Hillsborough 1989

[Crabbycanary3 994]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-31821211

This has stunned me today. Certain people apparently, already knew this, proving it was the key. It''s happened today.

It reminds me of the film A Few Good Men, when Jack Nicholson admits his giving of a ''code red'' order, in front of the Court room. A Hollywood moment then, a much more serious moment today

I have learnt today that the guy who I went up to Villa Park with, for our semi final, has died suddenly, so this has become a poignant day for a lot of people, including me in my own little world

[Tim Dawson 0]

The whole thing is a can of worms, its something i have a lot of opinions on but will keep my mouth shut, the biggest shame was the death of 96 genuine fans who actually purchased tickets, sad day

[BarclayWazza 93]

Still, none of this would have happened if fans hadn''t turned up trying to get in without a ticket. I accept that lots of bad decisions were made after that but everyone who got in without a ticket that day is just as responsible.

[Tim Dawson 0]

Exactly, but don`t criticize those loveable Liverpool fans, its never their fault.

[Howson is now! 0]

Regardless of what happened, who was at fault, how much you hate Liverpool fans etc, what those families have had to go through has been nothing short of disgusting. For him to turn around 26 years after the event and say "sorry, I was lying the whole time" is disgusting and every single person that allowed this cover up to happen needs to be held accountable for their part in this.

There will always be fault in an accident or tragedy, whether it''s structural, human error, or environmental but there has to be responsibility. Correct policing of the situation could have meant that nobody died that day but of course as we know, that never happened.

[lake district canary 4,835]

 [quote user="BarclayWazza"]Still, none of this would have happened if fans hadn''t turned up trying to get in without a ticket. I accept that lots of bad decisions were made after that but everyone who got in without a ticket that day is just as responsible.[/quote]On the face of it the commander was faced with an immediate decision of life and death.  Not open the gates and people may die.  A simple one under the circumstances - so under pressure he ordered the gates open.  One problem led to another - and that could have been foreseen, but the pressure of the situation/panic/lack of experience caused the tragedy.  There is no doubt mistakes were made and that Liverpool fans contributed to the situation, but the issue is more about lies and covering tracks than anything else. 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

I just wonder how many of you are aware that 3 weeks before Hillsborough we played Liverpool here at Carrow Road and 1200 Liverpool fans turned up without tickets. It is something they did back in that era all over the country.

Not saying anymore on the matter other than the 96 who died in my book were innocent victims but the city of Liverpool needs to take a long hard look at itself with regard to the behaviour of ticketless individuals who turned up all over the country at grounds expecting to gain entry by their sheer volume of numbers.

[Syteanric 1]

so... when''s Justice for Heysel starting?

[......and Smith must score. 1,600]

Tilly''s post about ticketless Scousers turning up at away games is quite revealing.

When a club gets promoted to the Premier League I believe they are briefed amongst other things about away fans trying to blag their way in on matchdays.

Liverpool and Everton were the worst offenders when we went up under Nigel Worthington apparently....

[BarclayWazza 93]

You''d have thought they''d have learned.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/2314661/Gerrard-defends-Liverpool-fans.html

What bugs me about it is that you can blame the police, stadium commanders or whoever, just whatever you do, don''t mention that a group of Liverpool fans who consistently travel away without tickets and force their way into the ground might have been the primary factor.

Always the victims...

[BarclayWazza 93]

"Correct policing of the situation could have meant that nobody died that day but of course as we know, that never happened."

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but remember this was in a time that hooliganism was rife, there were regularly pitch invasions and the authorities had to make a decision over what to do. Yes, they made the wrong decision but that decision was inevitably affected by events over the past years of which Liverpool fans were a big part.

[thedarkside 0]

Spot on Tilly!! As someone who worked in the Police Force at that time I can remember the practice which I seem to remember was called steaming whereby the coaches pulled into motorway service stations etc and 4-50 ''locusts'' ran in and stripped the shelves! You could follow the fans all the way from Liverpool by these reports.

 

Sheer weight of numbers stopped any real chance of preventing it.

[yellow 63 25]

Remember the barriers that used to be across Clarence Road to enable ticket checks to be carried out and i''m pretty certain when we played Liverpool in 1993 there was loads lurking around the barrier area without tickets trying to pick easy targets

[Andy Larkin 15]

Oooh… look, look over there… something else is happening that is far worse than is happening over here!Ignore the big point and concentrate on the distractions eh lads? Well done. Well done indeed!

[nutty nigel 7,902]

All these other things happened. And plenty more besides. Including reportedly the smashing down of exit gates in other stadiums to gain entrance without a ticket. However on this occasion the gates were opened by the police. The way I see it all the other things could have been part of the decision on the day. But instead the guy just lied. And it would appear lied for all the following years. So an admission and apology was all he had left. The time had passed where he could have said "I made the decision because in the past Liverpool fans had......".

 

 

[Tim Dawson 0]

Glad you mentioned that game Tilly at the beginning of April 1989, i stopped for breakfast at a truckers cafe that was on the A47 near Peterborough, Liverpool fans started to wreck it just before we were leaving, at the Compleat angler before the game they were throwing lights from the pub at passing boats, and at the B and b that night a tv was thrown thru the window, loveable fans.

Yes the lies told have been awful but many groups are accountable for this tragedy.....

