I like the new kit....

[Guest]

I like Scottish misfits who don''t fit in north or south of the border.

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I also think Russell Martin''s best position is centre back. I thought Whittaker was easily our best fullback last season. I never wanted Lennon or McCarthy to be our manager. I thought Adams spent well last summer. I like it when we play Johnson and Tettey in the same team. I think Johnson fully deserved POTS. I thought Redmond had a great season with so many genuine assists. I feel we are blessed having Delia and MWJ as owners. I also like that Stephen Fry is on our BODs. I fully believe that the same people appointed our last four managers. And finally I don''t think I''ll ever fit in here......[/quote]

In the words (almost) of George II about General Wolfe:

‘Nutty, is he? Then I hope he will bite some other Canary fans’

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="Herman "]You''re just scared of intelligent people.
[/quote]

 

Do you want a fight ?

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]I also think Russell Martin''s best position is centre back. I thought Whittaker was easily our best fullback last season. I never wanted Lennon or McCarthy to be our manager. I thought Adams spent well last summer. I like it when we play Johnson and Tettey in the same team. I think Johnson fully deserved POTS. I thought Redmond had a great season with so many genuine assists. I feel we are blessed having Delia and MWJ as owners. I also like that Stephen Fry is on our BODs. I fully believe that the same people appointed our last four managers. And finally I don''t think I''ll ever fit in here......[/quote]

With the exception of wanting Lennon, I have to say that I agree with all of that Nigel.

[mrs miggins 0]

"sad nonsense"

lol

[Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0]

[quote user="cannigia1"]and for the record I find that Ipswich crazy guy amusing ..he likes the banter ..just a fan who has passion for his team[/quote]

You are "Ipswich crazy" !!

I claim my £10 etc

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Now then Miggo buddy - which of my opinions are sad and which are nonsense?

Lol

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,023]

Barclay seats 48/49 the 3rd, you beat me to it, but I do actually think that cannigia1 is Ipswich Crazy.........

[mrs miggins 0]

was in response to Dundee, not you Nutty. I should''ve quoted it.

[mrs miggins 0]

However I can answer that question. You think appointing Adams was not a mistake. It was.

[Highland Canary 76]

Absolutely Mrs M. As for Lennon, Ricardo, I suspect the board in a Bassongesc moment will go to underpin Lennon''s potential appointment at Leicester by the disposal of our most effective finisher, Hooper.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]However I can answer that question. You think appointing Adams was not a mistake. It was.[/quote]

I don''t really know how anyone can say that appointing Adams was a mistake, because unless I am mistaken, we were promoted last season.  Adams contributed to that by a level of positivity at the start of the season that saw us at the top - a start that we may not have had under any other manager who was being touted around at the time.     Those games at the start of the season were very important in the run of the season and although I wasn''t that positive myself about his appointment and criticised him as things got worse - the right steps were taken to rectify the situation.    Promotion was achieved through a good start to the season and a good end to the season, not just a good end to the season.

Would Malky have got us such a good start. Would Lennon?  Would Zola?  Or any others that were touted? Who knows, but Adams did get us off to a good start and is part of the success of the season, like it or not, so I for one cannot think it was a mistake to have appointed him. If we hadn''t been promoted it would have been a different story.  But we were.

[PurpleCanary 5,561]

[quote user="Highland Canary"]Absolutely Mrs M. As for Lennon, Ricardo, I suspect the board in a Bassongesc moment will go to underpin Lennon''s potential appointment at Leicester by the disposal of our most effective finisher, Hooper.[/quote]And if Lennon doesn''t get chosen by Leicester and Hooper doesn''t go there then you will freely admit your pro-Lennon argument has not been bolstered one jot...Having followed this story in the Leicester Mercury and elsewhere it seems clear it was purely the bookies who installed Lennon as the "favourite" on the flimsy basis that he had once played for them. There was no inside knowledge at all. But bookies, being bookies, had to make a book, and had to have a frontrunner. The equivalent of what often gets slagged off here as lazy journalism.The latest story is that Guus Hiddink was and is their first choice and has been approached - a move that makes vastly more sense than going for a manager whose Bolton team last season noticeably fell away after what may well have been just a new-manager bounce.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]However I can answer that question. You think appointing Adams was not a mistake. It was.[/quote]

I don''t really know how anyone can say that appointing Adams was a mistake, because unless I am mistaken, we were promoted last season.  Adams contributed to that by a level of positivity at the start of the season that saw us at the top - a start that we may not have had under any other manager who was being touted around at the time.     Those games at the start of the season were very important in the run of the season and although I wasn''t that positive myself about his appointment and criticised him as things got worse - the right steps were taken to rectify the situation.    Promotion was achieved through a good start to the season and a good end to the season, not just a good end to the season.

