the moaning and there will soon be one less poster in this particular place.

[king canary 8,762]

Expectations are set so high? So not getting battered 4-0 by Millwall is a high expectation? Not being in the bottom 3 after 5 games is too much to ask?

I haven''t seen anyone saying we''d walk the league but top 6 isn''t an unreasonable expectation considering the fact we finished 8th last season and had one of the best attacks in the division.

You''re right we''re not out of August we''re already 8 points off the pace for the top 2 and 5 points for the top 6.

[Herman 11,136]

A bit of Sunday morning sanity. Thanks[Y]

[Rogue Baboon 0]

Expectations are set so high?

That''s just stupid. We are getting worse game after game. We are conceding goals at an horrific rate. It has nothing to do with expectations. It has everything to do with what people have seen from the first 5 games.

12 goals conceded?

3 games lost against teams that have only beat 1 team so far - Norwich?

Too many changes every week?

Too many square pegs in round holes?

Getting hammered by a newly promoted team tipped for relegation?

Complete inability to do the basics at the back?

I don''t blame Farke 100% at all, it''s clear the defenders we have are not good enough. But at the minute Farke is like a rabbit in headlights like Neil was in the Premier League, making countless changes hoping to stumble on the answer.

We just need to go back to basics to get ourselves going.

[king canary 8,762]

@Herman

Please explain how this is sanity?

[Move Klose 303]

I don''t think expectations are set that high tho.

I think seeing the players gone being replaced by average players. I mean Murphy (Watkins), Howson (Vrancic), Dijks (Husband).

Seeing us defend just as badly as under Alex Neil.

Seeing us being 5 games in and already the highest number of goals conceded.

Going to Millwall and losing 4-0 is unacceptable.

Seeing us concede 4 goals In consecutive games.

There''s expecting people to be patient and there''s this rubbish being served up. They say a league starts to take shape after 10 games. Half way to that and it''s not shaping up to well.

We''re all hoping this all comes to fruition, blind optimism and theres not much evidence to say it''s going to be a success.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

[quote user="king canary"]Expectations are set so high? So not getting battered 4-0 by Millwall is a high expectation? Not being in the bottom 3 after 5 games is too much to ask?  [/quote]

KC is spot on with that comment. Even the most conservative of expectations should have had the results and our league position as unacceptable. For God''s sake we had one of the worst defences in the league for the last season, and right now we''re actually the worst! We''ve managed to get even worse!

[sonyc 6,145]

"The signs are not great" is a quote from my post Move Klose and therefore I agree.

As for King, maybe I am indeed insane.

[Move Klose 303]

Did you watch Leeds yesterday with there new foreign manager and foreign imports (Saiz, Alioski). Look a very good side. But hey we will be patient for ours to work out.

If given a choice between what you saw under Alan Irvine or what we are seeing now then I no which I would choose.

[Herman 11,136]

"I haven''t seen anyone saying we''d walk the league but top 6 isn''t an

unreasonable expectation considering the fact we finished 8th last

season and had one of the best attacks in the division. " It seems to have passed your attention that we have completely restructured the club, from the top to the bottom, including nearly a whole new team and coaches.Where we finished last season is completely irrelevant as most of that group has gone. Top 6 isn''t an unreasonable expectation. It''s a highly unrealistic one though.Yes, everyone agrees what is going on is terrible and Farke needs to reapraise his tactics and players quicky or he will be gone, but some seem to think that this massive trasition would be hiccup free. It ain''t. It''s going to be tough and it was always going to be tough.

[sonyc 6,145]

Agree with this sentiment too MK. Yet we are not still under Irvine. We have to wait and see if Farke can adapt and his team with it.

I would not be wanting to play Leeds at the moment. They have a desire to defend that is excellent. Plus one or two very willing attacking mids.

There are few ( if any) teams this year that I thought pre season would be a pushover. Many Fans expect though they would be a push over. Milwall was always a difficult place to go to. so was Villa. However, at the moment I just couldn''t tell you who we might beat. I have less confidence than week 1 yet haven''t given up on the team (or the aims or the ethos, unlike quite a few here).

[Move Klose 303]

We don''t have anyone any good to play left back.

Our centre halves have been awfull.

We don''t have enough steel in midfield.

Very short on striking options.

Barring Murphy are wingers offer nothing.

[Mello Yello 2,573]

Our defensive frailties/weaknesses haven''t just been evident over the last 5 or so games.......It''s been an on-going concern by many supporters for over quite a few seasons now......Goals against for the last few seasons showed where our Achilles heel was........This weakness hasn''t been addressed, so therefore we are were we are......It doesn''t take a football genius to see why we''re suffering.......

