Spending Power

[sgncfc 1,330]

Before we all get too down on our situation, and go all the way down that "why can''t we compete" argument can I just remind everyone about the net spend off our so-called rivals in the last two transfer windows:-

Newcastle £70.1m

Watford £56.2m

Sunderland £31.3m

Bournemouth £39.8m

Leicester £29.8m

Compared to Norwich £19.4m

This doesn''t include wages.

Generally speaking the clubs who spent the least have performed the worst - the main exceptions are Swansea, Southampton, Chelsea and Palace but they all started from a rather better base than we did.

In comparison to Norwich, the purchases of Newcastle and Sunderland have been appalling. And yes, there is a reason why Watford and Bournemouth survived.

It also underlines Leicester''s remarkable season. We would probably have thought Norwich and Leicester had pretty comparable teams at the start of the season, other than Vardy, yet they spent only £10m more than us - crucially, they spent it in the summer and we didn''t.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

Crucially, they spent it well.

It''s not an exact science but we appear to have bought comparatively poorly, again. Three games left to prove me wrong, they might just do it.

[Jacko 0]

I think people get a bit too carried away with transfer fees at times. They are important but it''s been statistically shown that in general the club''s with the biggest wage bills finish highest in the league.

We are one of the lowest payers in the league. In fact, in the bottom 3 and are therefore probably where we should statistically be. Which means that to survive we need to box clever and once again we haven''t done that with our recruitment this season - it''s been very poor again.

Not having proper scouting networks in place after last time and a scatter gun approach to signing players is pretty unforgiveable and raises a lot of questions about this transfer committee we have.

Leicester''s story is absolutely unbelievable but make no mistake. They''ve got far more money and investment than we can dream of. Just look at how much they spent getting out of the Championship.

[Well b back 3,604]

[quote user="sgncfc"]Before we all get too down on our situation, and go all the way down that "why can''t we compete" argument can I just remind everyone about the net spend off our so-called rivals in the last two transfer windows:-

Newcastle £70.1m

Watford £56.2m

Sunderland £31.3m

Bournemouth £39.8m

Leicester £29.8m

Compared to Norwich £19.4m

This doesn''t include wages.

Generally speaking the clubs who spent the least have performed the worst - the main exceptions are Swansea, Southampton, Chelsea and Palace but they all started from a rather better base than we did.

In comparison to Norwich, the purchases of Newcastle and Sunderland have been appalling. And yes, there is a reason why Watford and Bournemouth survived.

It also underlines Leicester''s remarkable season. We would probably have thought Norwich and Leicester had pretty comparable teams at the start of the season, other than Vardy, yet they spent only £10m more than us - crucially, they spent it in the summer and we didn''t.[/quote]

Not sure I agree about Vardy as at the beginning of the season. Wasn''t played by Pearson due to lack of goals and Claudio was about to sell him to Sheff Weds for £5m.

Also Villa spent big time

[mrs miggins 0]

The frustration is that we had the money but didn''t spend it

[norfolkngood 1,174]

this is a key point thinking spending 19.5 mil is enough was a silly idea

but if you can only spend 19.5 million you have to spend it very wisely thats what has let us down

klose & brady are really the only premiership class players we bought

[Crafty Canary 547]

Leicester City''s regular first team cost less than ours including Naismith and Klose. This suggests that transfer fees are not the be all and end all. What their wage bill was compared to ours I don''t know but would imagine it was much more.

[Legend Iwan 30]

The point made in the opening post about a team''s total on transfer fees indicating where you finish in the table is a false lead. You get a much closer ratio by looking at total wages to finishing position - Swansea, for instance, brought in Andre Ayew on a free transfer, which would make it look like a bargain and a small outlay in the OP''s theory. Yet, they also gave him a multi-million signing on fee and pay weekly wages just shy of six figures.

However considering how ridiculous this season has been, I don''t reckon you can rely on that kind of primitive comparison. And, let''s be honest, If we''d spent wisely in the summer, crucially improving our defence and purchasing a decent striker, I doubt we''d be in our current predicament.

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

Two questions.1). Did we spend all of the money that we had?2). Of the money that we did spend, did we spend it wisely?  I am not just talking about the £19.5m here as that was the net figure.A final point linked to the first question above.  If we do go down, I sincerely hope that McNally is not rewarded with a financial bonus on his salary again.  If we didn''t spend all of our transfer budget and had it been spent earlier and more wisely then perhaps we may not be in this predicament.  McNally is somebody who has a very large say covering all of this and it is not right that he should therefore be rewarded.  This is without even getting into the morals of him getting a bonus whilst others are made redundant.

[mrs miggins 0]

1) - A pretty resounding yes I would''ve thought

2) - AN''s signings generally imo have been decent enough, but as question 1 from norfolkbslim refers to, there just wasn''t enough of them and too late.

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

According to one of those football stats books, there''s a high correlation between player wages and league position, but no correlation between transfer fees paid and league position.  Which makes sense because wages go to your players, while transfer fees go to your competitors.

 

As for the idea of simply spending the money - see QPR for how that works out.

