Highland Canary

I hope I''m wrong about QPR but we shall see.. As for City - it''s punch up front we need! I''m am not aware that I am anyone in disguise.

It is likely in my opinion that we will be relegated this season. Spending too much such that the financial viability of the football club is threatened based on playing in the championship would obviously cripple us. The job of the CEO/board of directors is to get the judgment on spending correct. Spend too little and relegation is inevitable. Spend too much but still get relegated means the future of the club is at risk. The broader issue is that with the size of our ground (too small) and the lack of external investment into the football club it is unlikely we will remain in the PL in the medium term even if we do manage to stay up this year. Opens up the debate on the longer term ownership of the football club and whether we want a community type club or one based on a Tony Fernandes type scenario (if someone like this can be found). Ultimately, which of these two models is preferable is a personal judgment but I''d prefer to watch championship football rather than no football if that is the choice to be made.

QPR did look poor. With the influx of players to that club I suspect it will take a few games for them to gel. But with Hughes at the helm for the whole season and with the quality in their team QPR will finish in a comfortable mid-table slot. City on the other hand look much improved over the Fulham debacle. However, we still didn''t win the match. Hopefully we''ll see two up front regularly from now. In my opinion, without a quality, quick striker to support Holt we''re in for a long, difficult season. We looked better with Simeon but he also missed good chances which a better striker might - should - convert. Two points lost.  And yes, it does feel like 2004 to me.

I agree. Thought EB was our most improved player in the latter part of last season. It was certainly evident from melting through the Fulham game that one of the problems was lack of pace in the team. Really hope Hughton goes for it on Saturday - we need to win home games such as this. Please Holt and Jackson or Vaughan to start as well.

An excellent post Purple. In my time watching City I would say the top two managers were Bond and Lambert with Stringer then Walker not far behind. The team exceeded expectations under Lambert. Getting these players to perform at the same level for a second season would have been hard for Lambert, more difficult for any other manager. Hence, you have to improve the average quality of the squad that means higher wages and our financial position means we can''t afford to do so without threatening the financial viability of the club which, thankfully, Bowkett has publicly said he is unwilling to do. So, to compete in the premier league over the medium term the club needs external investment and, probably, an exceptional manager. Time will tell if Hughton is that man or not. But our general situation - if not yesterday''s specific performance - is all to do with money. There is a strong positive correlation between football performance and wage spend. In other words, on average the more a club spends the higher the league position. Of course, we can all point to exceptions. Arguably, we were one such last year. But you can only expect to beat the odds for so long. This is a challenge which we should not underestimate.

A number of posters on here have pointed to the scale of the challenge faced by Hughton and often got roundly criticised for their negativity. Lambert was an exceptional manager and motivator. He built his team. A fearless team. A team with exceptions I can count on one hand always turned up to matches. We knew the weaknesses of the Lambert team - but lack of spirit wasn''t one of them. The tactics were wrong yesterday. Belief seemed absent. Creativity was lacking. For the first time walking away from an away match for several years there was that deja vue of City just not being competitive in this league. Lambert made an average group of players - in premier league quality terms - play exceptional football week in week out. Hughton has to change tactics - two up front against QPR is a must - and engender belief. The premier league is unforgiving. I remember being amused by Ipswich''s second season in the premier when they simply couldn''t score after a season when I think they were top 6 the season before. QPR is a vital game.

Couldn''t agree more - we need a quick, quality striker to play alongside Holt. Let''s hope the rumours around Vaughan''s departure means a new signing is in the offing .

Just home. A very dispiriting performance. Last season when Lambert set us up with three at the back we felt the game was as good as over and so it proved. But the key difference between last season and this was belief, or rather lack of belief. City were really poor today - as many have already testified. Few of us are fans of one up front - Holt, who wasn''t one of our poorest players, had little or no service. There is an obvious lack of pace in the team and, in my opinion, if we fail to bring a pacy striker - and quality - striker alongside Holt I fear our goals tally will be insufficient to avoid relegation. More worrying, however, was the lack of creativity on the ball and the sort of belief that Lambert engendered in the team. For those who have constantly pointed to our position last season as evidence that we will be OK, this performance should represent a wake up call. Lambert has left. We must move on. But he made an average group of players play exceptional football last season. If Hughton doesn''t engender belief in the players straight away we will struggle. Let''s hope for three points next week against QPR - looking at 40 points - three from QPR is essential.