[kingsway 101]

Yes still early but losing 4-0 at a club who will take 4th from the bottom now is very worrying as is the bad tactics and the apparent unwillingness of the head coach to realise this!

Combine this with players who look ill equipped for this Division and we already look to be in a battle to stay up!

Still early days but lets be realistic, its been poor so far!

[Rogue Baboon 0]

''Millwall was always a difficult place to go to. so was Villa''

Nobody said they were not difficult places. But neither team had won a game and they both put 4 past us...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Not our of august yet.... give it a rest.

5 games in and the alarm bells are well and truely ringing. This team is more than capable of being relegated.

Webber has overseen a shake up on a scale not required, and has severely weakened our squad. It''s criminal, and he must take all the blame for this. He''s out of his depth and has shown clear incompetence. That''s if the aim is of cause to improve the squad and challenge for promotion, perhaps that isn''t aim though.

[JF 694]

king canary wrote the following post at 27/08/2017 11:13 AM:

@Herman

Please explain how this is sanity?

Hermans law. The league doesn''t start until the 10th game of the season and although there has already been 15 points to play for they don''t actually count in the final league table

[Jim Smith 2,610]

[quote user="Herman"]"I haven''t seen anyone saying we''d walk the league but top 6 isn''t an

unreasonable expectation considering the fact we finished 8th last

season and had one of the best attacks in the division. " It seems to have passed your attention that we have completely restructured the club, from the top to the bottom, including nearly a whole new team and coaches.Where we finished last season is completely irrelevant as most of that group has gone. Top 6 isn''t an unreasonable expectation. It''s a highly unrealistic one though.Yes, everyone agrees what is going on is terrible and Farke needs to reapraise his tactics and players quicky or he will be gone, but some seem to think that this massive trasition would be hiccup free. It ain''t. It''s going to be tough and it was always going to be tough.[/quote]

Well that just indicates why doing this foolish restructure to preserve Delia & co,s position is so unbelievably stupid at this point in time. This is a season where we needed to have a real crack at the top 6.

[Indy_Bones 444]

0:21:11:11:10:10:2That was Huddersfield''s record in their opening 6 games of the 15/16 season under Wagner, 3 draws and 3 losses, yet 2 seasons later they''re currently sat near the top of the PL...This isn''t about the usual BS of "why aren''t we Huddersfield", what it serves to illustrate is that Wagner took time to get settled and get the team playing effectively (they finished just 19th that season), yet after 5 games, some of our fans are already losing their minds and demanding sackings, changes, new owners, in fact pretty much anything other than being sensible and showing patience and realising that we might not have a season leading from the front, we might not even get the promotion we''d all love, but all these knee-jerk reactions, insults towards players and coaching staff, and booing in the games themselves are doing NOTHING useful.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]0:21:11:11:10:10:2That was Huddersfield''s record in their opening 6 games of the 15/16 season under Wagner, 3 draws and 3 losses, yet 2 seasons later they''re currently sat near the top of the PL...This isn''t about the usual BS of "why aren''t we Huddersfield", what it serves to illustrate is that Wagner took time to get settled and get the team playing effectively (they finished just 19th that season), yet after 5 games, some of our fans are already losing their minds and demanding sackings, changes, new owners, in fact pretty much anything other than being sensible and showing patience and realising that we might not have a season leading from the front, we might not even get the promotion we''d all love, but all these knee-jerk reactions, insults towards players and coaching staff, and booing in the games themselves are doing NOTHING useful.[/quote]

The mannor of our defeats is different. And just because Huddersfield turned it around, doesn''t mean we will. Farke is not Wagner! Pointless comparison!

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

Indy bones 👍

[king canary 8,762]

@herman

It hasn''t escaped my attention, but thanks for being patronising.

As mentioned yesterday and earlier on this thread- Leeds have new ownership, new manager with no experience in the championship and 13 new signings yet they haven''t had these struggles.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]The manner of our defeats is different. And just because Huddersfield turned it around, doesn''t mean we will. Farke is not Wagner! Pointless comparison![/quote]Lol, you really are taking the pi$$ now Lincoln.Huddersfield were pretty dire for most of the season under Wagner, they conceded 9 in their final 2 games of the season and didn''t look anywhere near promotion chasers at that point, fast forward to last season and they only spent a single week outside of the top 6!So, in essence it appeared to have taken Wagner nearly a full season to get the squad where he wanted it, with players doing what he wanted them to do, yet we can''t turn things around after a mere 5 games - seriously, you are having a giraffe.As for Farke not being Wagner, you''re right, he isn''t, but he did a damn sight better job at Dortmund 2 than Wagner did (where Dortmund didn''t care if Wagner left, but were gutted that Farke did), and on Wagner''s first season in the Champs, it would be hard for Farke to perform worse than Wagner did either, so not sure what point you were trying to make with that statement...

