The Ryan Bennett debate

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

If Ryan Bennett is 181cm tall then I''m from the planet Kpax

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

For those like me that think in old money, 181cm is just over 5foot 11" and if you believe that''s how tall he is, I''ve got this bridge you''ll want to buy....

[paddycanary 539]

I wonder could Bennett possibly be tried at right-back and see how he gets on? Brady on the other side, Jarvis in, Wes to start, Whittaker/Wisdom, Olsson and Redmond on the bench. If I was an opposition full-back, I wouldn''t like to have Redmond, Brady or Olsson coming on to run me ragged after 60/65 mins. Unlikely to see Bennett there but maybe worth considering as another option

[GJP 79]

Sounds like a terrible idea.

[chicken 0]

[quote user="hogesar"][quote user="mrs miggins"]ellis206 wrote the following post at 22/10/2015 3:15 PM:

A tall CB? He''s the shortest CB at the club.

2"s shorter than Martin and 3"s shorter than Bassong.

--------------------------------------

If thats true then I''m really confused then why he''s a better header of the ball. Perhaps its just that Martin can''t jump?[/quote]

I''m not sure he is. He looks taller, which is weird because according to the official site player profiles:

Martin : 185.4cm

Bassong : 187cm

Bennett : 181cm

So I don''t think Bennett is any taller than our current CB''s. Not sure he''s any quicker. He''s certainly not better on the ball. 

It''s starting to look more and more obvious why he hasn''t got himself into the first team as of yet.

[/quote]

According to Wikipedia, which I agree could well be a lot less accurate than our own club''s information, Bassong and Bennett are 6''2" with Martin at 6''1".

Also, defending crosses and set pieces is as much about positioning and decision making as it is about height and heading ability.

Against Newcastle, Whittaker let his man run in front of him to meet the ball. That''s not a height issue. Players were then left unmarked on other occasions - that''s communication and perception. Doesn''t matter how tall you are if you are not in the right place at the right time.

I do get why people are suggesting Bennett, he''s our only other choice at CB and to a degree, you have to wonder why he hasn''t had a stab at it when others appear to be struggling.

However, and I don''t do scapegoating, the issue is at RB. AN is persisting with a more attack minded fullback in Whittaker, but defensively he has been short in recent games. Wisdom appears, in the short time we have seen him so far, to be another full back who is better going forward. Arguably he was better in that sense than Whittaker in that Whits often struggles to serve up consistent delivery into the box.

It''s made somewhat frustrating when you look at left back where we have two quality players who can play that role in Brady and Olsson as well as a young player in Toffolo who is looking like he could make the step up to that sort of level as well.

Part of me wonders if there will be more changes elsewhere other than CB.

[Mr Jenkins 0]

Bennett must have shrunk in the wash, either that or there is some sort of optical illusion going on.

I would like to see him come in and Martin move to right back where he belongs.😄

[The Great Drinkell 50]

Mr Jenkins, you may have just answered my question - is it that people want to see RM at RB rather than to see RB at CB who is the obvious replacement?

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

For me it underlines our weakness in Defense. With the departure of Turner and others he is realistically our only decent alternative at CB. I actually think he is far better than Martin in that position and would favor the latter at RB instead. last season our defense was average at best so no surprise we are letting goals in for fun. Tettey and Mulumbu in midfield in tandem may be the way forward to give the back 4 more protection with still plenty of forward options still in the team

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]For me it underlines our weakness in Defense. With the departure of Turner and others he is realistically our only decent alternative at CB. I actually think he is far better than Martin in that position and would favor the latter at RB instead. last season our defense was average at best so no surprise we are letting goals in for fun. Tettey and Mulumbu in midfield in tandem may be the way forward to give the back 4 more protection with still plenty of forward options still in the team[/quote]It was the best in the league under Alex Neil.Reason we are shipping so many goals isn''t down to individuals, it''s down to the collective, the way we play leaves us so open to the counter attack it''s unreal, I reckon about 80% of the goals we have conceded are when we''ve been counter attacked.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="chicken"][quote user="hogesar"][quote user="mrs miggins"]ellis206 wrote the following post at 22/10/2015 3:15 PM:

A tall CB? He''s the shortest CB at the club.

