RVW

[lharman7 39]

Thanks for the response hogesar although it wasn''t in the form i asked but cheers anyhow.

I can only remember a few chances which he squandered but i firmly believe his confidence was shot very early on in the season which contributed to his overall poor season.

I tend to disagree with you on a number of points regarding his overall play e.g, pace, skill, first touch.

I don''t put RvW on a pedestal and I''m one of the few that hope (maybe blind) that he at least gets his career back on track and especially if its with us!

I just don''t understand the borderline hateful comments regarding a NCFC player.

Still awaiting Bor''s answers!

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="lake district canary"]  Wes lacks strength and build, but makes up for it with determination.  The times I have seen RVW live, he has been determined and robust, not like a 12 year old at all.

[/quote]No Lakey Wes makes up for his build and strength with skill and as for RVW looking determined and robust that must have been a game i missed.[/quote]

I think you may have missed this one when you were out of action for a while, but it was one of his best performances in the few games I went to at CR that season - against Tottenham - and most of the crowd thought he did well that game too. Match report said - "Van Wolfswinkel made way for Hooper in the 72nd minute to a standing

ovation from the home fans for a selfless shift up against both Dawson

and Vertonghen."  It was a strong performance and his determination in disposessing a Tottenham player led directly to our goal. Ok, just one match, but it shows there is plenty of strength there in body and in character.

[/quote]

As a RVW fan Lakey you''ve summed up the opposite point of view perfectly there.Aside

the Spurs game I can only remember him looking effective on one other

occasion and that was when we steamrollered Sunderland at Carrow Rd.

Everyone played out of their skin in the 1st half that day so even RVW

couldn''t fail to make a half decent impression.Got to agree with

BBB and others on here that despite everyone''s desperate hopes and

frantic straw clutching that he would make the grade it just aint gonna

happen.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

RvW seems like a nice guy; it''s disappointing that it hasn''t worked out for him and (us). But let''s not treat him like some sort of charity case - he''s received more money than most of us will ever have, to let''s be honest, be a failure. And if reports are to be believed he turned down Sporting because of the money.

We have players in our squad that have contributed a lot to the club, such as Hoolahan and Martin, who are constantly criticised by some. Yet RvW, with his two goals, is held up as some sort of amazing hero. Trust me, we have a lot more players worthy of appreciation than Ricky. Some of the over-the-top praise and love for him on here and Twitter has been a bit embarrassing to be honest. And to add to it, some are bending over backwards to make excuses for his shortcomings. Good strikers make something happen themselves.

Going back to the football side of things:-

Is he a good finisher? Maybe, but we''ve all seen him miss sitters.

Has he any real pace? Not really.

Has he got any strength or presence? Definitely not.

He may be a half decent finisher but without any other major attributes this is worthless. I could be the best finisher on the planet, but without anything else I''m useless.

For me the jury''s still out. We have better options in the squad, we are obviously looking to add here anyway, and it''s very debatable whether he''s actually good enough for this league anyway.

[Indy_Bones 441]

[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"]He may be a half decent finisher but without any other major attributes this is worthless. I could be the best finisher on the planet, but without anything else I''m useless.[/quote]No, no, no, no and NO!In our current system (and most systems favoured in the modern game), a natural finisher with limited attributes in other areas is far less valued than a strong, ball-holding target man, because that''s the type of the player the system suits, bit that does NOT make him worthless.Stick a player like RvW into a setup whereby the midfield''s job is to attack aggressively and at pace before either whipping balls across the area for him to finish, or to play clever balls through where he then just needs to finish, and he''ll easily bag 15-20 a season, and it''s NOT RvW''s fault that we don''t play this way, or that this is not the style of play favoured in the modern game.To say a player like this is worthless is utterly unbelievable, and it saddens me that some of the highest regarded strikers of all time were this type of player, and yet now even the likes of Gerd Muller and Lineker would be written off as useless despite being incredibly prolific when used in the correct manner...

[Legend Iwan 30]

While on point about former players and the current system trend, Indy, if a player cannot adapt/learn new elements then they are, on the most part, worthless to us. The tactics Neil''s using demands a player to ''put themselves about'', hold up play, link with midfield as well as score - RVW offers us few of those, sadly.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

We''re not playing in the 1980s though.

Ricky van Wolfswinkel does not fit our normal system. He does not really fit the Premier League. This makes him pretty worthless for what we are trying to achieve.

And if we''re going along that route, Gary Hooper is by far the better striker anyway. At least he has some general link-up play and strength about him.