[Willmeister 35]

As Jas said it''s incredible how Heysel is just swept under the rug. An incident when hooligans caused 39 deaths. It''s the 30th anniversary this year, what''s the betting that isn''t mentioned at all. Also the impact that the European ban had on us as a club. Who knows where we would be if that haven''t had happened.

Hillsborough was a tragedy and the cover up was appalling. However as people have said Liverpool fans must take some accountability for their actions particularly in the past.

[thedarkside 0]

This is a very interesting read:  http://www.theanfieldwrap.com/2013/05/what-about-justice-for-heysel/  there is a further link in the text which refers to a book 25 years on (or something like that).

The first link accepts that Liverpool ''fans'' were primarily responsible but the second link (funnily enough written by a Liverpool fan) blames everybody else Uefa, local Police, stewards, Juve fans, far-right militants, fans of other English teams, do you start to see a theme here?

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

This is always an emotive subject. Nobody goes to the football expecting to die and it''s a tragedy that fans did at Hillsborough, Bradford, Ibrox etc

The Hillsborough cover up is, and always has been, appalling and I understand the swell of feeling that has emanated since the copper admitted to lying.

But it doesn''t end there, does it? The big problem has always been the "lumping together" of all the fans. Blaming "the fans" as a collective was wrong - those that died had reached the ground at a respectable time and were waiting to see a cup semi-final. If you were the parent or family of one of the victims, hearing that they were being blamed for what happened would be hurtful and anger inducing. Of course they''d go to whatever lengths possible to prove that their loved ones had done nothing to cause their death.

But just as it''s wrong to blame ALL the fans, it has to be equally wrong to exonerate them all because those that died were innocent.

The opening of the gate was clearly a contributory factor but that only ever became an issue due to the weight of numbers arriving late - whether they had tickets or not is again open to debate as Tilly has pointed out there was an element of LFC fans with previous for this. From there, any number of mistakes were made that contributed to the worst day I can remember in football.

The copper has finally come clean - 26 years too late - and while it doesn''t change anything or bring anyone back, we''re a bit closer to the truth.

I wonder if any of the fans that turned up late and rushed the gate are going to hold up their hands and say 26 years later that, yes, their actions also contributed to that tragedy?

Maybe they will. My personal feeling is that they''ll continue to hide in the shadow cast by the death of the innocent; but just as that copper has sat on his lie for 26 years, they''ll know who they are and the blood is on their hands too.

[Tim Allman 1]

A guy who I used to work with many years ago was(is) still a big Leeds fan, attended the Leeds vs Coventry semi-final in 1987 – two years earlier. This was also played at Hillsborough and Leeds were allocated the Leppings Lane End of the ground. Remember chatting with him about in the days after the 1989 semi-final as at the time I didn’t know he was at the 1987 game.

How he described his experience there is very much the same as the words in the link below.

http://thehillsboroughdisasterdocumentary.com/2011/11/18/hillsborough-leeds-v-coventry-1987-semi-final/

[Howson is now! 0]

What a haunting piece Tim. So everybody that had ever been to that ground could see it was an accident waiting to happen. I honestly never even knew about the Leeds Coventry incidents.

[K Lo 246]

[quote user="Howson is now"]What a haunting piece Tim. So everybody that had ever been to that ground could see it was an accident waiting to happen. I honestly never even knew about the Leeds Coventry incidents.[/quote]

Footage of the Leeds Vs Coventry FA Cup Semi here.Back in 1981 there were overcrowding problems when Spurs played WolvesThe ''81 match I find really chilling as it had the ''89 disaster written all over it. The signs were there, it seems to me that it was an inherently dangerous stand that needed close attention every large crowd to avoid disaster.Arguably, the match should have been post-poned by 30 mins to an hour, with the information relayed outside the ground to allow the fans to move.

[DundeeFc 0]

it took the b,astard years to admit it ..slimey corrupt Tory pric.k

[? 0]

Up the SNP hey Dundee?????

[DundeeFc 0]

labour

[DundeeFc 0]

Maggie thatcher was a demon she covered the Hillsborough disaster up ..and she knew about Jimmy savile

[TIL 1010 5,246]

And along comes Dundee just to show what a brainless immature fool he is. How to wreck a thread in one easy post. [:(][:@]

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="DundeeFc"]Maggie thatcher was a demon she covered the Hillsborough disaster up ..and she knew about Jimmy savile[/quote]

Stick to your own board nobhead

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Dicky"][quote user="DundeeFc"]Maggie thatcher was a demon she covered the Hillsborough disaster up ..and she knew about Jimmy savile[/quote]

Stick to your own board nobhead[/quote]he is... he''s about as much of a dundee fan as you or I...It''s a current poster on here....place bets now

[spindrift 23]

The issue of ticketless fans was addressed in the Taylor Report. The Taylor Inquiry & Report dealt with issue of ticketless fans very clearly.

There were fewer than 30 ticketless fans by best estimates.

In a crowd of ten thousand it''s possible that the 30 fans may have had a bearing on what happened. Assuming that every ticketless fan pushed with all their strength at the back of the crowd then they contributed to the disaster to the tune of 0.3%

The police caused the disaster. Duckenfield admits today - not only did he open the gate but he closed the tunnel - thereby directly causing the 96 deaths.

Ever since police failings killed those people the dead have been attacked and maligned. Did you know the police extracted blood from the corpses of children to try, and fail, to prove they were drunk? It suited corrupt police and venal politicians to blame fans, and the lies told by a pliant media resonate today among the gullible.