[PurpleCanary 6,384]

[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]Two questions.1). Did we spend all of the money that we had?2). Of the money that we did spend, did we spend it wisely?  I am not just talking about the £19.5m here as that was the net figure.A final point linked to the first question above.  If we do go down, I sincerely hope that McNally is not rewarded with a financial bonus on his salary again.  If we didn''t spend all of our transfer budget and had it been spent earlier and more wisely then perhaps we may not be in this predicament.  McNally is somebody who has a very large say covering all of this and it is not right that he should therefore be rewarded.  This is without even getting into the morals of him getting a bonus whilst others are made redundant.[/quote]1) We certainly didn''t spend all our money in the summer (the deal for a centre-back falling through very late on, and probably one for Dwight Gayle as well), which is why we had so much available in the winter.2) As to wisely, the net figure is (a point made before) a bit of an illusion as an indication of quantity and quality because we used the loan market for Mbokani (who would have cost several million outright), Jarvis  and Wisdom, and got Mulumbu on a free.Overall, taking the two windows, I would say we spent the money wisely in the sense that we filled all the gaps in the squad, but it seems as if some acquisitions (Naismith, Mulumbu and perhaps Mbokani) simply haven''t performed as well as was expected. To that has to be added the crucial failure of the high-risk summer strategy of trying for a top-class central defender (the sort-of lack of a recruitment team is a red herring in this case because that wasn''t the problem).Last time we went down McNally got a financial bonus but not a footballing one. The logic - I assume - being that we''d received Premier League money that season. If so then he shouldn''t have got a financial bonus the following season, because we had missed out on the PL cash we must have expected, but the wording of the accounts was changed (I assume deliberately) so it was impossible to tell what was the basis of the bonus he did get. I agree that if we go down he should miss out (either this season or next) on both a footballing and a financial bonus.

[GPs Beard 0]

PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 05/05/2016 2:07 PM:

norfolkbroadslim wrote:

Two questions.

1). Did we spend all of the money that we had?

2). Of the money that we did spend, did we spend it wisely? I am not just talking about the £19.5m here as that was the net figure.

A final point linked to the first question above. If we do go down, I sincerely hope that McNally is not rewarded with a financial bonus on his salary again. If we didn''t spend all of our transfer budget and had it been spent earlier and more wisely then perhaps we may not be in this predicament. McNally is somebody who has a very large say covering all of this and it is not right that he should therefore be rewarded. This is without even getting into the morals of him getting a bonus whilst others are made redundant.

1) We certainly didn''t spend all our money in the summer (the deal for a centre-back falling through very late on, and probably one for Dwight Gayle as well), which is why we had so much available in the winter.

2) As to wisely, the net figure is (a point made before) a bit of an illusion as an indication of quantity and quality because we used the loan market for Mbokani (who would have cost several million outright), Jarvis and Wisdom, and got Mulumbu on a free.

Overall, taking the two windows, I would say we spent the money wisely in the sense that we filled all the gaps in the squad, but it seems as if some acquisitions (Naismith, Mulumbu and perhaps Mbokani) simply haven''t performed as well as was expected. To that has to be added the crucial failure of the high-risk summer strategy of trying for a top-class central defender (the sort-of lack of a recruitment team is a red herring in this case because that wasn''t the problem).

Last time we went down McNally got a financial bonus but not a footballing one. The logic - I assume - being that we''d received Premier League money that season. If so then he shouldn''t have got a financial bonus the following season, because we had missed out on the PL cash we must have expected, but the wording of the accounts was changed (I assume deliberately) so it was impossible to tell what was the basis of the bonus he did get. I agree that if we go down he should miss out (either this season or next) on both a footballing and a financial bonus.

I''m a fan of McNally , or at least have been , but the vagaries of his bonus last year (keeping his package at a healthy figure north of £1m, with salary, bonus, pension contribution et al) as mentioned the wording in the accounts was subtly changed . In effect his salary was paid out in the same financial year as a significant trading loss. My accounts are at home so this is all from memory (I''m sure I will be quickly corrected if I am wrong) . Were he to be paid this year a similar bonus (in truth if he is , he will have already had it) I think a few questions could justifiably be raised. Whether there is any science behind his bonus would be very interesting. My guess is that the main science is a perceived market value ; if we don''t give him the money through whatever mechanism , he walks, which is possibly true. Halve his package, and see if he stays. I''m suggesting as even more money filters into the top two divisions someone would be prepared to pay him on past endeavours.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

This was published in The Daily Mail in March this year. Are we getting value for money is the question i ask ?

[morty 0]

The Daily Mail[:D]

[morty 0]

But 4 out of the last 5 seasons in the Premiership, a great day out at Wembley, financially secure.Whats not to like?

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Financially secure as long as we bounce straight back but as we are expected to go 5/7 million overdrawn at the bank this season ( as stated at the AGM last November by McNally ) can we look forward to the no debt mantra to continue moving forward Morty? Great day out at Wembley and although it will remain long in my memory you cannot  dine out for ever on that day.

[morty 0]

Sorry to pi$$ on any bonfires here, but we''re not relegated yet.

