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His goal record over the last two seasons set against how much we paid for him facts enough?

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I''d love rvw to come good but the truth is he won''t. The way we play requires the lone forward to do a lot of hard work himself and to be strong enough to hold the ball up and keep possession or win possession by Harrying defenders.

Rvw is a good player. Great touch n finesse and wld score in teams like man city where they can have the luxury of his type of player but in our team he would and does get lost. He can''t hold the ball up so we are constantly defending that''s just as much a part of y we were relegated as his lack of goals.

I''d like to see him tried in a number 10 role behind Jerome as I think he wld b more suited in a wes position but I''d choose Hooper over him every time as a back up striker

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Why is he pants?

2 goals in 28 Norwich City appearances.

9 goals in 35 St. Etienne appearances. Not a great record here either. Can''t even blame this one on Chris Hughton or our midfielders either.

So in 63 appearances, he''s scored 11 goals, or one in every 6.

I''m no football expert but these aren''t great stats for a striker. He''s not as assister either, so what exactly does he offer?

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[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]Why is he pants?

2 goals in 28 Norwich City appearances.

9 goals in 35 St. Etienne appearances. Not a great record here either. Can''t even blame this one on Chris Hughton or our midfielders either.

So in 63 appearances, he''s scored 11 goals, or one in every 6.

I''m no football expert but these aren''t great stats for a striker. He''s not as assister either, so what exactly does he offer?[/quote]
That''s the same ratio that Iwan Roberts got in his first season at Norwich... Wonder whether we should have written him off as "useless" and all the other nonsense that''s spouted about RvW.

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[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]Why is he pants?

2 goals in 28 Norwich City appearances.

9 goals in 35 St. Etienne appearances. Not a great record here either. Can''t even blame this one on Chris Hughton or our midfielders either.

So in 63 appearances, he''s scored 11 goals, or one in every 6.

I''m no football expert but these aren''t great stats for a striker. He''s not as assister either, so what exactly does he offer?[/quote]Four of those goals came in cup games against lower-league opposition. His two-season record in top-flight league games is six goals in 49 appearances, or one in eight and a bit.

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On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too!

Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him!

Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season.

Maybe just supporting the player would help.

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[quote user="kick it off"][quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]Why is he pants?

2 goals in 28 Norwich City appearances.

9 goals in 35 St. Etienne appearances. Not a great record here either. Can''t even blame this one on Chris Hughton or our midfielders either.

So in 63 appearances, he''s scored 11 goals, or one in every 6.

I''m no football expert but these aren''t great stats for a striker. He''s not as assister either, so what exactly does he offer?[/quote]
That''s the same ratio that Iwan Roberts got in his first season at Norwich... Wonder whether we should have written him off as "useless" and all the other nonsense that''s spouted about RvW.
[/quote]Its not nonsense though. What he cost and his goal record over the last two seasons are actual tangible, quantifiable FACTS.Saying Hughton ruined him, saying he was maybe the wrong player, saying he makes good runs and we never played to his strengths are all OPINION.Saying he has shown promise and Alex Neil can make him into the player we thought he was is HOPING.A few people in this thread seem to be getting the words I bolded a bit mixed up.For the record, theres no hating here, I will be as happy as anyone if he scores goals this season.

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We were linked with Glenn Murray last week and he has a better record than RvW, and brings people into the game also. Yet some fans were turning their noses up at it.

If we were looking at the goalscoring records of any other striker we wouldn''t be touching him with a bargepole.

Some fans are bending over backwards to make excuses for him and defend him. I''m sure he''s a nice bloke with a good attitude, but his goalscoring record in the last 24 months has been awful.

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Jerome may not be prolific this season, but he offers so much more. Can bring players into the game, he''s an outlet for the long ball and can hold it up. RvW offers none of these attributes. If he''s not scoring goals for us, there''s no point of him being on the pitch.

For the record, I''m not hating on RvW either, I''m just offering my opinion on a player, and it''s not a great one.

If he scores a few this season send the humble pie my way.

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[quote user="Indy"]On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too!

Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him!

Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season.

Maybe just supporting the player would help.[/quote]You mean those fans whose assessment of van Wolfswinkel was validated by the manager trying to get rid of him before a ball was kicked this season?