Would Malky have got us such a good start. Would Lennon?  Would Zola?  Or any others that were touted? Who knows, but Adams did get us off to a good start and is part of the success of the season, like it or not, so I for one cannot think it was a mistake to have appointed him. If we hadn''t been promoted it would have been a different story.  But we were.

[/quote]We never know if any managerial appointment will be a success until later but in hindsight Adams tenure WAS a mistake LDC. After a pretty brilliant start the wheels were coming off and something had to be done. Had he stayed I think we all know we would not have been promoted.Interesting to hear you say you were criticised him as things got worse but that was something you rarely, if ever, did with Chris Hughton. Here was another man who had clearly lost the plot and continued to do so for far longer than his successor.So why was that ?

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="mrs miggins"]However I can answer that question. You think appointing Adams was not a mistake. It was.[/quote]I don''t really know how anyone can say that appointing Adams was a mistake, because unless I am mistaken, we were promoted last season.  Adams contributed to that by a level of positivity at the start of the season that saw us at the top - a start that we may not have had under any other manager who was being touted around at the time.     Those games at the start of the season were very important in the run of the season and although I wasn''t that positive myself about his appointment and criticised him as things got worse - the right steps were taken to rectify the situation.    Promotion was achieved through a good start to the season and a good end to the season, not just a good end to the season. Would Malky have got us such a good start. Would Lennon?  Would Zola?  Or any others that were touted? Who knows, but Adams did get us off to a good start and is part of the success of the season, like it or not, so I for one cannot think it was a mistake to have appointed him. If we hadn''t been promoted it would have been a different story.  But we were.[/quote]We never know if any managerial appointment will be a success until later but in hindsight Adams tenure WAS a mistake LDC. After a pretty brilliant start the wheels were coming off and something had to be done. Had he stayed I think we all know we would not have been promoted.Interesting to hear you say you were criticised him as things got worse but that was something you rarely, if ever, did with Chris Hughton. Here was another man who had clearly lost the plot and continued to do so for far longer than his successor.So why was that ?[/quote]

I had a certain belief that Hughton - with the right players - would eventually find the right balance and had he achieved a staying up that season, the third season with further upgrades would for me have been the season to judge his overall worth.  But it got too bad that second season and things were so negative throughout the club, that it was just apalling to behold.    Hughton''s methods have merit - but he proved too weak and the players were not good enough on their own to carry it through ( as they proved under Adams too ). 

In short, there is no substitute for a strong manager and through all the trials and tribulations we have come out on top.   I''m not sure how, but we are all smiling now - and I''ll always think that Adams had a big part in getting us promoted with that positive start.   He gave us a strong start....he went at the right time...........we got our new hero in......so where was the mistake?   We could easily have appointed someone like Malky and had a dour mid-table season - but we didn''t - we got Adams and we got promoted.   No mistake there that I can see.

[ricardo 7,395]

Hindsight is indeed a wonderful gift and the history of NCFC is full of what ifs and if onlys.

The only thing we can ever be certain of is that NCFC will always find it hard in the Premier League regardless of who the manager is or the popularity of the shirt design.

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ricardo"]Hindsight is indeed a wonderful gift and the history of NCFC is full of what ifs and if onlys.[/quote]Binner. [;)]

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="lake district canary"]I had a certain belief that Hughton - with the right players - would eventually find the right balance and had he achieved a staying up that season, the third season with further upgrades would for me have been the season to judge his overall worth.  But it got too bad that second season and things were so negative throughout the club, that it was just apalling to behold.    Hughton''s methods have merit - but he proved too weak and the players were not good enough on their own to carry it through ( as they proved under Adams too ). 

