Clint

Essjayess, good post but I guess the whole point of my thread is what is the point in keeping Farke? Yes, as a club we’re in a much better position than previously and I don’t dispute, we’ll probably have a decent season next year under Farke. But if we did go up again, which would be the expectation, what would be different? We would just end up exactly where we are now. Surely if we’re ever aiming to be an established top flight team, we need a manager who can cut it at that level? Of do we sack Farke if we get promoted again? I expect not! I understand the limitations in the squad and spending etc but that doesn’t hide the shortcomings of the management team. I guess another question would be how much input does Farke have in the recruitment? In my head, someone had to take the can for that as it’s been absolutely dire.

Cantiaci, maybe but I think a lot of what we achieved was brought on by momentum. Those late winners can do a massive amount for confidence and ultimately we had decent players who improved immeasurably with that. This thread isn’t about how good we were last season, we were brilliant for the second half of the season, it’s about what Farke is adding as a manager at this level. The point of my post is that his in game management was very basic last year but it got us through some tricky times, that then lead to the confidence that brought about the latter part of the season. The point is at this level, it’s just not as simple as bringing on Rhodes. Many matches this season we’ve ended up with a vast number of attackers on the pitch but still create no chances for them. This is fairly obvious. As I said on my original post, it’s not a game of championship manager, although last season very much felt like it was at times. So did Farke just rude his luck last season and it was a perfect storm?

So if we’re using last season as the benchmark, we did unbelievably well to get promoted. But, we didn’t play well as regularly as people may think. A lot of the time we were trailing and scored equalisers/winners late on purely down to throwing everything at the opposition. That doesn’t work at this level. If you’re losing in the championship and have Rhodes on the bench, you bring him on, get him involved and you’ve got half a chance. It doesn’t work at this level and that’s basically what Farke has resorted to all season but without having Rhodes! It’s not particularly clever, he just had better attacking players at his disposal than the opposition last season.

Again some good points but setting your team up to defend properly or look remotely attacking from set pieces is basic. We never look either. I’ve not checked the stats but I suspect that there is no other team in any English league that has failed to win a single league point when behind this season? Even if that has come about by bringing on the big man and lumping it up to him. We have not a single point from going behind. We couldn’t even scrape a draw against Crawley in the cup. Is this not down to Farke at some level then?

There’s some reasonable comments on here in terms of why we should persist with Farke but I will ask the question again, do we think another season in the championship would make him a better manager should we be promoted again? He clearly has a number of good points but learning from his mistakes, doesn’t appear to be one of them! We have come back from behind in one match this season in all competitions, that is an appalling statistic. That tells you all you need to know in respect of his influence on games at this level. He is far too reactive. I’ll rephrase the question, what has Farke done this season that would make anyone want to keep him as manager? What value do we actually think has he added to our results?

Elaborate Hogesar. Maybe you can enlighten me as to what Farke has done well this season?

I get the sentiment but what’s the point in giving him next season? If he gets us up again, what do we think would happen? The mistakes are the same that have been happening for three years. We got away with it last season due to a perfect storm of attacking talent. He’s not going to improve as a premier league manager with another season in the championship is he? I also wholeheartedly agree with the appalling recruitment but are we saying Farke had no part of that?

I really don’t see the benefit in persisting. It’s the same mistakes tonight that’s we’re happening three years ago in the championship.... Zonal marking, which is particularly hopeless in a struggling side as no one wants to take responsibility for anything. Conceding goals either shortly before or shortly after half time. Down to a lack of focus. Lack of in-game management. We all know the deal with this so I won’t go into it. I do find the approach of doing nothing until we’re losing and then bring on every attacking player you have with 20 mins left particularly annoying. It’s not championship manager. The appalling set-pieces from us. How often have we scored, minus Vrancic, who sits on the bench every match. Its just so many of the same problems. I don’t see what the point in giving him next season would do as he’s clearly so far out of his depth at this level it’s unbelievable. Keane has just said that they changed tactics at half time, just as Southampton did Friday night. What do we honestly hope to achieve with Farke in charge?

After Friday’s debacle, this is very bold and possibly very stupid. Fair enough Friday was terrible but on that basis, how do McLean and Drmic keep their places? Why still no Lietner or Vrancic? This will either be a masterstroke, which looks unlikely at this stage, or Farke has started digging his own grave. Fingers crossed its the former.

Unless we are never allowed to go to the football again, how do the negative nelly’s on here think it will ever be implemented? This virus is going to be with us for a very long time. Theres talk of other leagues looking to allow some fans in this season and I believe it’s already been stated that they’re hoping to have some fans at the FA cup final. We will be back in, in some capacity next season with exactly that same problems that we would face now. I quite honestly do not see any problems that cannot be overcome with a bit of careful planning.

I agree with Capt Pants in that I’m still unsure what happened with Amadou. Clearly he was identified as the defensive shield and physicality for the midfield. I don’t buy into the fact his passing game was not upto our standard as our standards are actually pretty low (Friday being a prime example of this). His job in the team would not be the pivot or to spray 30 yard passes about. His job would be as mentioned above and just keep it simple with the ball, allowing a Leitner or a Vrancic to keep the ball moving forward. It appears we’ve moved away from a midfield of players who are specialists in their own role but more limited in others, in order to play people who are average at everything. I’d rather have a midfield combination of two 7/10s in their own specialism working together, than two 4/10s at everything.

