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Iwans Big Toe

My take on the lack of patience being shown.

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I know there is another thread about

supporters patience, but I wanted to add my two penneth worth as to

why I think there are more than a few reasons people are running

out of patience. Lets review.The first is that after

establishing ourselves in the Premier League, in the 2013/14 season

we decided to discard many of the last remnants of the Paul Lambert

team responsible for helping us achieve this. Players like Holt,

Ward, Jackson and Barnett were discarded for players considered an

upgrade. They were replaced with the likes of RVW, Johan Elmander,

Jonas Gutierrez, Joseph Yobo and Player of the Season Carlo Nash.

This total dismantling of the team that had kept our place at the top

table of English football saw us inevitably sleepwalk to relegation.

Even when it was obvious to everyone that Hughton was not getting the

level of performance from his new signings required to maintain a

place in the Premier League we were asked for patience and our

board fiddled while Rome burned leaving it far too late for any new

coach (let alone the coach of the youth team) to save us from plying

our trade in the Championship the following year.After this

disastrous, yet fully avoidable, season our CEO earned himself a nice

7 figure bonus, when 1/3 (or so) of the staff at the football club,

many of whom would have had little to no influence over events that

took place on the pitch the previous season, earned their P45 due to

relegation. In addition to this, we were asked for patience

while our board "scoured" Europe for a suitable replacement

for our previous season''s fallen leader. Once the search of Europe

was completed, our patience was rewarded with the revelation

that the best man for the job was at Colney all along. And in a move

reminiscent of when club legend Bryan Gunn was handed the managers

job, another hero from my youth, Neil Adams was set up for failure by

our BoD when he was handed a position he was woefully unequipped to

succeed at. Then once it became obvious that Adams was finding it

difficult to get the required performances out of inspired signings

like Carlos Cuellar, Jos Hooiveld, Kyle Lafferty and the often

injured Vadis, our directors dithered until January where we found

ourselves outside of the play-off places and a long way short of the

expected automatic promotion spots.

Now admittedly, at this point the BoD, completely out of character, acted decisively in appointing

Alex Neil just in time for him to turn our season round, which

culminated in a great day out at Wembley, resulting in a return to

the top flight at the first time of asking. The problems for Alex

Neil came though when, other than the addition of a couple of

midfielders, a sick note in Jarivs, a Congolese mercenary

masquerading as a striker and a Left winger that the manager was

determined to play out of position at left back, we went with many of

the same squad of players that had seen us relegated 2 seasons previous.

There was a distinct lack of the desperately needed defensive

reinforcements. This was compounded by the decision to allow Bradley

Johnson, a player that provided much needed bite, determination and

leadership to a team bereft of all of those qualities, to leave for

ยฃ7m to Derby County. The January addition of Ivo Pinto and Timm

Klose did little to assuage the belief that City had once again

missed the boat in their bid for survival. As expected, the 10

defeats in the final 15 games of the season following the end of the

January transfer window, proved that these signings were indeed far

too little far too late and City were relegated with a whimper

loosing 5 of their last 6 games. During this time yet again we were

asked for more patience, as

the BoD dithered once more over sacking a manger out of his depth,

resulting in a 2
nd

relegation in 3 years.

So if

the 2015-16 season was a mirror of the 13-14 season, our return to

the Championship after an all too brief flirtation with the top

flight also had a sense of de ja vu about it. The addition of Sergi

Canos (who was not needed as displayed by his sale 6 months later

after just 3 appearances), Alex Pritchard and Nelson Oliveira whetted

the appetite for the season, but the defensive reinforcements that we

had been crying out for since the beginning of the previous season

were still conspicuous by their absence. The season started with 6

wins 2 Draws 1 defeat but only 1 clean sheet, this was enough though to see us sit atop the league, earning

the manager a bit of patience.

Then came our trip to St James Park and despite being 3-1 up with 20

minutes to go, the defence, that all knew had been in desperate need

of new bodies to, paraphrasing a previous manager, โ€œlend the boys a

handโ€ imploded and gave away the lead with 2 injury time goals, ending in a 4-3 defeat. It was all down hill for Neil from there. And

while our Chairman fleet-footed and care-freely danced the lambada on

the BBC, City went on a run of 4 wins in 14 games, including 5

straight defeats, which put paid to any chance of promotion. Again

the Board tested our
patience

and dithered once more on the future of a manager who looked like a

deadman walking. Then in one of the most bizarre (which is saying

something for our BoD) decisions they''ve ever made, Alex Neil was

allowed to give his press conference on the eve of the Blackburn game

and he was then informed that his services were no longer required.