In short, there is no substitute for a strong manager and through all the trials and tribulations we have come out on top.   I''m not sure how, but we are all smiling now - and I''ll always think that Adams had a big part in getting us promoted with that positive start.   He gave us a strong start....he went at the right time...........we got our new hero in......so where was the mistake?   We could easily have appointed someone like Malky and had a dour mid-table season - but we didn''t - we got Adams and we got promoted.   No mistake there that I can see.

[/quote]

That third season was never going to happen LDCWhen Adams was re-appointed Delia admitted in her pre-season radio interview that the Board had lost faith in CH''s stupefying tactics and he would have been replaced even if he''d kept us up. So we weren''t the only ones who''d lost the will to live with CH in charge......

[Horse Renoir 1]

Fully agree with all of that. The new kit in particular is my favorite for a long while, but I do love half and half designs. Also i think Whittaker has been amazing this year, I don''t remember him being directly at fault for one goal, he''s extremely well disciplined, tactically intelligent and he contributes so well going forwards.

Just one thing though, the criticism was of Johnson and Tettey playing together as a center midfield pair, in a 4 man midfield and I happen to agree with that. They don''t work well together at all and we look absolutely abysmal when those two are played together in a 442. The gaps and lack of intelligent movement in the middle of the park stifle us massively. Nothing wrong with playing them in the same team though

[city-till-i-die 7]

Whittaker had some good games. Also had some shockers.

Would like to see a "proper" CB next to bassong not a makeshift RB

But all in all we had a great season.

Differences of opinion is what gets people talking

#oneloveNCFC

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="city-till-i-die"]Whittaker had some good games. Also had some shockers.

Would like to see a "proper" CB next to bassong not a makeshift RB

But all in all we had a great season.

Differences of opinion is what gets people talking

#oneloveNCFC[/quote]

Just wondering if you consider Arsenal''s Koscielny

to be a "proper" CB?

[nutty nigel 7,534]

It''s interesting that I didn''t list appointing Adams as not being a mistake

on the opening post. It''s been debated to death on here and my stance has not

changed. Why am I at odds with so many others like dear old Miggo? Probably

because my perspective is different.

 

 

From my perspective Adams guided the team safely through a very difficult

time for the club. He had been pitched in after Hughton lost the crowd. Hughton

was probably still our best bet to stay up because he hadn''t lost the players.

However the atmosphere had become poisonous and we would need the fans on side

to have any chance in those last fixtures. The main casualty was Bassong. He was

more of a Chris Hughton man than a Norwich man. You could go as far as to say he

signed for the manager more than the club. Hughton was like a dad to him and he

would have behaved the same whoever was brought in.

 

 

We know what happened and relegation was a bitter pill made even more

unpalatable because it brought with it a massive wage cut. You only have to

think back to John Ruddy''s spat at the Barclay end to understand what that cut

meant to the players. People argue that they are still fantastically well paid

but while that is true I defy anyone to take a 40% cut and not be bitter. In

Seb''s case it was even harder to take because he would have felt that our best

chance of avoiding the drop was to stick with his father figure and mentor Chris

Hughton. So now Seb, who played no part in the final games, had a 40% wage cut

to contend with. It didn''t matter that it was Adams, if it had been Lennon or

Mackay or any of the other favourites Seb''s reaction would have been the same.

So Bassong went out on loan and got his head straight. Ironically I''d lay my

last penny that Chris Hughton helped put him straight.

 

 

Those were extremely difficult times and in my book Adams deserves a huge

amount of credit for guiding us through and staying in contention for

promotion. But he also signed three strikers in the summer and managed to get

two two of them firing. Lafferty didn''t come off but all signings are a gamble

and it''s rare for them all to come off.

 

 

It all got too much for Adams he resigned and the board acted swiftly to

appoint Neil. He added real belief to the team and they gained momentum and the

rest is history. Do I think we''d have got promoted if Adams hadn''t resigned? It

would take a huge leap of faith for me to say yes. But then it also takes a huge

leap of faith to say that any manager, including Alex Neil, could have

negotiated the summer and those early months.

 

 

There''s also a different perspective about Martin playing centre back.