[hogesar 9,658]

[quote user="Wes Hooly Fan"] We have players in our squad that have contributed a lot to the club, such as Hoolahan and Martin, who are constantly criticised by some. Yet RvW, with his two goals, is held up as some sort of amazing hero. Trust me, we have a lot more players worthy of appreciation than Ricky. Some of the over-the-top praise and love for him on here and Twitter has been a bit embarrassing to be honest. And to add to it, some are bending over backwards to make excuses for his shortcomings.[/quote]

I think me and you are on the exact same wavelength on this one, again.

This is what really gets me. Some of the same posters on here praising RvW to the Hills for a goal against Rotherham will, on a weekly basis, consistently criticise Martin for a poor tackle, not winning an aerial battle, or Hoolahan for losing the ball. And yes, the love-in is slightly embarrassing.

[lharman7 39]

hogesar wrote the following post at 27/08/2015 7:38 PM:

Wes Hooly Fan wrote:

We have players in our squad that have contributed a lot to the club, such as Hoolahan and Martin, who are constantly criticised by some. Yet RvW, with his two goals, is held up as some sort of amazing hero. Trust me, we have a lot more players worthy of appreciation than Ricky. Some of the over-the-top praise and love for him on here and Twitter has been a bit embarrassing to be honest. And to add to it, some are bending over backwards to make excuses for his shortcomings.

I think me and you are on the exact same wavelength on this one, again.

This is what really gets me. Some of the same posters on here praising RvW to the Hills for a goal against Rotherham will, on a weekly basis, consistently criticise Martin for a poor tackle, not winning an aerial battle, or Hoolahan for losing the ball. And yes, the love-in is slightly embarrassing.

And the hatred towards another is quite shocking hogesar.

[lharman7 39]

Legend Iwan wrote the following post at 27/08/2015 6:58 PM:

While on point about former players and the current system trend, Indy, if a player cannot adapt/learn new elements then they are, on the most part, worthless to us. The tactics Neil''s using demands a player to ''put themselves about'', hold up play, link with midfield as well as score - RVW offers us few of those, sadly.

RvW did indeed offer us few of those sadly, albeit in a striker stifling Chris Hughton set up!

That was clearly there for all of us to see yet anyone who dares argue that maybe RvW would suite a more free flowing, shackles off attack minded Alex Neil outfit gets accused of putting him on some sort of pedestal.

Its far from being about a love for RvW. Its more about him having a complete clean slate this season and some supporters are just hoping that he gets a little credibility back and becomes a contributor.

[Making Plans 936]

And the AN view -

“His attitude in the last month or so since he came back has been

excellent and he merited his goal,” said Neil. “People make a big deal

of it but Ricky has scored a lot of goals in countries like Portugal and

Holland.“

He moved here for £8.5m and he is a good player, and I

thought we saw some of that. The guy deserves a break and if he keeps

showing a good attitude and going about his business the right way he is

certainly part of my squad.”

[Mason 47 1,379]

I''ve always maintained he''ll look a lot better in a team that plays on the front foot, gets defenders running back towards their own goal and just lets him put the finishing touch on attacking moves.

Unfortunately, given our relative status in most games in the Prem, this has been unlikely at best. Similarly, in the Hughton days, our main supply line was a slow, ambling winger who had very little variety in his delivery- a floaty drifty ''go and attack it'' cross. 

I''m willing to give the guy a chance, now we have a bit more bite to us. Either way, I think it''ll be unlikely he''s still here at the start of next season.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]Massive dose of collective wishful thinking going on all over this thread.  I don''t blame you, I wish he was good too, but suggesting we haven''t been able to get the best out of him (and neither could the French side he was loaned to) is one-eyed nonsense.

[/quote]

Have you ever considered that the opposite view - that he is no good and never will be - is one eyed cynicism?   After all, good players sometimes struggle for no apparent reason  (eg. Iwan Roberts when he first arrived) and that in RVW''s case, his first season with us was a devastating blow to his confidence and last season was a season to try and rediscover it?  (And he was not a complete failure at St. Etienne btw).

These black or white arguments may seem ok on a message board, but in real life, the truth is somewhere in bewtween. He may well get sufficient confidence to at least start scoring again (Tuesday was a start) and be a decent part of the squad - or even more.  And it''s not wishful thinking either - it''s more a pragmatic and sensible view to take on a footballer who has definite ability, but is in the process of rebuilding a career that has taken a huge blip - and by all accounts he is working hard enough to impress his manager into at least starting games - and on Tuesday scoring what proved to be the winning goal.