Alan Irvine was put in temporary charge, while the board once again

called for
patience as

they looked for the new man/men to take the club forward. Irvine did

a good job, but sadly with only ten games in charge and despite 4 win

from the last 6 games, including a 7-1 hammering of eventual play-off

finalists Reading, the board''s
patience

with Alex Neil gave Irvine too much to do with not enough time. Had a

change been made following a run of 8 defeats in 11 games, who knows

maybe Irvine could have done what Neil managed 24 months earlier and

seen us back to the top flight with a play-off win at Wembley. But

instead of acting decisively the board once again decided to go for
patience.

And

that brings us to where we are today. Now don''t get me wrong, I want

to see Farke be a success at Carrow Road. I was full of hope at the

beginning of the season. Following battling back to earn a draw at

Fulham on the opening day I was hoping for great things from a City

team that looked full of energy and focus. I hoped that the addition

of Franke and Zimmerman would add a bit of steel to our back four,

but following us shipping in 8 goals in two games and the horror show

against newly promoted Millwall yesterday I can freely declare that hope does

not spring eternal. I don''t know about you but after 4 years of

mistakes (not including previous seasons where failing after failing

lead to us ending up in League 1), I''m drained of hope and I''m

certainly about all out of patience with

the people running the club.

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That''s a good and fair post IBT, can''t argue with virtually any of it tbh.However, what I would argue is that the previous mistakes and failures over the past 4-5 years, have absolutely NOTHING to do with Webber, Farke, or any of our new players, yet they''re the one''s getting it in the neck because of frustration over what''s gone before.The reason that posters such as myself are asking for patience is because that''s precisely what our new structure deserves to be given, instead of being written off based on a couple of poor results when we''re only 5 games into the season.Hughton deserved patience after keeping us up, and sacking him 5 games into his 2nd season with us would have been harsh, yet the board did dither too much after this when it was clear nothing was changing and in fact things were getting worse, he should have gone around Xmas/New Year in order to give a new manager a chance to turn things around.Neil deserved patience, after getting us promoted (when most of us thought it was probably gone) with that incredible run of games, and sacking him 5 games into the PL season would have been harsh, yet the board did dither too much after this when it was clear nothing

was changing and in fact things were getting worse, he also should have gone

around Xmas/New Year in order to give a new manager a chance to turn

things around.Farke deserves patience, he''s walked into a club in complete restructure, with clear financial guidelines and a long-term strategy in place, and sacking him 5 games into the season would not only be harsh, it would be utter madness...

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So, to summarise, you''ve grown increasingly impatient with the board showing patience.

To take it one step further, you don''t like the board.

Cool. ๐Ÿ‘

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I agree with much of your sentiment Indy, and you will notice that nowhere in my OP do I call for the head coach to be sacked. I think that he has been given a very difficult job. What I said is that I and I think many others are out of patience with the BoD. This is why the fans are getting on to the players already. Much like the call center operative that isn''t responsible for the broadband service going down, but are the ones that get the abuse from customers, it is because those that are responsible are not accessible. The same way when the fans have had enough and people want to vent their spleen the players are going to be the first ones to get it in the neck.

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[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]So, to summarise, you''ve grown increasingly impatient with the board showing patience.

To take it one step further, you don''t like the board.

Cool. ๐Ÿ‘[/quote]Nope. I''ve run out of patience because they keep getting things wrong.Nice try though.[Y]

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you make fair comments Indy.Little bit harsh on Mbokani who genuinely wanted to be here and was head and shoulders ahead of any of our other strikers that season...If we''d had him last season i''d wager Alex Neil would still be here and we''d be a top flight club...we''ll never know!the appointment of Webber is to take the heat off the board and Farke is the fall guy. the sooner fans see that all Webber does is protect Nepotism Tom from any flack at all the better.

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It''s hard to disagree with a lot of your post, but at the end of the day, what''s gone before is done and we are where we are now. Patience probably is what we need, but whether we''ll get it? Looks doubtful.

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]So, to summarise, you''ve grown increasingly impatient with the board showing patience.

To take it one step further, you don''t like the board.

Cool. ๐Ÿ‘[/quote]Nope. I''ve run out of patience because they keep getting things wrong.Nice try though.[Y][/quote]Oh and the only time they have got it right was when they acted decisively. Once with Lambert and once with Neil. Both of which were appointments driven by McNally who has now left the club, so we can expect more dithering mistakes in the future.

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Thanks for the post Iwan.

I''m with splutcho on this, patience is needed but from what I''ve read concerning away fans reaction ATM we are heading for a repeat of last season, in quicktime.

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["Van wink"]Thanks for the post Iwan.

I''m with splutcho on this, patience is needed but from what I''ve read concerning away fans reaction ATM we are heading for a repeat of last season, in quicktime.

Repeat of last season!!!!

How we are playing with the wrong tactics that an inexperienced coach can''t see combined with below standard players we will be lucky to stay up, 8th place no chance!