CTID''s perspective of a right back being a makeshift centre back is a mind made

up. I see a very good defender who can play both positions but prefer him in the

centre where his proactive style and ability to spot danger is a big plus.

 

 

Oh and Johnson and Tettey? Did we not have our best PL spell since the 90s

with them in tandem centre mid? There was no need for that when we were going

for promotion last season though. But even then we saw Tettey caught out a few

times and the PL isn''t nearly so forgiving.

 

 

Interestingly Paul Lambert saw that Johnson could do a job on the left and

that Martin was a decent centre half that first season after we were

promoted ....

[mrs miggins 0]

"Why am I at odds with so many others like dear old Miggo? Probably because my perspective is different."

no $hit sherlock

Also you''ve based your main argument on the importance of Bassong and pay cuts. Need I say any more?

[lharman7 39]

nutty nigel wrote the following post at 05/07/2015 6:34 AM:

It''s interesting that I didn''t list appointing Adams as not being a mistake on the opening post. It''s been debated to death on here and my stance has not changed. Why am I at odds with so many others like dear old Miggo? Probably because my perspective is different.

From my perspective Adams guided the team safely through a very difficult time for the club. He had been pitched in after Hughton lost the crowd. Hughton was probably still our best bet to stay up because he hadn''t lost the players. However the atmosphere had become poisonous and we would need the fans on side to have any chance in those last fixtures. The main casualty was Bassong. He was more of a Chris Hughton man than a Norwich man. You could go as far as to say he signed for the manager more than the club. Hughton was like a dad to him and he would have behaved the same whoever was brought in.

We know what happened and relegation was a bitter pill made even more unpalatable because it brought with it a massive wage cut. You only have to think back to John Ruddy''s spat at the Barclay end to understand what that cut meant to the players. People argue that they are still fantastically well paid but while that is true I defy anyone to take a 40% cut and not be bitter. In Seb''s case it was even harder to take because he would have felt that our best chance of avoiding the drop was to stick with his father figure and mentor Chris Hughton. So now Seb, who played no part in the final games, had a 40% wage cut to contend with. It didn''t matter that it was Adams, if it had been Lennon or Mackay or any of the other favourites Seb''s reaction would have been the same. So Bassong went out on loan and got his head straight. Ironically I''d lay my last penny that Chris Hughton helped put him straight.

Those were extremely difficult times and in my book Adams deserves a huge amount of credit for guiding us through and staying in contention for promotion. But he also signed three strikers in the summer and managed to get two two of them firing. Lafferty didn''t come off but all signings are a gamble and it''s rare for them all to come off.

It all got too much for Adams he resigned and the board acted swiftly to appoint Neil. He added real belief to the team and they gained momentum and the rest is history. Do I think we''d have got promoted if Adams hadn''t resigned? It would take a huge leap of faith for me to say yes. But then it also takes a huge leap of faith to say that any manager, including Alex Neil, could have negotiated the summer and those early months.

There''s also a different perspective about Martin playing centre back. CTID''s perspective of a right back being a makeshift centre back is a mind made up. I see a very good defender who can play both positions but prefer him in the centre where his proactive style and ability to spot danger is a big plus.

Oh and Johnson and Tettey? Did we not have our best PL spell since the 90s with them in tandem centre mid? There was no need for that when we were going for promotion last season though. But even then we saw Tettey caught out a few times and the PL isn''t nearly so forgiving.

Interestingly Paul Lambert saw that Johnson could do a job on the left and that Martin was a decent centre half that first season after we were promoted ....

Hugely disagree on a few points NN.

Hughton HAD lost the players. In fact he had lost them very early on in the season. You could just see in there confidence and the demeanour the way they played. Hughton had sapped the life out of the players and to say otherwise is simply being blind.

Nutty, i don''t quite understand why you emphasize the relegation wage drop. Not for one minute did i think any of our players play for money or that the money really matters. If the wage drop (money) had any bearing on the players than i suspect we would have seen more players leave than we did instead of staying for the championship fight. Oh and look who did leave, Fer, Snodgrass!

I believe it did matter to Bassong who took over from Hughton. If it had not have been Adams, Bassong would not have uttered the (alleged) comment towards a different manager. Would think especially Lennon. So no, Bassongs reaction would not have been the same.