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Whatever Morty, but the reality of the situation will come home to roost within a week or so. Six games to go it was clearly in our hands but three successive defeats and no goals scored in my book shows we are losing our grip as the games go by and i am preparing myself for a worse case scenario.Unlike the captain of the Titantic i can see the iceberg looming on the horizon.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

" ....... as we are expected to go 5/7 million overdrawn at the bank this season ( as stated at the AGM last November by McNally )"

If that transpires, along with relegation, then heads need to roll.

Up-to-date, definite figures are needed.

We will then HAVE to sell, rather than buy in preparation for the campaign.

Eh?

[morty 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Whatever Morty, but the reality of the situation will come home to roost within a week or so. Six games to go it was clearly in our hands but three successive defeats and no goals scored in my book shows we are losing our grip as the games go by and i am preparing myself for a worse case scenario.Unlike the captain of the Titantic i can see the iceberg looming on the horizon.[/quote]And you can''t frigging wait, can you?[:D]

[TIL 1010 5,246]

Wait for what exactly ?Are you really suggesting that i want my club to be relegated and all that comes with it ? In such situations that we find ourselves history does not look kindly on us now does it ? I mean i invested in my 3 year season ticket a few months back because i wanted to secure my seat for championship football and not because at the time i thought we were moving forward. [:(]

[morty 0]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Wait for what exactly ?Are you really suggesting that i want my club to be relegated and all that comes with it ? In such situations that we find ourselves history does not look kindly on us now does it ? I mean i invested in my 3 year season ticket a few months back because i wanted to secure my seat for championship football and not because at the time i thought we were moving forward. [:(][/quote]Well you seem to have been preparing for relegation for 3 or 4 months now....

[It's Character Forming 1,204]

Anyway, I still have the feeling that the weakness in the recruiting team last summer was part of the problem. 

We focused it seems on top quality CB(s?) and weren''t able to sign one.  With a full recruiting team, we should have been able to follow up those leads while also pursuing some plan B options, so that we could have got someone in who wasn''t ideal but would have been an upgrade on Basso/RM/Bennett ?  And that would probably have made the difference by now to being where we are, and being up at the level of Palace. [:@]

[TIL 1010 5,246]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Wait for what exactly ?Are you really suggesting that i want my club to be relegated and all that comes with it ? In such situations that we find ourselves history does not look kindly on us now does it ? I mean i invested in my 3 year season ticket a few months back because i wanted to secure my seat for championship football and not because at the time i thought we were moving forward. [:(][/quote]Well you seem to have been preparing for relegation for 3 or 4 months now....[/quote]Well i suppose just two victories in fifteen games since Jan 1st does that and sort of make you think we are heading for trouble including those great trips i had to Villa and Bournemouth where total no shows made for a thoroughly miserable experience.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,790]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]" ....... as we are expected to go 5/7 million overdrawn at the bank this season ( as stated at the AGM last November by McNally )" If that transpires, along with relegation, then heads need to roll. Up-to-date, definite figures are needed. We will then HAVE to sell, rather than buy in preparation for the campaign. Eh?[/quote]

 

 

Not sure if you are being serious Broadstairs but here are some figures from the accounts.

Year End 2014 (Prem)

Profit for the year £6,740,000 (Consolidated P and L )

highest paid Director''s aggregate emoluments £1,119m inc a bonus of £367,500 for "achieving financial targets" - which given the profit seems fair  

 

Year end 2015. (Championship) 

Loss for the year £5,158,000 (Consolidated P and L )

highest paid Director''s aggregate emoluments £1.137m inc a "performance related bonus" of £551,250, you''ll note no longer "achieving financial targets" which given the loss would be crass.

 

In 2013

Aggregate emoluments etc etc £1,640m inc a bonus of £867,000. The club changed it''s year end so these figures are for 13 months - over this time the club made a small profit of £523k

 

So Mc N''s package seemingly has little to do with results or profit. That said , as I said earlier in the thread, could he achieve this sort of package elsewhere ? I suspect he could so in effect we are paying a going rate for a CEO.

What you can be certain is that when / if (I suspect when) we try and come back straight up, the loss from 2015 will be significantly exceeded. This year Championship teams are paying £9m for strikers (more than we were prepared to pay), and pay the likes of the odious Joey Barton premier league wages. If teams can duck the FFP owing to the changes then we will have to throw some serious money around. Competing against those top six teams that don''t go up this year, all of whom seem to have funds, Wigan and Mr Deep Pockets Wheelan , will need so serious wedge.

 

Lets hope for a miracle three wins in a row. Otherwise we are going to use up those well publicised parachute payments very quickly 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,790]

http://www.danielgeey.com/premier-league-parachute-payments-explained/

 

One other thing I hadn''t realised is that Clubs that are newly promoted that go straight back down only receive two years parachute? Well according to this site anyway. So we really could do with staying up. Please.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

I was actually being serious GPB as things don''t really seem quite as rosy as we all anticipate.

Thanks for your breakdown.

Three wins it is then or back to "Prudence with ambition."

Now I am not being quite as serious, BUT "bleeding money" which seems to be our way recently ( from RVW through to Mulumbu and onto Bamford and others) cannot carry on for too much longer.