[quote user="I am a Banana"]Rumor has it that the players didn''t really like him?! And that they like what Hughton is aiming to do. Only time will tell.[/quote] Perhaps, that''s why Lambert was so effective?

I wish I could see the world the same way as LDC. But why haven''t we more significantly strengthened the team over the summer? If the club is serious about staying in the PL - especially if we play a more conservative brand of football under Hughton - we need to invest in quality in the team.

1. 19th 2. Utd 3. Swansea, Norwich, Southampton

I really don''t think we should rely on Lappin as LB cover. Look how many games Drury - a specialist LB - played following Tierney''s injury. Given how leaky our defence was last season - we should be investing in this position rather than the opposite.

I hope none of us wish for City to fail this season. But, in my opinion, I''m not convinced that we''ve moved forwards over the close season in terms of signings.  It would be another fantastic achievement should we manage another season in the PL. But to achieve this I think it''s essential that we have pace up front to support Holt. It was also disappointing that Vaughan didn''t feature today. Potentially, he offers some of the pace that I think we need. I do hope he''s not loaned out this season, especially if a proven striker does not come our way. The league looks relatively stonger this season - we need to improve considerably to maintain our premier league status. This time next week we''ll have some real football to talk about!

[quote user="barclay seats 48/49 "]Totally agree with the OP...anyone who says they are not worried by that display today is deleuded ...we looked shocking .... and that is not ok just because its a friendly .. its for real next week , and it does not look like the manager has much idea about how to tackle the season with the players at his disposal, and he doesn''t seem able to  get the couple of extra players we desperately need , I feel very worried] . I think we should be worried. Positives - Turner and Tierney. Other than that - last season Martin looked stronger at CB than RB, a real pity we''ve not got Naughton for another season. More worrying was the lack of pace in the team - Snodgrass, in my opinion, did not work in the link role. Personally would prefer two up front (Holt and Vaughan?) but failing that Bennett has more pace for this role. Off to Fulham again next week - not my favourite ground or City''s - not optimistic as to the result either but looking forward to the game all the same! 

Yet another thread which soon degenerates into a debate about the validity, or otherwise, of various posters’ views.  A forum should be about debate of the issues – those whose views are pessimistic are equally valid to those who are more positive. If not ‘underwhelmed’ I must confess to being at least ‘concerned’ about our preseason.  Just because we finished 12th does not confer safety for next season.  Bolton were relegated from a 14th spot finish the previous season. Those of us who have followed City for many years appreciate football is a cyclical business. At some point our fortunes will turn – hopefully not this season. But our signings thus far indicate we do not have the financial muscle to compete with many – if any – of the other premier league clubs. In such circumstances an incremental improvement to the squad is the strategy thus the club has chosen to follow. A question which is therefore valid to ask is – have we strengthened our squad relative to the teams around us in the relegation mini-league? As has been extensively debated elsewhere, I would argue that the loss of Naughton, Drury and Whitbread and their replacements by Whittaker and Turner does not represent the strengthening that many of us feel is necessary in our defence.  I also think that we need another striker to support/provide competition for Holt. I simply don’t believe that should Holt be injured at the beginning of the season Vaughan (assuming he’s still here), Jackson and Morison have enough goals between them to keep us in the premier league

[quote user="crabbycanary"][quote user="Highland Canary"] Greatest, has to be Milk Cup. Personally, most enjoyable was 3-2 away win on boxing day 1982(?). Standing behind the goal and remember the match being won late on by an O''Neill screamer. Those games at Christmas and Easter always had a special atmosphere. [/quote] Highland - I was right there also! Outside of his boot, top corner, we went a bit mental didn''t we? [/quote] Yes - was all jolly entertaining! I think we used to look forward to games against Ipswich even more then, home or away. Carra was rarely full so local derbies brought a special atmosphere. How watching football has changed since the late 70s/ early 80s - looking back this was a dark time for football.