2"s shorter than Martin and 3"s shorter than Bassong.

--------------------------------------

If thats true then I''m really confused then why he''s a better header of the ball. Perhaps its just that Martin can''t jump?[/quote]

I''m not sure he is. He looks taller, which is weird because according to the official site player profiles:

Martin : 185.4cm

Bassong : 187cm

Bennett : 181cm

So I don''t think Bennett is any taller than our current CB''s. Not sure he''s any quicker. He''s certainly not better on the ball. 

It''s starting to look more and more obvious why he hasn''t got himself into the first team as of yet.

[/quote]

According to Wikipedia, which I agree could well be a lot less accurate than our own club''s information, Bassong and Bennett are 6''2" with Martin at 6''1".

Also, defending crosses and set pieces is as much about positioning and decision making as it is about height and heading ability.

Against Newcastle, Whittaker let his man run in front of him to meet the ball. That''s not a height issue. Players were then left unmarked on other occasions - that''s communication and perception. Doesn''t matter how tall you are if you are not in the right place at the right time.

I do get why people are suggesting Bennett, he''s our only other choice at CB and to a degree, you have to wonder why he hasn''t had a stab at it when others appear to be struggling.

However, and I don''t do scapegoating, the issue is at RB. AN is persisting with a more attack minded fullback in Whittaker, but defensively he has been short in recent games. Wisdom appears, in the short time we have seen him so far, to be another full back who is better going forward. Arguably he was better in that sense than Whittaker in that Whits often struggles to serve up consistent delivery into the box.

It''s made somewhat frustrating when you look at left back where we have two quality players who can play that role in Brady and Olsson as well as a young player in Toffolo who is looking like he could make the step up to that sort of level as well.

Part of me wonders if there will be more changes elsewhere other than CB.[/quote]Whittaker was the correct side of his man, Martin should have been tighter to the guy on the other side so they sandwich him, to be fair, it was just a brilliant ball in between our defence. The biggest issue from sunday was that 5 goals came from the left hand side, Whitts and Martin have been getting all the stick but they were far better performers defensively than Bassong and Olsson.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

craig fleming was a small centre half if he is good enough why worry about his height ?

if he solves the problem he is fine by me but we wont change it we will stiil play RM at CB and still have the same problem against WBA if they have and sense their right back will be launching diagonal balls across the pitch in between whitts and RM for a pacey striker to run onto seen it time and time again the weakness is RB RCB and a keeper that is out of form with a terrible shot to goal ratio if we play those 3 against WBA we will get beaten again in my opinion

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]craig fleming was a small centre half if he is good enough why worry about his height ?

if he solves the problem he is fine by me but we wont change it we will stiil play RM at CB and still have the same problem against WBA if they have and sense their right back will be launching diagonal balls across the pitch in between whitts and RM for a pacey striker to run onto seen it time and time again the weakness is RB RCB and a keeper that is out of form with a terrible shot to goal ratio if we play those 3 against WBA we will get beaten again in my opinion[/quote]The weakness is only at RB and CB because that''s what you want to see. How on earth could you say that Whittaker was worse defensively than Olsson on Sunday? Because Olsson and Bassong were awful. The amount of times Martin was left marking 2 players because Bassong had gone walkies was unreal.