Other than that NN i agree with you for the rest.

[city-till-i-die 7]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="city-till-i-die"]Whittaker had some good games. Also had some shockers.

Would like to see a "proper" CB next to bassong not a makeshift RB

But all in all we had a great season.

Differences of opinion is what gets people talking

#oneloveNCFC[/quote]

Just wondering if you consider Arsenal''s Koscielny

to be a "proper" CB?[/quote]

DIDNT REALISE HE PLAYED FOR NCFC ?????

[JF 694]

Hughton had lost the players. A player said to me that Hughton was a really nice bloke and tactically sound but as an attacking player he didnt want to go to work for him

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="JF"]Hughton had lost the players. A player said to me that Hughton was a really nice bloke and tactically sound but as an attacking player he didnt want to go to work for him[/quote]

To say he had lost the players would be wrong imo. It depends on which players you talk to - and hence part of the problem.   There were undoubtedly splits and different views about Hughton within the team.    Universally liked - yes, universally respected as a manager - probably not.  

There were probably at  least three different areas of possible rifts and splits in the

group - maybe not serious rifts, but at least different views within the

squad. We only got Redmond because of his respect for Hughton and we only got Bassong because of his connection with Hughton - and maybe one or two others as well who would be supporters of the manager.  We then had RVW and Fer, Dutch newcomers - and we had the old guard who were Lambert type players - and we had Snodgrass, who appeared as the main "character"  after Holt left - so the togetherness of the squad may well have been tested from within when things got tough.  Bassong not performing well that season may well have been a symptom of that.

Players have to take some of the responsibility when things go  wrong - and as I''ve said previously they were as much to blame imo as the manager. Holt was such a unifying influence when he was here under both Lambert and Hughton - and we really missed that after he left - and all these things combined in that second season under Hughton to cause the downfall.  Yes, Hughton was the manager and took ultimate responsibility - but simplistic statements like "he lost the players" do not paint the whole picture.

[morty 0]

So Lakey which players have you talked to, and who was lost, and who wasn''t?

[Highland Canary 76]

He had the board until it was too late which led to the whole Adams fiasco,

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="JF"]Hughton had lost the players. A player said to me that Hughton was a really nice bloke and tactically sound but as an attacking player he didnt want to go to work for him[/quote]


To say he had lost the players would be wrong imo. It depends on which players you talk to - and hence part of the problem.   There were undoubtedly splits and different views about Hughton within the team.    Universally liked - yes, universally respected as a manager - probably not.  


There were probably at  least three different areas of possible rifts and splits in the group - maybe not serious rifts, but at least different views within the squad. We only got Redmond because of his respect for Hughton and we only got Bassong because of his connection with Hughton - and maybe one or two others as well who would be supporters of the manager.  We then had RVW and Fer, Dutch newcomers - and we had the old guard who were Lambert type players - and we had Snodgrass, who appeared as the main "character"  after Holt left - so the togetherness of the squad may well have been tested from within when things got tough.  Bassong not performing well that season may well have been a symptom of that.


Players have to take some of the responsibility when things go  wrong - and as I''ve said previously they were as much to blame imo as the manager. Holt was such a unifying influence when he was here under both Lambert and Hughton - and we really missed that after he left - and all these things combined in that second season under Hughton to cause the downfall.  Yes, Hughton was the manager and took ultimate responsibility - but simplistic statements like "he lost the players" do not paint the whole picture.



[/quote]

 

You''re not trying to re-write history again, are you Lakey?

Holt was a magnificent unifying force for three years before Hughton arrived. After Hughton arrived and, during the first few months of  the first Hughton season in 2012, it quickly became apparent that Holt was not a happy camper with the new approach as his goal tally dropped off significantly along with the lack of attacking intent for the team. Indeed, it was not until the final two winning games of the season where the change in intent on the field was so obviously a disregard of the players for Hughton''s methods that Holt looked like a semblance of his old self as the team scored seven times. Ironically, of course, those results helped Hughton keep his job but, nonetheless, Holt was gone before Hughton''s second season would get underway.

 

Just wanted to clarify history for you. It''s one thing to distort things for yourself but I''m sure you don''t want to do the same thing to others.