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PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 28/08/2015 7:27 PM:

Indy wrote:

On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too! Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him! Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season. Maybe just supporting the player would help.

You mean those fans whose assessment of van Wolfswinkel was validated by the manager trying to get rid of him before a ball was kicked this season?

No Purple. I think he means those fans that refused to listen to Alex Neil who very recently stated this:

“His attitude in the last month or so since he came back has been excellent and he merited his goal,” said Neil. “People make a big deal of it but Ricky has scored a lot of goals in countries like Portugal and Holland.

“He moved here for £8.5m and he is a good player, and I thought we saw some of that. The guy deserves a break and if he keeps showing a good attitude and going about his business the right way he is certainly part of my squad.”

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too!

Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him!

Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season.

Maybe just supporting the player would help.[/quote]You mean those fans whose assessment of van Wolfswinkel was validated by the manager trying to get rid of him before a ball was kicked this season?[/quote]

Yes the same manager who played him ahead of Grabban and now praises RVW attitude. Funny how Hooper & Laffs now being lined up for the door yet RVW all very quiet now, why would that be?

Could be that he''s impressed the manager and has a role to play?

I don''t know just like you don''t Purple, but he''s still here and playing, so I''m good with at, won''t write a prolific goal scorer off evacuate he''s had two unsettled season like some on here.

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[quote user="lharman7"]PurpleCanary wrote the following post at 28/08/2015 7:27 PM:

Indy wrote:

On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too! Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him! Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season. Maybe just supporting the player would help.

You mean those fans whose assessment of van Wolfswinkel was validated by the manager trying to get rid of him before a ball was kicked this season?

No Purple. I think he means those fans that refused to listen to Alex Neil who very recently stated this:

“His attitude in the last month or so since he came back has been excellent and he merited his goal,” said Neil. “People make a big deal of it but Ricky has scored a lot of goals in countries like Portugal and Holland.

“He moved here for £8.5m and he is a good player, and I thought we saw some of that. The guy deserves a break and if he keeps showing a good attitude and going about his business the right way he is certainly part of my squad.”[/quote]And I would expect him to say nothing else. It is his job to motivate the player.But thats really Alex Neil hoping it works out, the same as the rest of us.

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I''m glad you know that Morty, you think AN is just hoping!

I would say he''s made a far better assessment than me or you and if he stays there will be a place and part for him to play.

I don''t think he''d be here if Neil didn''t want him, he''d be loaned out again.

So we shall see, but he''s here and I''m pleased as he''s a quality player as proven, now it''s up to RVW to show what he''s about when the chance comes.

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[quote user="Indy"]I''m glad you know that Morty, you think AN is just hoping!

I would say he''s made a far better assessment than me or you and if he stays there will be a place and part for him to play.

I don''t think he''d be here if Neil didn''t want him, he''d be loaned out again.

So we shall see, but he''s here and I''m pleased as he''s a quality player as proven, now it''s up to RVW to show what he''s about when the chance comes.[/quote]Did you read my post above about Hope, opinion and fact?But we did try to loan him out, didn''t we?

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[quote user="norfolkbroadslim"]hogesar, it''s pretty big-headed of you to state that LDC''s opinion is wrong. You are also wrong with what you say.

At this stage nobody knows whether RVW will come good or not. So at this stage it is purely opinion and nothing more, as it cannot yet be proven either way.[/quote]
This is relatively simplistic but I was actually saying he can''t accept that in other people''s opinions, his opinion is wrong / incorrect / codswallop. Whatever.
No big-headedness here at all.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]I''m glad you know that Morty, you think AN is just hoping!

I would say he''s made a far better assessment than me or you and if he stays there will be a place and part for him to play.

I don''t think he''d be here if Neil didn''t want him, he''d be loaned out again.

So we shall see, but he''s here and I''m pleased as he''s a quality player as proven, now it''s up to RVW to show what he''s about when the chance comes.[/quote]Did you read my post above about Hope, opinion and fact?But we did try to loan him out, didn''t we?[/quote]

We did indeed before AN had any time to asses RVW, he was already out on loan last season.

Sorry but the way you posted it appeared that you stated fact the AN was hoping!

Anyhow like I said RVW gets more shite from fans then the likes of Elmsnder who cost over a million to loan and 40k a week, he was absolutely useless.