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

I know there is another thread about

supporters patience, but I wanted to add my two penneth worth as to

why I think there are more than a few reasons people are running

out of patience. Lets review.The first is that after

establishing ourselves in the Premier League, in the 2013/14 season

we decided to discard many of the last remnants of the Paul Lambert

team responsible for helping us achieve this. Players like Holt,

Ward, Jackson and Barnett were discarded for players considered an

upgrade. They were replaced with the likes of RVW, Johan Elmander,

Jonas Gutierrez, Joseph Yobo and Player of the Season Carlo Nash.

This total dismantling of the team that had kept our place at the top

table of English football saw us inevitably sleepwalk to relegation.

[/quote]You mean the summer we bought Redmond, Fer, Hooper

and Olsson and got Garrido permanently? I stopped reading at that

point, on the assumption the rest was as stupidly biased.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]

I know there is another thread about

supporters patience, but I wanted to add my two penneth worth as to

why I think there are more than a few reasons people are running

out of patience. Lets review.The first is that after

establishing ourselves in the Premier League, in the 2013/14 season

we decided to discard many of the last remnants of the Paul Lambert

team responsible for helping us achieve this. Players like Holt,

Ward, Jackson and Barnett were discarded for players considered an

upgrade. They were replaced with the likes of RVW, Johan Elmander,

Jonas Gutierrez, Joseph Yobo and Player of the Season Carlo Nash.

This total dismantling of the team that had kept our place at the top

table of English football saw us inevitably sleepwalk to relegation.

[/quote]You mean the summer we bought Redmond, Fer, Hooper

and Olsson and got Garrido permanently? I stopped reading at that

point, on the assumption the rest was as stupidly biased.
[/quote]Biased? Kettle much?So do you think in all honesty our transfer dealings that season should be seen as a success? Redmond and Garrido I''ll give you, good players that offered a lot to the side and I was sad to see them go when they did. Olsson, meh, I can take take him or leave him, a constant in struggling Premier League sides. Fer, although we made a good profit when selling him on, went missing for many games that season and jumped to another sinking ship at the first available opportunity. As for Hooper 6 goals in 34 top flight games is hardly prolific is it? He''s about on a par with Robert Rosario on goals to games ratio.So I''m glad you brought it up Purple. But may I suggest thinking things through before attempting to shut down an argument because it isn''t in favour of your own biased opinion. After all that''s how fascists work.

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[quote user="Van wink"]Thanks for the post Iwan.

I''m with splutcho on this, patience is needed but from what I''ve read concerning away fans reaction ATM we are heading for a repeat of last season, in quicktime.[/quote]I understand where you and Splutcho are coming from VW, but it''s not the head coach that I have lost patience with. The point of the op is that many have shown incredible patience with the board (specifically the majority shareholders) for many years now. After countless foul-ups over the years, and the squandering of opportunity after opportunity because of their desire for "prudence" I want the owners to step aside and invite some new investment into the club. But they are just too stubborn to do so and sadly i fear that this stubbornness will end up with us playing League 1 football or worse.

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hard to be Patient when getting beaten and letting in 4 goals

how long do you continue that patience ?

i am having doubts i would not sack farke now of course but we are not getting beaten one nil here

i would really look at a 10 game target if that is met then 20 games and then 30

if we are getting turned over each week and still letting in a large amount of goals and no progress patience will be least of our troubles

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[quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]I want the owners to step aside and invite some new investment into the club. But they are just too stubborn to do so [/quote]There is NOTHING (and never has been) to stop any potential investor from contacting the club regarding a takeover, or in terms of providing investment.If Delia and MWJ don''t want to even discuss the matter, then as PC has quite rightly pointed out on other threads - the potential investor can easily go public (just like Cullum did) and look to get fans and supporters on their side.If nothing else, this forces our current owners to at least make some sort of public statement about WHY they are unwilling to talk turkey with said investor, or risk backlash from fans who will be sat in the dark wondering what the problem genuinely is, and if enough fans became unhappy with the scenario, things could quickly and easily become VERY unpleasant for our owners.AFAIK, there has been NO official offer for the club since Cullum, this would surely have had, to have been notified to shareholders, and it simply hasn''t happened, and if fans genuinely think that an owner bullishly sitting there with a ''club not for sale'' demeanour is enough to deter investors, then you don''t know how the majority of these investors made their money, and how they won''t give 2 flying forks about what the current owner''s stance is...

