Our Clubs wealth

[Derby Canary 3]

Incredible that we continue to negotiate what seems like forever to sign these players as cheaply as possible before the deals eventually fall through, maybe everybody eventually lose the will to live let alone negotiate!Perhaps it''s because of our nervousness after RVW experience also things a little tight after:Giving away;Martin....bids (£7m) now being turned downButterfield....Derby bid of £5m rejected by HuddersfieldSurman....Looked a class act for Bournemouth on Monday night against Liverpool & must be worth millionsWho is it/was it at our Club that cannot spot talent if it stares them in the face?

[Canary Legend 0]

great post can''t argue with the logic.

The lack of a competent director of football doesn''t help

[ruthers1 0]

Our purse strings are very tight all round and we have been guilty of selling players after the first enquiry and as a consequence for less than they are worth. This is partly due to us wanting to free up their wages to make room for incoming players.

Our scouting network has been very, very poor over the last few years. In fairness the Board did recognise this and Ewan Chester was duly dismissed - incredibly only to be brought back in at Chris Hughton''s request - and we all know what a successful re-appointment that was!!!

I don''t profess to know anything about the new head of recruitment apart from the fact he was brought in far too late in this window. However, none of the names mentioned so far have particularly inspired me so I''m not holding my breath...

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

Surely all clubs let players who eventually come good slip through their fingers from time to time and we are no more culpable in that respect than any other.

Most notably, we benefited massively in the distant past from taking on various Spurs cast-offs and ITFC supporters still today moan about the way Roy Keane virtually gave away Jordan Rhodes.

Probably not ideal examples, but the league is littered with give-aways, usually from the bigger clubs, that have come good.

[BroadstairsR 2,232]

Re: The above.

Everton sold us a goalkeeper who was eventually to represent England, John Ruddy, on the cheap.

[Derby Canary 3]

Just seems that we have a perennial habit of releasing players at vastly below there market value to accommodate others and WORSE STILL then expecting other clubs to be equally foolish. Then when to our surprise they don''t we finish up losing out!Hardly squares with our much touted prudency ethic!

[Derby Canary 3]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Re: The above.

Everton sold us a goalkeeper who was eventually to represent England, John Ruddy, on the cheap.[/quote]Reasonable keeper but don''t think you will see much of him wearing the three lions....much too inconsistent and his seasons are always littered with instances where he concedes goals that he should have saved for example Sunderland''s goal on Sat that bounced twice before crossing the line!

[westcoastcanary 173]

Oh dear! Nothing like a couple of promising performances and rising feeling of confidence about the season ahead to provoke desperate casting around for a stick to beat the club with. Add a large dose of ignorance and economy with the truth and you have the perfect recipe.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Really can''t complain we moved these players on when we did. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but let''s be real.

Butterfield couldn''t get a game and I saw no complaints when he moved on. He still wouldn''t get a game ahead of Hoolahan.

Surman was a decent player but again struggled for game time. Can you honestly say you would put him ahead of Howson/ Dorrans in the team?

Martin I always rated but when he moved on we were a team trying to become stable in the premier league and were attempting to sign a different level of player. He had spent most of the previous two years on loan where he didn''t score and didn''t look ready for the step up.

A key point for me though is these players are only valued now because they moved on, got regular games and improved as players. Something that wouldn''t of happened here sitting on the bench. Martin and Butterfield still aren''t proven in the premier and their only chance of this happening is if they get promoted with their clubs. I don''t see either of them being coveted by anyone in the top league. Surman would be a good squad player but not as good as Howson, Dorrans, Tettey and Mulumbu.

[lake district canary 4,562]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]Really can''t complain we moved these players on when we did. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but let''s be real.

Butterfield couldn''t get a game and I saw no complaints when he moved on. He still wouldn''t get a game ahead of Hoolahan.

Surman was a decent player but again struggled for game time. Can you honestly say you would put him ahead of Howson/ Dorrans in the team?

Martin I always rated but when he moved on we were a team trying to become stable in the premier league and were attempting to sign a different level of player. He had spent most of the previous two years on loan where he didn''t score and didn''t look ready for the step up.

A key point for me though is these players are only valued now because they moved on, got regular games and improved as players. Something that wouldn''t of happened here sitting on the bench. Martin and Butterfield still aren''t proven in the premier and their only chance of this happening is if they get promoted with their clubs. I don''t see either of them being coveted by anyone in the top league. Surman would be a good squad player but not as good as Howson, Dorrans, Tettey and Mulumbu.[/quote]

 [Y] [Y] Spot on in every detail.

 

[westcoastcanary 173]

Yes, thank you Dead Canary. Your patience is clearly inexhaustible!

[TIL 1010 4,826]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Dead Canary"]Really can''t complain we moved these players on when we did. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but let''s be real.