As AN has shown he''s a fantastic manager and the management team haven''t got much wrong, had RVW been on the pitch last week in the second half,, we might have won.

Just my opinion.

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[quote user="Indy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]On the bases you lot go by we need to write off Jerome, before joining us he only scored 9 in 78 games, that''s 1 in every 8 games too!

Maybe rather than being so knowledgeable we should let AN decide on RVW future and how he and his coaching staff get the best out of RVW and the system for him!

Love the fact that those writing him off are the same who were so certain he''d be gone before we kicked a ball this season.

Maybe just supporting the player would help.[/quote]You mean those fans whose assessment of van Wolfswinkel was validated by the manager trying to get rid of him before a ball was kicked this season?[/quote]

Yes the same manager who played him ahead of Grabban and now praises RVW attitude. Funny how Hooper & Laffs now being lined up for the door yet RVW all very quiet now, why would that be?

Could be that he''s impressed the manager and has a role to play?

I don''t know just like you don''t Purple, but he''s still here and playing, so I''m good with at, won''t write a prolific goal scorer off evacuate he''s had two unsettled season like some on here.[/quote]All the facts (as opposed to PR guff that should be seen for what it clearly is) until now point one way. The attempt to sell van Wolfswinkel, giving him the No.29 shirt, while leaving No.9 vacant, and now - most significant of all - leaving him out of all three Premier League match-day squads.They all point to Alex Neil having decided (and not having changed his mind about this) that van Wolfswinkel is by some way not good enough for the Premier League and doesn''t want him taking up a costly place in the 25-man squad.But events - as they have a habit of doing - have not gone according to plan. Van Wolfswinkel scuppered the sale to Sporting, the move for Larrivey broke down, bids for other strikers have so far produced no-one, and now there is a question-mark over Grabban''s Norwich City future.If events continue to frustrate our striker search van Wolfswinkel could end up in the 25-man squad, but - based on the facts - one can say with 99.9 per cent certainty that is not what Neil wanted and is still not what he wants.

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[quote user="Indy"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Indy"]I''m glad you know that Morty, you think AN is just hoping!

I would say he''s made a far better assessment than me or you and if he stays there will be a place and part for him to play.

I don''t think he''d be here if Neil didn''t want him, he''d be loaned out again.

So we shall see, but he''s here and I''m pleased as he''s a quality player as proven, now it''s up to RVW to show what he''s about when the chance comes.[/quote]Did you read my post above about Hope, opinion and fact?But we did try to loan him out, didn''t we?[/quote]

We did indeed before AN had any time to asses RVW, he was already out on loan last season.

Sorry but the way you posted it appeared that you stated fact the AN was hoping!

Anyhow like I said RVW gets more shite from fans then the likes of Elmsnder who cost over a million to loan and 40k a week, he was absolutely useless.

As AN has shown he''s a fantastic manager and the management team haven''t got much wrong, had RVW been on the pitch last week in the second half,, we might have won.

Just my opinion.[/quote]But we did try and loan him out, thats a fact. You see where I am going with this?Alex may as well have said "The lad is $hite, but we''re stuck with him now, so we may as well try and make the most of it"

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A few points here...

For all those saying RVW ''failed'' at St. Etienne, how do you define failure? He scored 9 goals in 35 games there in all competitions, and many of those appearances were from the bench. He scored some good goals playing up front on his own as well. Ligue 1 may not be the same level as the Prem but if it''s good enough for Zlatan it aint to be sniffed at. The only season in the last few years he hasn''t scored goals was under hapless Hughton, and we all know what our playing style was like that season; we barely made it out of our own half most games and if we did it was invariably brought forward by Snodgrass, who just couldn''t bring himself to cross the ball early enough to make the sort of chance a poacher would thrive off.

Confidence has played a huge part, as it does with any striker. The longer a striker goes without a goal the harder it gets as the natural instincts go out of the window, they end up taking extra touches they wouldn''t normally take to try and make clearer chances etc. Especially when they have the expectations that come with a big price tag. I''m defending him here, but that is just basic human psychology. I am certain that given a run in the team and with the right service Ricky would score goals and get his confidence up.