Greatest, has to be Milk Cup. Personally, most enjoyable was 3-2 away win on boxing day 1982(?). Standing behind the goal and remember the match being won late on by an O''Neill screamer. Those games at Christmas and Easter always had a special atmosphere.

[quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]  I''d much rather we pushed the boat out for Naughton and another centre half. [/quote] Absolutely agree. Defence is where we need most investment,

All this talk about Snodgrass - a good player but I still see defence as a more critical area (and, arguably, a striker too). If our budget is so limited compared to competitor clubs I''d prefer one or two players of superior quality rather than adding further ''squad'' players. I understand the arguments about not judging the squad for another month but we should not be complacent about the next season. The premier league is stronger, the promoted teams have resource and are spending. Unfortunately, I can''t see QPR struggling next year either. Will we be playing with the exuberance of the newly promoted Lambert team of 12 months ago? I think that''s unlikely too. So, at the very least, we need a better defence, already weakened by the loss of Drury, Whitbread and Naughton.     

Agreed time for action. Our key competitors, for example, Reading and Southampton, are strengthening - Gunter reportedly signing for Reading. Our defence needs new starters - and let''s not forget we''ve lost three key defenders Naughton, Whitbread and Drury. Imo half a season from Whitbread is a better bet than existing defensive cover such as Ward and Barnett. 

I agree I think we still need five or six new faces - but if I was to pick three LB, CH and srtiker positions, in my opinion, are of the highest priority.

From an accounting perspective I would fully endorse Tangible''s analysis. The reason Manchester City are surpassing Manchester United is simply the greater investment/backing of the owners of that club. Unsurprisinly, there is a strong, positive correlation between a club''s wage bill and PL finishing position. Put simply Manchester City have the deepest pockets in the PL, we should not be surprised by their success. 

Agreed Wiz. Great news regarding Holt but if he was to be injured at the beginning of the season there''s not enough goals among Morison, Jackson and Martin - difficult to judge regarding Vaughan, let''s hope his fitness is better next season. Defence is where we really need strengthening in depth I hope we spend much of our transfer budget here - I hope I''m wrong but simply can''t see us repeating our goals tally again next season so we need to stop a few more! In my view we still need LB, RB, CH potential starters to provide real competition in these positions.  

Fantastic news. We couldn''t have replaced Holt''s goals with £6m let alone his influence on the crowd and team. From what we can see as outsiders, the situation might have been better handled but the outcome is what matters in the end. Keep calm and bring on Grant Holt for another three seasons! 

I have mixed views on Surman. Is he a good squad member, probably yes. Would he be my first choice starter in midfield, possibly not. The broader question much discussed on this board is who would you like to see brought in this Summer? There was considerable debate in that thread that we need a left back, right back, centre half, defensive midfield player and one or two strikers dependent on the Holt saga. With a budget of say between say £15m and £25m across the season – views seem to differ on the exact amount – I would suggest that this amount is likely to be more than swallowed up by the players above, especially as the idea is to strengthen what we already have here. So I’m not convinced that Surman is a natural starter nor for that matter do I think Martin is a natural starter, at right back at least. Should both of these contracts have been renewed, yes, because of our budget constraints discussed above. My view of Surman – based on missing only four games home and away last season – is that he is a classy midfielder, especially going forward, Wolves away being the most memorable performance from my perspective last season.  However, and acknowledging that he does cover a lot of ground each match, he is a less effective player going back and supporting the defence. I’m sure this is an area of our game that Hughton will look to improve as I don’t think we can rely on scoring as many goals next season as this. We therefore need to concede fewer goals! Realistically, the premier league looks stronger next year with the three teams coming up each having bigger budgets than us and also replacing three relatively weak teams. We will need squad players such as Surman but need new blood for our starting eleven too. From what I’ve read, it does seem that Hughton is likely to look for a more settled team than under Lambert. In terms of starting eleven, I’d go for: Ruddy New player – Bennett – New player or Martin – Tierney Pilkington – Howson – New player or Johnson – Bennett Hoolohan Holt or new player