Now you keep repeating yourself on this thread, something you like to accuse me of, but it doesn''t change the fact that RVW is still our player, is working hard and is worthy of some encouragement and positivity for a difficult situation that he is working hard to correct.  

[/quote]

1) Iwan Roberts had a broken toe in his first few games for us.  RvW was fully fit.  Cr*p comparison.

2) St Ettienne didn''t want to sign him, and having been a regular starter by the end of the season he was on the bench - which to me says "failure", I''m afraid.

3) If he comes good, nobody will be happier than me - apart from the "I told you so" brigade, of course.

4) However, I''ve seen enough football to know that he won''t come good, unless we change the system to suit him (inadvisable and unlikely).

5) You do repeat yourself.  You do it a lot.  It''s not an accusation as such, more an observation.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]

1) Iwan Roberts had a broken toe in his first few games for us.  RvW was fully fit.  Cr*p comparison.

2) St Ettienne didn''t want to sign him, and having been a regular starter by the end of the season he was on the bench - which to me says "failure", I''m afraid.

3) If he comes good, nobody will be happier than me - apart from the "I told you so" brigade, of course.

4) However, I''ve seen enough football to know that he won''t come good, unless we change the system to suit him (inadvisable and unlikely).

5) You do repeat yourself.  You do it a lot.  It''s not an accusation as such, more an observation.

[/quote]

1) RVW was injured too for a good while in his first season, so cr*p comparison it is not.2) St Ettienne gave him a chance, he scored a few, not many, but still a few, possiby for RVW, a season of consolidation.3) Good.4) You haven''t seen enough football to know anything. Football is nothing if not unpredictable.5) Yes, I repeat myself a lot.  As you do - and frequently on this thread.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]

1) Iwan Roberts had a broken toe in his first few games for us.  RvW was fully fit.  Cr*p comparison.

2) St Ettienne didn''t want to sign him, and having been a regular starter by the end of the season he was on the bench - which to me says "failure", I''m afraid.

3) If he comes good, nobody will be happier than me - apart from the "I told you so" brigade, of course.

4) However, I''ve seen enough football to know that he won''t come good, unless we change the system to suit him (inadvisable and unlikely).

5) You do repeat yourself.  You do it a lot.  It''s not an accusation as such, more an observation.

[/quote]

1) RVW was injured too for a good while in his first season, so cr*p comparison it is not.2) St Ettienne gave him a chance, he scored a few, not many, but still a few, possiby for RVW, a season of consolidation.3) Good.4) You haven''t seen enough football to know anything. Football is nothing if not unpredictable.5) Yes, I repeat myself a lot.  As you do - and frequently on this thread. [/quote]

1) It''s an awful comparison.  Roberts played despite being injured and the club admitted it affected his performances.  No such excuse for Ricky.

2) Wasn''t good enough.

3) Thanks.

4) Let me rephrase.  I am certain beyond any reasonable doubt that RvW will not be a success story at Norwich City FC.

5) You certainly do.  Carry on.

[kick it off 1,948]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]

1) Iwan Roberts had a broken toe in his first few games for us.  RvW was fully fit.  Cr*p comparison.

2) St Ettienne didn''t want to sign him, and having been a regular starter by the end of the season he was on the bench - which to me says "failure", I''m afraid.

3) If he comes good, nobody will be happier than me - apart from the "I told you so" brigade, of course.

4) However, I''ve seen enough football to know that he won''t come good, unless we change the system to suit him (inadvisable and unlikely).

5) You do repeat yourself.  You do it a lot.  It''s not an accusation as such, more an observation.

[/quote]

1) Iwan Roberts scored 4 goals in most of the season before bagging 3 in the final 2 home games. It''s a pretty reasonable comparison. Ricky was also injured for 2 months pretty early on in his first season if I''m not mistaken? Even good players struggle. Van PErsie went from hero to zero at United in the space of 18 months. Went from £28million player to signing for Fenerbahce and Europa League footy for 5mill.

2) I didn''t watch him at St Etienne (as I suspect neither did you). His stats there don''t look great though.

3) That''s your own thoughts and nobody knows whether that is genuine but you. I hope it is.

4) You don''t "know" anything. You have your opinion, and may be proven right, but the system we play now already infinitely more suits him than the one under Hughton, and it wouldn''t take too much tweaking to have Redderz and Brady playing the ball low and early. They see enough of the ball but at the moment favour cutting inside for the shot (more Redmond than Brady) or hitting the byline for the cross, which plays to Jerome''s strengths. They are both professional footballers, and perfectly capable of following an instruction to play the balls in early for Wolfy to get on the end of. It doesn''t require a complete overhaul of our system, it requires Ricky to put a bit more of a shift in hassling defenders (which he has done for us in some games so is clearly capable of) and Redmond and Brady to follow pretty simple instructions. Howson and Hoolahan are perfectly capable of cutting balls through the defence and playing through the middle that way, again, it''s not a massive shift in philosophy, and all it requires is simple instructions that our players are more than capable of following.