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Ok Indy, you keep your confidence. If your truely not concerned than fair play, but I don''t believe you.

[hogesar 10,770]

Its funny though because its always the same posters that somehow manage to go over the top, and it takes some doing because 4-0 to Millwall is bad.

The problem is, alot of the same posters im seeing predict doom and gloom predicted similarly when Lambert first came in, and when Alex Neil was announced in January. The AN one is even more pertinent because its pretty recent.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

[quote user="hogesar"]Its funny though because its always the same posters that somehow manage to go over the top, and it takes some doing because 4-0 to Millwall is bad.

The problem is, alot of the same posters im seeing predict doom and gloom predicted similarly when Lambert first came in, and when Alex Neil was announced in January. The AN one is even more pertinent because its pretty recent.[/quote]

It is funny Hoggy, because the same posters who said Adams and Gunn were the right appointments, and that Hughton and Neil needed more time, are the same posters still with their heads buried deep in the sand right now.

[Indy_Bones 444]

[quote user="lincoln canary Golden Coppel"]Ok Indy, you keep your confidence. If your truely not concerned than fair play, but I don''t believe you.[/quote]I didn''t say I wasn''t concerned Lincoln, but I''m not going to start screaming doom and gloom from the rooftops at such an early stage.If you want my concerns, here they are:Defensively we are as weak as ever. Despite the additional height of players like Zimmermann, we''re still being destroyed by route 1 football and simple balls in the air. Husband has been shocking throughout, and if I hadn''t seen him previously play well at this level, I''d wonder if we''d somehow been slipped an "Ali Dia''. Pinto has always been ropey defensively, something overlooked due to his attacking play and work rate, yet in truth he deserves far more stick than he gets. Franke has been worse than Zimmermann, which considering the level both have played at, is both as a surprise and disappointment.In midfield, Vranjic looked good in pre-season, yet now seems to be struggling with the intensity of champs games, Maddison is clearly talented (if lightweight), and whilst Wes can still be his enigmatic best, the combo of him, Madders and Vranjic is simply too powderpuff defensively for the majority of teams we''re going to play. I do rate Reed, and think he''s done ok so far, although I do think he''d be far more settled with Tettey alongside him. Similarly, I also rate Watkins as being a good signing who will have a strong season as long as he''s not having to play second fiddle to the constantly disappointing Naismith (Yes, I do think he''s a worse signing than RvW).Upfront we have the choice between the work rate, endeavour and somewhat wayward finishing of Jerome vs the technique, craft and finishing of Nelson, and whilst I think both can do a job for us this season, I''d argue we''ve used them almost completely the wrong way round at times, and certainly on current form, you can''t argue for Jerome to start over Nelson.It''s clear that Farke needs to make some adaptations to his preferred method of play, as it''s simply not going to work against some of the teams we''ll play against, yet in truth, we not only had the possession against Millwall, we had virtually everything else - apart from goals, and being able to defend (arguably the two most important factors!). We were better in the air, better in passing, better with our dribbling, had more shots on goal (with basically the same accuracy percentage) and generally were the better side, the end result was a 4-0 drubbing that we simply didn''t deserve.As I think Parma pointed out earlier in the season, if we play like we did against Sunderland (and now Millwall), can tighten up our defence, and get a little more luck with our striking, we won''t lose many games at all, but we can''t afford the individual errors that have plagued us for too long, nor can we expect Farke to get it right every week, but we have to give the squad time to fully gel, truly embrace the vision we have for the long term, and accept that whilst early results aren''t good, it''s a long old season.So, as you can see, far from being a blinkered ''happy clapper'', I''m actually a realist that sees the problems, but doesn''t expect us to evolve overnight, and I''m willing to take a bit of dross/poor results in the short term, before I start airing serious concerns about our current approach, and I certainly can''t advocate the booing of our players and manager after a mere 5 games FFS!

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Since we had not heard of the manager or players I didn''t know what to think and my honest expectations were in the 1st to 15th ish bracket given so little to pick between so many teams. As things stand I think we are 22nd so well below my worst expectations. If things don''t pick up and we are in a similar position come Christmas then incredibly league 1 and possibly administration awaits

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

That deserves two thumbs 👍👍

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

Two thumbs for indy