For me, the main thing that''s lacking in his game is not finishing ability or the instincts required to play as a lone CF. It''s his physicality that is just not there - he''s the same height as Grant Holt but his build is a lot slimmer. It baffles me why he hasn''t just hit the gym and tried to work on this (maybe he has but it doesn''t show). At his age and with the right guidance surely it would not be beyond the realms of possibility to pack on some extra muscle. He looks about 11 stone. Holt was apparently around 12.5 when he was in the prem (although I found this hard to believe as he looked more like 14.5 to me). Surely some heavy weights and a few protein shakes could make a difference and push Ricky more towards being a genuine contender in the Prem? Or do we think that significant muscular gains would be at the detriment of other aspects of his game? For me it would only be a positive as physical presence is a key requirement for a lone striker in this league and without that I don''t think we are ever going to get the returns from him in this league that he is capable of in leagues with less physicality / arguably more reliance on skill.

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[quote user="Mr Wolf"]A few points here...

For all those saying RVW ''failed'' at St. Etienne, how do you define failure? He scored 9 goals in 35 games there in all competitions, and many of those appearances were from the bench. He scored some good goals playing up front on his own as well. Ligue 1 may not be the same level as the Prem but if it''s good enough for Zlatan it aint to be sniffed at.
The only season in the last few years he hasn''t scored goals was under hapless Hughton, and we all know what our playing style was like that season; we barely made it out of our own half most games and if we did it was invariably brought forward by Snodgrass, who just couldn''t bring himself to cross the ball early enough to make the sort of chance a poacher would thrive off.

Confidence has played a huge part, as it does with any striker. The longer a striker goes without a goal the harder it gets as the natural instincts go out of the window, they end up taking extra touches they wouldn''t normally take to try and make clearer chances etc. Especially when they have the expectations that come with a big price tag. I''m defending him here, but that is just basic human psychology. I am certain that given a run in the team and with the right service Ricky would score goals and get his confidence up.

For me, the main thing that''s lacking in his game is not finishing ability or the instincts required to play as a lone CF. It''s his physicality that is just not there - he''s the same height as Grant Holt but his build is a lot slimmer. It baffles me why he hasn''t just hit the gym and tried to work on this (maybe he has but it doesn''t show). At his age and with the right guidance surely it would not be beyond the realms of possibility to pack on some extra muscle. He looks about 11 stone. Holt was apparently around 12.5 when he was in the prem (although I found this hard to believe as he looked more like 14.5 to me). Surely some heavy weights and a few protein shakes could make a difference and push Ricky more towards being a genuine contender in the Prem? Or do we think that significant muscular gains would be at the detriment of other aspects of his game? For me it would only be a positive as physical presence is a key requirement for a lone striker in this league and without that I don''t think we are ever going to get the returns from him in this league that he is capable of in leagues with less physicality / arguably more reliance on skill.[/quote]My opinion (for what it is worth) is much more based on his time at St-Etienne (which I followed quite closely) than at Norwich, when there was one (Hughton''s tactics) mitigating factor.Van Wolfswinkel''s record in France was five goals in Ligue 1, with three more against lower-league opposition in the French Cup, and one against a poor team in the Europa League. Against the two good teams - Dnipro and Internazionale - he failed to score, and he failed to score against Ligue 1 opposition (Lorient and PSG) in the French League Cup.In addition, having scored one goal in September, the last four of his Ligue 1 goals came in a spell in the early winter, so any lack of confidence should have disappeared, and he should have carried on scoring. Instead he didn''t. His last Ligue 1 goal was in December and he went through the rest of the league season scoreless. Hence ending up and ended up as a frequently unused sub.At the end of the season there was a "What do we think of Ricky?" thread on the main St-Etienne fans'' forum. Six pages and more than 100 posts. It was a very civilised and knowledgeable discussion and there was a consensus (pretty much unanimous) that he wasn''t good enough for Ligue 1, or at least certainly not for a top half of the table side. I cannot remember one poster advocating trying to hold on to him. In essence the St-Etienne fans regarded him as a failure, and the club seemed to as well, given the apparent lack of any attempt to get him to stay.There was an interesting semi-split in the consensus. Some fans thought he was technically good enough but just lacked the necessary physicality (and if that is true then he is certainly not suited to the Premier League). Others thought he was technically a poor player as well as not being physically up to the job.

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My instinct is to rally round Ricky and give my full support. Why not?