[hogesar 9,674]

[quote user="ellis206"][quote user="norfolkngood"]craig fleming was a small centre half if he is good enough why worry about his height ?

if he solves the problem he is fine by me but we wont change it we will stiil play RM at CB and still have the same problem against WBA if they have and sense their right back will be launching diagonal balls across the pitch in between whitts and RM for a pacey striker to run onto seen it time and time again the weakness is RB RCB and a keeper that is out of form with a terrible shot to goal ratio if we play those 3 against WBA we will get beaten again in my opinion[/quote]The weakness is only at RB and CB because that''s what you want to see. How on earth could you say that Whittaker was worse defensively than Olsson on Sunday? Because Olsson and Bassong were awful. The amount of times Martin was left marking 2 players because Bassong had gone walkies was unreal. [/quote]

This is what I thought when watching the game live, however everyone was targeting Martin and Whitts (who, also had poor games mind you) - so I simply presumed I was wrong.

[It's Character Forming 1,161]

For me the problem is both RM at centre back and Whitts at right back. I think it is time to try Ryan Bennett at CB. The whole "he''s not tall" thing is a pure red herring , I''ll believe the evidence of my own eyes that he''s a similar height to Basso.

The main problem with Whitts is his painful lack of pace which means he tends to drop off an attacker by a huge amount and gives the attacker the chance to just put in a cross if he wants. Also if Whitts doesn''t get his anticipation/timing just right, he can get left stranded all too easily. If the other side take advantage of him it is a major vulnerability for us, if they don''t (which happens quite often) then he''s a good RB. Russell Martin is probably technically not quite a good RB as Whitts but doesn''t have the same lack of pace, so it''s a tough call between them but I do feel more comfortable with RM there to be honest. It just feels painful to see Whitts backing away and leaving such a huge gap in front of the winger TBH.

Oh and the idea of Ryan Bennett at right back is a non-starter - he played there against West Ham under Hughton and looked like a fish out of water for the whole game (as well as giving away a penalty).

[GJP 79]

Martin struggled with pace last time we were in the Prem. He was regularly targetted by the opposition. I don''t think he''s got any quicker.

[hogesar 9,674]

[quote user="GJP"]Martin struggled with pace last time we were in the Prem. He was regularly targetted by the opposition. I don''t think he''s got any quicker.[/quote]

Yes, And I think it''s easier to exploit that with him at RB than at CB, personally. Saying that, I don''t think Whittaker is any quicker than Martin.

[norfolkngood 1,087]

the whole defence didn''t play at Newcastle I admit but the other games the weakness is RC RCB

whitts like a poster said drops off the LM Due to lack of pace so LM has a choice cross early or run at him that means RM has to shift across to cover RM then leaves his man meaning bassong now has two men to cover pulling the whole defence over any cross of deflected shot that goes to the left has left us exposed bassong has limits but if he is left to do his job he is better CB than martin

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

For the sake of a balanced debate and bringing in the left hand side, I think Bassong is getting worse game by game.

[Ray 111]

Whilst no-one covered themselves in glory last week, imo the defence were left out to dry to a certain extent.

If our midfield is not going to bust a gut to get back to help, then the defence is at best 2 x CB''s plus Tettey (the FB''s are way up the pitch on many occasions) so of course they will get pulled about, even if it is three v three our defenders are back pedalling whilst the attckers are full steam ahead.

Does Seb move out the the left to cover their winger, well I guess he has to, otherwise the winger can do what he likes, this leaves RM & Tettey covering not only strikers but on rushing midfielders and/or acres of space. What ever the two CB''s did the oppo would captilise on what they didn''t do, that''s why they are paid big bucks.

Essentially our defence were left between a rock and a hard place, damned if they did and damned if they didn''t.

IMO, the midfield were the root cause of our problems, in fact AN pretty much said as much without naming names in his post match interviews.

How do we counter this threat, by putting in more effort when and if we lose the ball, shut the oppo down as high up the pitch as poss, allowing FB''s to get back into a defensive position, and if we can''t do that then the midfield needs to sprint back without giving up, at best last week they strolled and often stood stock still waiting for the defence to sort it out.

I''ve said it before and say it again, defending and attacking are both team responsibilities.

None of that means I would be surprised to see personnel changes, however I suspect they will not be wholesale.