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It''s Norwich, a city still seen as out in the sticks, with no motorways nearby.  It is hard to change that view of the city - and as a frequent visitor (and I visit Norwich more than I visit any other city) it is still a great place to visit, but yes, it lacks clout in the money stakes.  We''ve never had a rich owner at the club - just a history of struggling to keep heads above water.   People cite Southampton - but it has always been seen as a place with more clout. Big industry, dockland, motorways nearby etc etc - much more likely to attract big money investors. And if you assume there is no-one out there who is going to get interested in a major way (otherwise we would have seen it happen before now), then the proper way forward is to run it as a self-financing business. That may not be a popular view, but with the lack of any investor coming forward and no sign of it at any time since the discredited Cullum proposal - it''s the only way!

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="Iwans Big Toe"]I want the owners to step aside and invite some new investment into the club. But they are just too stubborn to do so [/quote]There is NOTHING (and never has been) to stop any potential investor from contacting the club regarding a takeover, or in terms of providing investment.If Delia and MWJ don''t want to even discuss the matter, then as PC has quite rightly pointed out on other threads - the potential investor can easily go public (just like Cullum did) and look to get fans and supporters on their side.If nothing else, this forces our current owners to at least make some sort of public statement about WHY they are unwilling to talk turkey with said investor, or risk backlash from fans who will be sat in the dark wondering what the problem genuinely is, and if enough fans became unhappy with the scenario, things could quickly and easily become VERY unpleasant for our owners.AFAIK, there has been NO official offer for the club since Cullum, this would surely have had, to have been notified to shareholders, and it simply hasn''t happened, and if fans genuinely think that an owner bullishly sitting there with a ''club not for sale'' demeanour is enough to deter investors, then you don''t know how the majority of these investors made their money, and how they won''t give 2 flying forks about what the current owner''s stance is...[/quote]I never said that there was anything to stop potential investors contacting the club. In the same way there is nothing stopping potential buyers contacting me about buying my house. But if my house is on the market there is more likelihood of offers coming in isn''t there? And this is what I''m saying, that after foul up after foul up, going on for four years (and the rest), it''s time for the pensioners running the club to put it on the market, use the proceeds to get a nice little retirement home on the north Norfolk coast and let someone more capable do the heavy lifting.And FYI, the "bullish club not for sale demeanor" seems to be working a treat for Stan Kronke when it comes to selling Arsenal. So just because an investor doesn''t care about the stance of the current owner it doesn''t mean that they''re going to get their own way and purchase a majority share holding, just ask Alisher Usmanov.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]It''s Norwich, a city still seen as out in the sticks, with no motorways nearby.  It is hard to change that view of the city - and as a frequent visitor (and I visit Norwich more than I visit any other city) it is still a great place to visit, but yes, it lacks clout in the money stakes.  We''ve never had a rich owner at the club - just a history of struggling to keep heads above water.   People cite Southampton - but it has always been seen as a place with more clout. Big industry, dockland, motorways nearby etc etc - much more likely to attract big money investors. And if you assume there is no-one out there who is going to get interested in a major way (otherwise we would have seen it happen before now), then the proper way forward is to run it as a self-financing business. That may not be a popular view, but with the lack of any investor coming forward and no sign of it at any time since the discredited Cullum proposal - it''s the only way!

[/quote]Lakey, I find it very hard to believe that investors are not interested in buying a football club that has a sold out ground every week of nearly 30,000 supporters, that has spent 4 of the last 7 years in the top flight, just because it''s in a City surrounded by the countryside.

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[quote user="Highland Canary"]Indeed, that is a nonsense. One can only suspect that the current owners have put Grey Gables type sale conditions on the club for fellow Archers aficionados.[/quote]The people who make the cider?

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You''ve picked out one aspect of what I said, IBT, but it is one of the factors that makes our club unfashionable and it has ever been so.  We are not on the radar.  We are not in the pecking order and are never likely to be.  That Wolves and Birmingham are more attractive propositions says it all. 

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Hard to buy something when it''s been made perfectly clear, many, many times that it''s not for sale. Amazingly in the last 10 years I''ve received no offers for my house, now if I were to put it up for sale....

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[quote user="JF"]Hard to buy something when it''s been made perfectly clear, many, many times that it''s not for sale. Amazingly in the last 10 years I''ve received no offers for my house, now if I were to put it up for sale....[/quote]Being fair JF, your house is not a running business (AFAIK), nor does it have the public scrutiny, image or any of associated attractions of a high level football club (again, AFAIK).When it comes to business, good business people will make offers regardless of whether or not something is being advertised as for sale.We never said we were looking for offers for Jacob Murphy, nor did we list him on the available market, yet bizarrely Newcastle came and made us an offer despite this, fancy that!

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That''s obviously a very good point. But the fact is that there are potential buyers out there, if they are desirable or not is another debate. The owners could very easily make it clear that they are willing to listen to offers or put it up for sale. The belief that there isn''t is nonsense. They could even approach Red Bull and see if there interest in owning an English club is genuine. The reality is that they wouldn''t welcome any approach and therefore do all they can to dissuade against it. This will be pot less Toms plaything

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