4) Both of you are equally repetitive, with your posts being of a higher level of wit than LDC''s normally are.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Indy_Bones"]

he''ll easily bag 15-20 a season

[/quote]

Are you talking about goals?

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="kick it off"]

4) Both of you are equally repetitive, with your posts being of a higher level of wit than LDC''s normally are.

[/quote]

Thank you.

It''s not difficult, but thank you.

Thanks.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="kick it off"]

4) Both of you are equally repetitive, with your posts being of a higher level of wit than LDC''s normally are.

[/quote]

Thank you.

It''s not difficult, but thank you.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Yep, good old bor, the pinkun''s answer to Jack Dee.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="kick it off"]

4) Both of you are equally repetitive, with your posts being of a higher level of wit than LDC''s normally are.

[/quote]

Thank you.

It''s not difficult, but thank you.

Thanks.

[/quote]

Yep, good old bor, the pinkun''s answer to Jack Dee. [/quote]

Whereas you are the Pink ''Un''s answer to Jack Sh*t?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Bor Bor Bor"][quote user="kick it off"]

4) Both of you are equally repetitive, with your posts being of a higher level of wit than LDC''s normally are.

[/quote]

Thank you.

It''s not difficult, but thank you.

Thanks.

[/quote]Yep, good old bor, the pinkun''s answer to Jack Dee. [/quote]

Whereas you are the Pink ''Un''s answer to Jack Sh*t?

[/quote]Typical resonse. Well done. Go to the top of the class.

[Indy 3,298]

Sorry Lakey, you opened yourself up to that quality response.....even you must of raised a smile on that one.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Response.

Already there, but thanks again.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

Can someone let me know when Lakey and Morty split up and how long has this new bromance with Bor been going on. [:)]

[Katie Borkins 1]

I''m just an inbetweener, wouldn''t dream of getting in the way of that serious relationship. But if Morty will keep going abroad for months at a time, Lakey will get lonely. Not blaming, just saying.

[Cobain18 0]

Thought I''d read 5th page of this thread to understand further views on RVW, I''ve just read a whole page of and argument with no football related discussion. That was disappointing.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Cobain18"]Thought I''d read 5th page of this thread to understand further views on RVW, I''ve just read a whole page of and argument with no football related discussion. That was disappointing.[/quote]

Sorry, but that is what happens if you dare to question a poster who thinks his view is the only one that counts.  All I did was question Bor''s repeated dismissal of anyone who tries to be positive about RVW.............

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="lake district canary"]

Sorry, but that is what happens if you dare to question a poster who thinks his view is the only one that counts.

[/quote]Somebody please tell me that Lakey''s account has been hacked.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Self-awareness doesn''t appear to be a strong suit of our Cumbrian colleague.

[Katie Borkins 1]

[quote user="Cobain18"]Thought I''d read 5th page of this thread to understand further views on RVW, I''ve just read a whole page of and argument with no football related discussion. That was disappointing.[/quote]

Oh well

Whatever

Never mind

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="lharman7"]Thanks for the response hogesar although it wasn''t in the form i asked but cheers anyhow.

I can only remember a few chances which he squandered but i firmly believe his confidence was shot very early on in the season which contributed to his overall poor season.

I tend to disagree with you on a number of points regarding his overall play e.g, pace, skill, first touch.

I don''t put RvW on a pedestal and I''m one of the few that hope (maybe blind) that he at least gets his career back on track and especially if its with us!

I just don''t understand the borderline hateful comments regarding a NCFC player.

Still awaiting Bor''s answers![/quote]

 

I never understand it Harmy. When I come on here and read the borderline hateful stuff that gets posted against Whitts or that used to be posted about Snoddy I sometimes just shake my head. These players put on the shirt and gave 100% week in week out. And then I look at the reverence paid to RVW by some of these same people and I shake my head some more. I have come to the conclusion that these posters just don''t fancy some players and fall in love with others. It''s romantic if nothing else...

 

Norwich City paid 8m for RVW two and a half years ago. They have had no return on that investment. I guess people will go to their usual "go to blame guy" for this failure. Hootun, Snoddy or maybe some like to trace the blame toRussell Martin playing centrehalf or even the cook and her cohorts. But for me, after all this time, I have to question if Ricky is up to the job.