Let’s hope Everton give their all tonight and are completely shattered for us. A couple of (non-serious) injuries and/or red cards wouldn’t go amiss either! Anyway, team... Krul Aarons Godfrey Klose Lewis Tettey Vrancic Buendia Steiperman Hernandez Pukki

Ged, you’d have a valid point if any of our players had performed well this season. Cantwell (who is very inconsistent and already pointed out, regularly loses possession) and Krul are really the only two who have even remotely stepped up. Possibly Pukki as well but he has not looked the same player since late 2019. Marco, along with the players you mention, haven’t been great so far but who in midfield has? If he improves others around him, then it’s worth playing him. It would be worth having a look at the results with/without Marco in the team? I know most of Pukki’s goals from open play have come when he’s been playing. Besides, it’s just my opinion (and possibly fact)....

I said on another thread that I think he’s a reasonable player but to get picked every week without fail, is a bit of a stretch. IMO we need to get Marco back in the team. Technically he’s not the greatest (but then neither is McLean) but his physicality and unpredictability makes him difficult to play against. It is also very clear that he brings out the best in Pukki and arguably brings the wide players into the game more as he can hold up play and offer a shield of sorts. Without him in the team, our front three just struggles too much physically. Another clear problem that was not addressed in January when we just signed another small and weak technical player!

So far we’ve had our rivals gain from in 1 in 9,000 technology failure, a 93rd minute equaliser and a 95 minute winner. We put in a pathetic performance in the easiest match of the bottom six and get hammered. I would say all is lost, we’re going down and looks like we’re going down in pathetic fashion! If you think anything different, you need to stay off the illegal substances.

This has been a constant theme of the Farke era, not just this season. Lack of focus perhaps?

I think Jim has summed it up perfectly. It’s the same problems every match, which starts with the team selection. It is universally accepted that either Vrancic or Leitner have to start with possession based style. Neither do but yet McLean starts every match. Reasonable player but not a starter every match at this level and doesn’t really suit our style of play. Our set pieces are dire, both defending and attacking. Defending due to the persistence with zonal marking and attacking because our only decent set piece taker sits on the bench every week. We concede an unprecedented amount of goals either just before or just after half time. This has been throughout the Farke era and not just this season. We have not come back from being behind in a league match this season, not even to get a draw. Everyone knows the issues with the lack of game management and poor use of subs so I won’t go into that.

Completely agree. Farke is not entirely to blame but that does not mean he is blameless.

Does anyone know why Farke went for this radical change of formation, despite having a style and personnel unsuited to it? We’ve not been far away from being a decent side all season and tonight was a great opportunity to play how we know and do it well. But we were so far from a decent side tonight. No one looked like they knew what they were doing. Had the season continued, off the back of an upturn in form, would we have seen this change? I expect not.

I’m not saying the situation is Farke’s fault but I think he has to take a large amount of the blame for today’s performance. He picked the team and left our only physical midfield player on the bench, despite picking less central midfielders than normal. This left us completely exposed centrally and over run in midfield. He played two up top but our game plan was exactly the same as it would be with one up. We had one less body in midfield but yet we kept trying to play intricately through the midfield. It didn’t work and we kept losing the ball in dangerous positions and had no creativity. We played two up top but had no width so created very few chances. The formation clearly didn’t benefit any of our creative players as they were all anonymous. We basically isolated Buendia and Cantwell out of the match. I could go on but the formation, personnel or style needed changing at half time. We were lucky to get in level but yet he changed nothing. Even the commentators were surprised there were no changes at the break. We inevitably went behind and yet there were still no changes despite the formation clearly not working and we then inevitably went two goals down. it was still a further eight minutes before anything was changed and even then it was like-for-like personnel changes, with no change to formation or style. Then it was three nil and game over. it seemed so blatantly obvious from the first 15 mins onwards that the formation wasn’t working. We looked tired but part of that would be down to the lack of possession after this point. We made Southampton look like world beaters but they’re an average team who had nothing to play for, who actually looked distinctly second best for the first 15 mins. Even the substitutions when made were extremely questionable in terms of personnel. In my opinion, the abject performance was largely a result of Farke’s poor in-game management.

I agree with you with regards to the shambles of the transfer windows. The point I’m making is that by losing tonight, our season is basically over anyway so it doesn’t really matter what happens in the other matches. Why does it matter if we get stuffed in the last 7 matches of the season if we’re already down? Seems a flawed logic to me. If a Tettey could’ve been the difference tonight, then he had to play as points on the board is by far the most important thing at this stage.

I don’t see the logic in protecting Tettey. We had to win tonight, surely we had to go with the team to give us the best chance of that? We lost, we’re basically down, so what are we now protecting him for?

I didn’t understand anything about what Farke did tonight. Lack of in-game management and the decisions or lack of, we’re completely absurd.

At least Trybull was involved. It’s not his fault people kept giving him suicidal balls and the rest of the midfield were anonymous.

Already been said but this surely means we just have to go for it. If the midfield and attack are firing, this becomes less of a problem. We’re unlikely to keep many clean sheets anyway given the nature of how we play so let’s just attack and if we go down, we go down in style!