Butterfield couldn''t get a game and I saw no complaints when he moved on. He still wouldn''t get a game ahead of Hoolahan.

Surman was a decent player but again struggled for game time. Can you honestly say you would put him ahead of Howson/ Dorrans in the team?

Martin I always rated but when he moved on we were a team trying to become stable in the premier league and were attempting to sign a different level of player. He had spent most of the previous two years on loan where he didn''t score and didn''t look ready for the step up.

A key point for me though is these players are only valued now because they moved on, got regular games and improved as players. Something that wouldn''t of happened here sitting on the bench. Martin and Butterfield still aren''t proven in the premier and their only chance of this happening is if they get promoted with their clubs. I don''t see either of them being coveted by anyone in the top league. Surman would be a good squad player but not as good as Howson, Dorrans, Tettey and Mulumbu.[/quote]

 [Y] [Y] Spot on in every detail.

 [/quote]I cannot argue with any of that.

[PurpleCanary 5,605]

I think the OP has got a real point. We let Alf Kirchen go to Arsenal for £6,000! Absolutely bl**dy peanuts. And he ended up playing for England. And, mark my words, it will be the same with this lad Maurice Norman at centre-half. We''ll bow and scrape and accept some pittance from a London club for him too.

[Grant Holts Moustache 105]

Thanks guys, Westcoast I just have a lot of time on my hands at the moment and like a good debate in the morning...

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ruthers1"]Our scouting network has been very, very poor over the last few years.[/quote]And yet we have the strongest squad we''ve ever had in our club''s history ruth.Not for the first time you make no sense.....

[TIL 1010 4,826]

[quote user="ruthers1"] we have been guilty of selling players after the first enquiry [/quote]It is well known that we do our buying without broadcasting it to the world before the ink is dry on the contract and i see no reason why our selling policy should not be the same so for you to say we sell players after the first enquiry is a silly statement to make unless of course you have knowledge that this in fact happens ruthers.

[The Walking Man 13]

"Incredible that we continue to negotiate what seems like forever to sign these players as cheaply as possible"

Well... yes. I would be expecting us to sign players cheaply as possible. I would expect every club to try and sign players for as cheap as possible. Let''s look at a non-Norwich example. John Stones and Chelsea, how long has this been going on for? Clearly not a short negotiation. Why didn''t Chelsea just bid £40m and be done with it? BECAUSE BUSINESS ISN''T DONE LIKE THAT!!! And if it was a lot of people would go bust very quickly.

But sorry it''s just Norwich who should just chuck silly money at everyone and get things done in half an hour in order to satisfy the moronic minority like the OP.

[Buh 0]

It makes me laugh the gross assumptions people leap to.

I don''t even think full access to all the Norwich financial reports and full access to all meetings about players and scouting reports and there would still be huge leaps of fancy, imaginative conspiracy theories and of course David mcnally painted to be Scrooge McDuck.

Other players going away and then becoming valuable is supposed to be our fault, why? If a player doesn''t fit into our side, as all those players didn''t, then we can''t freeze them in carbonite and store them under the city stand just in case they become valuable. Especially if you are in the prem and only allowed 25 seniors. I mean, think about it.

[Canaries north 151]

I agree with you on players leaving. Chelsea sold a certain midfielder and brought him back for a fortune. Also a certain Juventus midfielder who Man U will be gutted to have let go. I will still ask the question is this the best squad we have ever had. I should probably start another thread on this but I don''t see the strength in depth that over people do.

[chicken 0]

I don''t think it is the wrong time at all, after all, this thread was presumably started to establish what peoples perceived amount of money was in relation to their expectations on what would be spent on the squad.

I think it is pretty hard to argue that we don''t have a stronger squad now than when we were last in the premier league - in general.

And when you look at it comparatively, stronger than those that came up with us.

For me, the most important thing is that our striking department is much improved - and that is prior to us adding to it.

Some might argue that Fer and Snodgrass are big players to miss, but in all honesty I think Redmond has come on enough to be a genuine first team player and offers more IMHO than Snodgrass out wide. And it''s hard to say with Fer, but we certainly have more depth in midfield now, and not just numbers - premier league experience with quality as well.

Last time out our CM was: Howson, Tettey, Fer, Johnson, Fox.

This time out it''s: Howson, Tettey, Mulumbu, Dorrans, O''Neil, VOO, and Johnson with young Thompson waiting in the wings. For me, that''s far stronger, more competitive.

The arguable areas of not improvement are CB, wing and GK.

We''ve gone from having Snodgrass, E. Bennett, Pilkington, Surman and Redmond to having Redmond, E. Bennett and Brady. But our approach and standard formation has changed and our requirement for genuine wide players has changed somewhat along with the likes of Dorrans and O''Neil having played wide before now.