He has had a rough couple of seasons but before that he showed some class.

None of us know how he going to progress this year, as City fans surely the best we can do is give him our support.

If he fails at least we have given him the best possible chance!

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[quote user="Yellowfuture"]My instinct is to rally round Ricky and give my full support. Why not?

He has had a rough couple of seasons but before that he showed some class.

None of us know how he going to progress this year, as City fans surely the best we can do is give him our support.

If he fails at least we have given him the best possible chance![/quote]I haven''t read the whole thread, but I don''t think anyone has, out and out, said that they wouldn''t support him, or wish that he does well.There is just a sliding scale on the likelihood of this happening.

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You can try a defend your stance but it won''t help a city player! Jesus most of you anti RVW are the rose tinted glasses people yet you have a downer on RVW.

He''s a proven goal threat that''s fact,

He'' was subject to a loan move to Sporting, but that was before the players came back to full training and now it appears AN might just have use for him.

Could it be that were not STUCK with him more that AN judgement is just a little better than ours?

Give the lad a chance, looks like the manager is!

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[quote user="Indy"]You can try a defend your stance but it won''t help a city player! Jesus most of you anti RVW are the rose tinted glasses people yet you have a downer on RVW.

He''s a proven goal threat that''s fact,

He'' was subject to a loan move to Sporting, but that was before the players came back to full training and now it appears AN might just have use for him.

Could it be that were not STUCK with him more that AN judgement is just a little better than ours?

Give the lad a chance, looks like the manager is![/quote]What are you basing this on, last season, or the season before?

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Fair enough Purple Canary, you are more informed of his performances over there than I am. Their consensus seems similar to ours as a group of fans then, with people appearing divided but the general consensus being he''s not quite up to the task. As I say, for me, I think his real issue in terms of compatibility with the British game is his lack of physicality and if he had significantly more strength he would be much more worthy of a stint in our team up front (if there was ever a need i.e. through injury etc). He just doesn''t offer enough all round for me but I don''t think it''s a lack of quality, it''s more the lack of confidence and strength. I haven''t watched a lot of French football I must confess - how does it compare on the physical side? As if you''d think it is nowhere near as physical then my whole argument is potentially flawed!

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Morty would you base Jerome as a proven goal scorer from last season?

I base this on his time when he played Champions League and scored goals, in Portugal and Holland, France he did OK.

So yep I stand by the fact that we paid 8.5 million for a proven goal scorer, slate him all you like he''s up there as one our best striker through their careers.

You might not like him or want him here but the fact he''s here and getting picked by the manager then great.

Rather 10 RVW''s then 1 Grabban.

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Lets look at the likely position here :

RVW remains a weight around the necks of the club in this transfer window. RVW is on high wages - as high as any in the club - and the Saint Etienne adventure lead them to conclude that he isn''t good enough .

Last year St Etienne paid his wages , this year they weren''t prepared to , and the word around Europe appears to be that he is not worth the wages.

RVW isn''t prepared to earn less, so the club may have to only get a proportion covered this time.

AN doesn''t rate him. Grabban and Hooper are obviously above him in the pecking order. That RVW has played in the pre seasons is nothing to do with AN thinking he is good, more about keeping him match fit for a loan or a cut price sale. That he was given number 29 and number 9 still is vacant says it all.

The club will still be working on getting people out to get people in . There will be a net position that the board have agreed on.

Finally a word for Ewan Chester - roundly blamed for signing RVW in the first place who fell on his sword , but was rescued by Hughtons move to Brighton. NCFC have been bitten by the you tube bug and wont let it happen again.

We do love an underdog in these parts and it was great to see him score. But if he is still here on Wednesday morning it will be bad news , as it will mean that unlike last year his wages weren''t freed to sign other players.

RVW has to go I''m afraid.

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Purple

"If events continue to frustrate our striker search van Wolfswinkel could end up in the 25-man squad, but - based on the facts - one can say with 99.9 per cent certainty that is not what Neil wanted and is still not what he wants. "

Your insight into what AN wants and doesn''t want, with such a high level of certainly is surely unrivalled.

Do you think his goal and second half performance against Rotherham may have just edged that level of certainty down to say 99..1% or are you going to stick with the 99.9%.

The level of arrogance of some posters on here is beyond belief.

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