[ZLF 274]

For prem games its a fact that as a team we gain more points (and concede fewer goals) when martin starts at centre back than right back,  which mirrors us being better with whittaker at right back.   Over the same period we gain more points when Russ doesnt start.   But its not all about those two;  Olsson has to recall he is not a winger exposing seb to become the left back - and seb could have had a better game last weekend too,  although I did think he was the pick of a poor 4.

 

The back four is struggling but, for me,  Bennett is not the answer - he hasnt been for 4+ years so why would he be now?  At best he is of the same standard as Russ at CB with similar attributes.     Making a change in personnel would also come at an attacking cost and overall I dont think I would make a change.

 

For me the main answer is not about their capability but all about player discipline - if the right back bombs on the left back has to hold their ground and vice versa so we have basic cover - and means we wont see such large spaces between russ/seb as they try to cover the width of the pitch and their absent defenders.  

 

Likewise Russ has to learn to keep a better line;   too often he is yards deeper than the rest,  esp when facing a break,  allowing opponents on side.    That is a manifestation of the lack of pace we have at the back.

 

Hopefully the focus in training this week on when we dont have possession will help.   Especially for the equally culpable lazy midfielders who went AWOL each time we lost the ball and left the defending to the back 3 (seb, martin & tettey)

 

Do their jobs with diligence, vim & vigour and we will all be happier come sat evening.

[ellis206 0]

[quote user="norfolkngood"]the whole defence didn''t play at Newcastle I admit but the other games the weakness is RC RCB

whitts like a poster said drops off the LM Due to lack of pace so LM has a choice cross early or run at him that means RM has to shift across to cover RM then leaves his man meaning bassong now has two men to cover pulling the whole defence over any cross of deflected shot that goes to the left has left us exposed bassong has limits but if he is left to do his job he is better CB than martin[/quote]I''m struggling to think of any goals we''ve conceded this season from our right hand side because Whitts has been dropping off? In fact I can''t think of any goals conceded from a cross from the right hand side? Only one that springs to mind really from that side of the pitch is Vardy''s goal where we got caught on the counter attack and most of our team were in Leicester''s box. I think you have been watching different games to me as well, because it is Martin who is constantly left marking 2 or more players in the box, not Bassong, one of the goals on Sunday, Martin was marking 2 strikers and Bassong was still in the Newcastle half! People won''t look to criticise Bassong or Olsson though because it doesn''t suit their agenda, they''ve made their minds up that Whitts is rubbish and Martin isn''t a CB so whatever goals we concede will be down to those two from now on. As i''ve said a few times, Whittaker and Martin were streets ahead defensively over Olsson and Bassong against Newcastle.

[iron_stan 0]

hes no worse than any of our current defensive options, i watched him stop a goal with his face (about a foot from the ball) not long back, hes NEVER been given a decent run of gamesgive him ten games, let him get game time and build him upa defence of martin, bennett, bassong, olsson is much more balanced than playing a right back as a make shift centre back,ok he doesnt really have the pace but nor have whittaker or martin, and wisdom is just a mercenary, a loanee will never give what a willing contracted player will

[vos 155]

I believe the last time I saw Ryan Bennett in the Premier was our home game against Aston Villa. Benteke was at his peak but Ryan and Michael Turner did not give him a sniff. Bennett is our quickest central defender plus he is far better in the air than Martin/Bassong. I think he should play tomorrow with Martin switching to right back. There are times when you have to take a reasoned chance.

[GJP 79]

Did that actually happen?

[Donkey dangler 0]

Surely Ryan Bennett has to play at CB given last weeks fiasco.

[Red Rufus 56]

On the basis of your argument are you suggesting we recall Turner ? One game of note in a few years by Bennett is hardly a firm basis for playing him. He is rapidly acquiring legendary status through not playing in the team! Our defence looks shaky at times because of the offensive tactics adopted by AN as we try and impose our game on the opposition.