CB we currently have the same group apart from Yobo out and Martin in.

GK we have lost Nash and Bunn and have Kean and Rudd.

[Indy_Bones 442]

[quote user="Dead Canary"]Butterfield couldn''t get a game and I saw no complaints when he moved on. He still wouldn''t get a game ahead of Hoolahan.[/quote]Butterfield was NEVER given a chance here, and whilst I''d agree that he''d struggle to oust an on-form and fully fit Hoolahan, he would have also given us another option in the event of injury/suspension which can''t be understated.[quote]Surman was a decent player but again struggled for game time. Can you honestly say you would put him ahead of Howson/ Dorrans in the team?[/quote]Truthfully I don''t think there''s actually that much between them to be honest, Surman would have worked very well playing the same role Johnson did last season, and would certainly have improved the overall passing quality in the middle/left, but I''d also agree that he was struggling to get game time for whatever reason and thus the club chose to let him move on (even if for less than he was really worth).[quote]Martin I always rated but when he moved on we were a team trying to become stable in the premier league and were attempting to sign a different level of player. He had spent most of the previous two years on loan where he didn''t score and didn''t look ready for the step up.[/quote]Sorry, but this the key point I really disagree with. Martin got just 4 games to prove himself at prem level and then the decision was made to loan Martin out to Palace for the season, where he performed strongly for them in a less favoured role and was regarded as one of their best players that season, whereas we instead kept Jackson who couldn''t hit a cow''s backside with a banjo! Let''s also not forget that the season before that, Martin and Jackson were completely level on goals scored until Jackson hit that short lived purple patch, but throughout the season, Martin arguably offered much more overall than Jackson did, even if Jackson''s goals were almost crucial in the end run-in. Martin had a longer career ahead of him, was clearly a much better finisher when given decent chances and let''s not forget that it would have been a local lad rather than a Canadian import (not that I''m against imports however).I said at the time that we''d made an error selling Martin, and so far I think that''s been proved right to a certain degree (certainly would have been better than Jackson or Kei Kamara IMHO).[quote]A key point for me though is these players are only valued now because they moved on, got regular games and improved as players. Something that wouldn''t of happened here sitting on the bench.[/quote]Well of course players aren''t going to get better rotting on the bench!But look at the facts, we''ve had a real striker problem on our hands for the past few years, with a string of players like Kamara, Becchio, Jackson, Elmander, Wheelie, RvW and Lafferty all struggling to make ANY impact on our fortunes, so can you honestly tell me that you think that Martin wouldn''t have been a better shout than pretty much all of them???Similarly, we wanted a midfielder who would attack with the ball and offer some genuine creativity, which is exactly what Butterfield could have offered at times, and Surman was a perfectly good option to use in certain matches.Do I think the decisions to sell them were awful - absolutely not, but I don''t like seeing good players being played down rather than accepting that in some cases they would have been better - or at least no worse than who we chose to play/keep instead, and this is certainly the case for Chris Martin tbh.

[Buh 0]

Crying about the past and how we had players that would be or would have been useful in hindsight

Useful.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

[quote user="BroadstairsR"]Re: The above.

Everton sold us a goalkeeper who was eventually to represent England, John Ruddy, on the cheap.[/quote]

United letting pogba go will go down as one of the biggest mistakes from an English club

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="Buh"]Crying about the past and how we had players that would be or would have been useful in hindsight

Useful.[/quote]

Aye.  Retrospective sticks are still sticks.

Never mind that we picked up Howson, Redmond, Johnson, Grabban, even Jerome for a fraction of what they are worth now.

[chicken 0]

This is becoming a bit bizarre.

The question wasn''t whether we sold players and regretted it due to their success or our failure, but whether we sold players too easily.

In that regard, you can''t include Martin as we didn''t sell him, we allowed him to leave for free. He''ll always split opinions but I look at it like this - for me he would have been a massive help in the year we had only RVW, Elmander and Hooper because he would have been no worse than any of them IMHO. The flip side to that is that he would not have become the player he has become today because he wouldn''t have been given regular football, he wouldn''t have had that clean break to establish himself as the player he wanted to be at a club where there was no weight of expectation - especially when coming in as a freebie.

So for me, any regret is purely based upon his success since he left.

Other than that, the only other player is Surman, and he was not allowed to leave easily. Adams offered him a new contract, he didn''t want to stay or sign it, and with only a year left on his contract the club negotiated the best deal they could get, hence he was here most of last summer.

That said, I don''t think he would be as influential as Dorrans or Howson. He was a very neat and tidy player, silky at times even, and on the same wavelength as Hoolahan, but his all round game isn''t as good. I said for a while that he should be played more centrally and that is what he has done at Bournemouth. Would he keep any of our current first team out of a starting line up? No.